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Yuk-Monkey
07-27-2010, 10:58 AM
From Twitter:

Rich Harden looking better: 6 IP, 2 H, 1 BB, 10 SO. 96 pitches. Topped out at 93. AAA hitters can't touch that changeup.

He'll need to throw about 6 more of these (which he can't as spy has mentioned) before I'm okay with him replacing Nippert Mathis in the bullpen. I'll take Feldman over Harden, thank you. I've read Holland is a week behind him. That's the only rehab--in my mind--that will benefit this team.

Brad Wesley
07-27-2010, 11:20 AM
paging spystud, paging spystud. must read. must read.

Player injured after giving pie to face (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Pie-gone-awry-Marlins-Coghlin-tears-up-knee-cr?urn=mlb-258344)

Chachi1004
07-27-2010, 11:51 AM
CNNSI saying Rangers are still interested in Roy Oswalt. How the hell do we think we can pull this off? Aren't we still
in Bankruptcy? Is MLB going to give us a 20 Million line of credit?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/07/27/cantu/index.html

dedalus
07-27-2010, 12:24 PM
CNNSI saying Rangers are still interested in Roy Oswalt. How the hell do we think we can pull this off? Aren't we still
in Bankruptcy? Is MLB going to give us a 20 Million line of credit?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/07/27/cantu/index.html

no fucking way this happens.

u2-horn
07-27-2010, 12:41 PM
paging spystud, paging spystud. must read. must read.

Player injured after giving pie to face (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Pie-gone-awry-Marlins-Coghlin-tears-up-knee-cr?urn=mlb-258344)

hope it doesn't affect our chances of getting Cantu

UTCRP
07-27-2010, 01:02 PM
Kirkjan or however you spell his name on ESPN said a few minutes ago that the Rangers are in the running for Adam Dunn, I believe he either misread the prompt or is completely making shit up. I don't know how the Rangers would acquire Dunn, and no one else has ever mentioned this.

BigOrange
07-27-2010, 01:12 PM
going to the game tonight. very excited to see lee pitch.

orange_xpress
07-27-2010, 01:20 PM
Hope I'm not jinxing us, but let's say Texas wins the West with the 3rd best AL record behind NY and TB. White Sox or whoever win the central with 4th best record.

Would we play the wild card team in that scenario? Or does the best record team have to play the wild card team?

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 01:21 PM
Kirkjan or however you spell his name on ESPN said a few minutes ago that the Rangers are in the running for Adam Dunn, I believe he either misread the prompt or is completely making shit up. I don't know how the Rangers would acquire Dunn, and no one else has ever mentioned this.

We already have a DH. We don't need to find a place in the field for Vlad while Dunn is the DH and vice versa. Unnecessary.

enjay
07-27-2010, 01:22 PM
Still, it hasn't stopped the Rangers from trying to wrap this baby up before they even have an owner. They are in trade talks with the Florida Marlins about first baseman Jorge Cantu, according to numerous reports in South Florida and Texas, and even after acquiring Cliff Lee, are privately saying they would love another front-line starter.

They've even looked into the remote possibility of somehow trying to acquire Houston Astros ace Roy Oswalt, according to FOX Sports.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2010/07/trade-traffic-the-texas-rangers-arent-done-dealing-yet/1

i find it ridiculous that the words 'rangers', "16 million' and 'oswalt' are still in the same sentence nowadays.

Ghost of LL
07-27-2010, 01:24 PM
CNNSI saying Rangers are still interested in Roy Oswalt. How the hell do we think we can pull this off? Aren't we still
in Bankruptcy? Is MLB going to give us a 20 Million line of credit?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/07/27/cantu/index.html
A couple of things:

1) The Rangers still have some money left in the budget this year. But if they wanted to live within that budget, it would probably require the Astros paying at least part of Oswalt's remaining salary. I don't know that that's necessarily a problem, but it would cost us an additional mid-level prospect (e.g., Matt Thompson).

2) I think that's more about next year. Without Harden's salary Oswalt wouldn't be that much of a salary hit for next year. And we do have the real problem for next year that we are short on pitchers that we know will be back with the organization. I'm not sure that Roy Oswalt (and the salary that he's going to earn) is the answer, but especially if the Astros are paying some of it that move would take away a lot of uncertainty for next year.

3) There is always the issue of the bankruptcy court's inherent powers to maintain the value of the bankruptcy estate. Which in this case means Judge Lynn can order MLB to extend an additional $20MM line of credit.

enjay
07-27-2010, 01:27 PM
We already have a DH. We don't need to find a place in the field for Vlad while Dunn is the DH and vice versa. Unnecessary.

dunn has started 255 games in his 12 year career at first base, including 66 last year and 93 so far this year.

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 01:27 PM
Hope I'm not jinxing us, but let's say Texas wins the West with the 3rd best AL record behind NY and TB. White Sox or whoever win the central with 4th best record.

Would we play the wild card team in that scenario? Or does the best record team have to play the wild card team?

From Wiki:


Within each league, the division winners are the #1, #2 and #3 seeds, based on win/loss records. The wild-card team is the #4 seed — regardless of its record — and is paired against the highest seed outside of its own division in the first round of the playoffs, while the remaining two division champions play each other. In the first two rounds, the better-seeded team has home-field advantage, regardless of record

So, Yanks are the one seed, We're the two, White Sox are three and TB is the fourth. So yeah, we would play TB with homefield advantage if the season ended today.

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 01:28 PM
dunn has started 255 games in his 12 year career at first base, including 66 last year and 93 so far this year.

Oh well shit. I was under the impression that he played outfield or something.

dedalus
07-27-2010, 01:33 PM
Fuck em, I say lets just keep the team the way it is at present. The only thing that would intrigue me is if we could swing a Cantu deal for a good bargain. As a certain individual said "dance with the one who brung ya...and Cliff Lee."

Yuk-Monkey
07-27-2010, 01:35 PM
Within each league, the division winners are the #1, #2 and #3 seeds, based on win/loss records. The wild-card team is the #4 seed — regardless of its record — and is paired against the highest seed outside of its own division in the first round of the playoffs, while the remaining two division champions play each other. In the first two rounds, the better-seeded team has home-field advantage, regardless of record

Wouldn't NYY play TB with homefield? I think in that scenario we'd play ChiSox with homefield.

CBT
07-27-2010, 01:35 PM
He has played LF (and RH I think). Not sure how much this year however.

CBT
07-27-2010, 01:36 PM
Wouldn't NYY play TB with homefield? I think in that scenario we'd play ChiSox with homefield.

Two teams form same division can't play each other in first round.

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 01:40 PM
dunn has started 255 games in his 12 year career at first base, including 66 last year and 93 so far this year.

I say lets do it then. Vlad, Hambone, Cruz, Dunn.....Holy FUCK.

BigOrange
07-27-2010, 01:42 PM
Wouldn't NYY play TB with homefield? I think in that scenario we'd play ChiSox with homefield.

did you not read the five words that immediately followed the first part of the sentence you underlined?

Yuk-Monkey
07-27-2010, 01:43 PM
did you not read the five words that immediately followed the first part of the sentence you underlined?

<--- Fail.

Beau Vine
07-27-2010, 01:45 PM
Oh well shit. I was under the impression that he played outfield or something.

Adam Dunn has spent some time in LF recently, but it would be fairly charitable to say that he "played LF."

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=lf&stats=fld&lg=nl&qual=100&type=1&season=2009&month=0

enjay
07-27-2010, 01:56 PM
Oh well shit. I was under the impression that he played outfield or something.

you can go here to see how many games he has played at each position.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dunnad01.shtml

ludosc
07-27-2010, 02:12 PM
From Wiki:



So, Yanks are the one seed, We're the two, White Sox are three and TB is the fourth. So yeah, we would play TB with homefield advantage if the season ended today.

This is exactly why we need to finish the season with a better record than the central division team...because A) we get homefield in the 1st round and B) we dont get the Yankees in the 1st round...

Ghost of LL
07-27-2010, 02:22 PM
As much as I would like to have either Adam Dunn or Roy Oswalt, I'm not sure we could get either without unacceptable depletion of our minor league system. Beyond that, I see a lot more Carlos Lee in those trades than I see Cliff Lee. Both are on the back-nine of their careers and make more than they're really worth. I don't know--neither one gives me a real good feeling.

CBT
07-27-2010, 02:28 PM
To get Dunn it's going to take a big name, Perez, Scheppers, Beltre (E), Profar. I'm not sure If I want to give up that either.

TheYoungHorn
07-27-2010, 02:35 PM
No Dunn.

Bring back the talk of Ty Wigginton for Arias. Please.

spystud13
07-27-2010, 03:02 PM
paging spystud, paging spystud. must read. must read.

Player injured after giving pie to face (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Pie-gone-awry-Marlins-Coghlin-tears-up-knee-cr?urn=mlb-258344)



Florida Marlins outfielder Chris Coghlan tore the meniscus in his left knee, and is headed for the disabled list after he face-pied teammate Wes Helms during a TV interview Sunday.

If Coghlan needs surgery, he'll miss 6-8 weeks.


If our prized '09 rookie missed 6-8 weeks (who just happens to fucking love these celebrations), then most of us, especially Brad, would go ape-fucking-shit...

Brad Wesley
07-27-2010, 03:27 PM
If our prized '09 rookie missed 6-8 weeks (who just happens to fucking love these celebrations), then most of us, especially Brad, would go ape-fucking-shit...

well, it would give arias some more playing time so we would have to battle it out for most pissed off. here's hoping wash tells BSE (best shortstop ever) to knock that shit off.

and i already weighed in on the subject but i don't want to tinker with this team any more. sure, oswalt is great but i worry about the cost to the minor league system. our management sent the message to the team that they needed. you guys are good, but now you have an ace. go win.

spystud13
07-27-2010, 03:37 PM
Not exactly surprising...


ESPN.com's Jayson Stark adds Tuesday that the hang-up between the Marlins and Rangers in a trade for Jorge Cantu is money. The Rangers are telling teams they cannot add payroll and that they'd need Florida to pay the remainder of Cantu's salary this year, about $2 million.

Yuk-Monkey
07-27-2010, 03:38 PM
From Newberg's entry (http://www.newbergreport.com/article.asp?articleid=1940) today:


C.J. Wilson has been responsible for charting Lee’s starts. Not by accident.

I'm sure many had already known or read this, but how fucking cool is this? We have Big Game constantly picking his brain, and we have our southpaw, power nibbling ninja charting him. Fucking greatness.

gtown04
07-27-2010, 03:49 PM
I don't want to sound like a complete baseball retard, but I'm lazy and was wondering what goes into charting a pitcher?

spystud13
07-27-2010, 03:53 PM
Type of pitch & location thrown to each hitter... If CJ sees something working for Lee against a certain opponent, he's likely to try something similar against them.

The Eyes
07-27-2010, 04:00 PM
Type of pitch & location thrown to each hitter... If CJ sees something working for Lee against a certain opponent, he's likely to try something similar against them.

you hit the nail on the head. scouts will add mph but it obviously isn't necessary for what cj is doing.

enjay
07-27-2010, 04:30 PM
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz30/knicabokerjs/washington.jpg

4321

spystud13
07-27-2010, 04:30 PM
I would f'ing love to have Bobby V back though...

enjay
07-27-2010, 04:39 PM
i posted that chart because wash in 3rd on the list so far; i figured that would open a gate for discussion.

but then i looked at the overall numbers and your texas rangers have an overall winning percentage of .475 with 2757 wins and 2855 losses. so that means we are 98 games below .500. if the organization can average an 88 - 74 record from this point on, we could reach even in 7 seasons.

if we can average a 92 - 70 record from this point on, we could reach even in 4.5 seasons.

fuck. i need to get back to work.

enjay
07-27-2010, 04:41 PM
I would f'ing love to have Bobby V back though...

yeah, one could wonder what he could do with the amount of talent this team has.

gtown04
07-27-2010, 04:42 PM
Thanks for the info spystud

spystud13
07-27-2010, 04:49 PM
Right-hander Rich Harden was back in Arlington Tuesday after striking out 10 and not allowing an earned run in a Monday rehab start. The Rangers will likely meet Wednesday and figure out the next step for Harden. Harden said he feels good and has been major-league ready for the last couple of starts.

In the wake of the latest celebration injury involving Florida's Chris Coghlan, the Rangers may be done with the post-game pie in the face.

Texas has granted minor league pitcher Geoff Geary his release.


Here is the Rangers lineup with Cliff Lee on the mound.

1. Elvis Andrus, SS
2. Michael Young, 3B
3. Ian Kinsler, 2B
4. Vladimir Guerrero, DH
5. Josh Hamilton, LF
6. Nelson Cruz, RF
7. Bengie Molina, C
8. Chris Davis, 1B
9. Julio Borbon, CF


I win!!!!

Ghost of LL
07-27-2010, 04:50 PM
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz30/knicabokerjs/washington.jpg
The funny thing is that if you switched Johnny Oats and Jerry Narron, that's probably the exact reverse order of managers that I would want for the Rangers.

spystud13
07-27-2010, 04:50 PM
Although Davis/Borbon 8-9 vs a lefty does not bode well...

enjay
07-27-2010, 05:03 PM
I win!!!!

now if only someone could get hurt doing the wave...

Brad Wesley
07-27-2010, 05:13 PM
i seem to recall gio gonzales shoving it up our asses last year. this should be interesting. i'm heading home and then to the yard to see my boy clifford lee.

spystud13
07-27-2010, 06:13 PM
Fuck me...


Teammate Julio Borbon told Blanco about it and Blanco said he's not sure if his club will stop doing the pies because of injury concerns. However, manager Ron Washington wasn't concerned.

"I don't think we're as rough as Florida," Washington said. "I think we do it gentler. Those guys do a great job of pies in the face."

Hey, who are we to argue with the manager? Blanco said the key is to be "soft" about it and not go charging in there. So we'll see if the team makes any adjustments on its shaving-cream pie celebration.

The Eyes
07-27-2010, 06:35 PM
Can I give Washington negative rep?

scomce
07-27-2010, 06:38 PM
Game about to start and out of Coors Light! This is a travesty

spystud13
07-27-2010, 06:40 PM
^^^ How far do you live from a gas station?!


My problem is I have a softball game, so I'll miss most of it!

scomce
07-27-2010, 06:42 PM
Like the Grizzly cans behind Hamilton in that interview w/ Emily Jones

The Eyes
07-27-2010, 06:46 PM
Dana Larson or Emily Jones. Who would you ...?

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 06:46 PM
Tuberville throwing first pitch for tonight's game. Allsome.

spystud13
07-27-2010, 06:49 PM
Dana Larson or Emily Jones. Who would you ...?

Emily Jones, without question!! But I know her husband, so it might get weird...

The Eyes
07-27-2010, 06:49 PM
Tuberville throwing first pitch for tonight's game. Allsome.

It will be the most memorable moment in Tech sports this year.

skipperj
07-27-2010, 06:51 PM
It will be the most memorable moment in Tech sports this year.
Lol.

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 06:54 PM
It will be the most memorable moment in Tech sports this year.

Hopefully we can top it!

CBT
07-27-2010, 06:58 PM
Game about to start and out of Coors Light! This is a travesty

check the flask under your seat

Beau Vine
07-27-2010, 07:06 PM
Dana Larson or Emily Jones. Who would you ...?

Hell no and yes.

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 07:14 PM
Lee with 15 pitches in the 1st? wtf is up with that?

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 07:21 PM
Wow, thought Young was going to be out there. 1-0!

spystud13
07-27-2010, 07:21 PM
2-out baserunning to home doesn't bother me, even though Suzuki should have had that!!

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 07:22 PM
Holy shit! Sooner got a souvenir there.

spystud13
07-27-2010, 07:24 PM
Although I'm actually shocked Vlad didn't get thrown out by 20' at home there!!

scomce
07-27-2010, 07:24 PM
hamilton has wheels. great hustle

J-Bone
07-27-2010, 07:25 PM
I love how hard this team plays

spystud13
07-27-2010, 07:41 PM
That's an embarrassing stat about Borbon!!


Get Gentry up here...

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 07:46 PM
Lets do this Kinsler.

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 07:47 PM
Well, shit.

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 07:53 PM
Holy Shit Tubs can't throw a baseball.

u2-horn
07-27-2010, 08:04 PM
Dana Larson has always reminded me of one of these:

http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/customergraphics/afghan/zara.jpg

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 08:11 PM
Hey Dan Beebe, go fuck yourself.

CBT
07-27-2010, 08:19 PM
Hey Dan Beebe, go fuck yourself.

this

Cliff Lee even runs on and off the field quick.

CBT
07-27-2010, 08:23 PM
"good eye" by BSE

CBT
07-27-2010, 08:24 PM
lots of LOB....DO NOT WANT

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 08:30 PM
nice catch by Hamilton!

CBT
07-27-2010, 08:30 PM
CliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCl iffLeeCliffLeeJoshHamiltonCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLee CliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeJoshHamilt onCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLee CliffLeeCliffLeeJoshHamilton

staley
07-27-2010, 08:31 PM
Good Lord Josh!

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 08:31 PM
Josh came up limping there. Hope hes fine.

DAGMAR
07-27-2010, 08:32 PM
That is the first time Cliff Lee has gotten Rajai Davis out in his career. Dude hits him hard

CBT
07-27-2010, 08:35 PM
Vladdy just looks a touch late on those fastballs that he was crushing a month before.

CBT
07-27-2010, 08:45 PM
FUCKING middle IF, wake the fuck up

Genco
07-27-2010, 08:45 PM
Well that's new.

CBT
07-27-2010, 08:46 PM
of course, it leads to a run

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 08:46 PM
goddamnit.

CBT
07-27-2010, 08:47 PM
nelson f'ing cruz

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 08:47 PM
holy shit, thank you Nellie.

Genco
07-27-2010, 08:47 PM
Now go get Lee a run. You guys owe him for that dumbass play.

DAGMAR
07-27-2010, 08:48 PM
There is our embarrassing fuck up of the game. Its usually on the base paths

CBT
07-27-2010, 08:51 PM
Gonzalez has good stuff

tjhooker
07-27-2010, 08:51 PM
Hamilton is going to get injured shortly. Dude, is fucking throwing his body all over the place. He can't stop himself. He is so fucking awesome in his mind he will not let himself do anything other than awesome shit with his body. This ain't good for his frail body. Just sayin'

CBT
07-27-2010, 08:55 PM
DAMN IT chris

tjhooker
07-27-2010, 08:56 PM
Seriously, isn't there a 1B in AA or A? I can't take Davis at the plate.

tjhooker
07-27-2010, 09:06 PM
come on score some runs for this dude now. he might start getting a complex.

Genco
07-27-2010, 09:06 PM
Happy Birtday kid

DAGMAR
07-27-2010, 09:08 PM
This game has a weird feeling to it

scomce
07-27-2010, 09:19 PM
CliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCl iffLeeCliffLeeJoshHamiltonCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLee CliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeJoshHamilt onCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLeeCliffLee CliffLeeCliffLeeJoshHamilton

boner

CBT
07-27-2010, 09:19 PM
I want Cliff Lee to be a Ranger forever.

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 09:20 PM
Lee is pitching his ass off.

CBT
07-27-2010, 09:21 PM
boner

yes....full homo

J-Bone
07-27-2010, 09:22 PM
I want Cliff Lee to be a Ranger forever.

I'm starting to forget what life as a ranger fan was like before Cliff Lee. He is fucking clutch. We need to do anything we can to keep him here

DAGMAR
07-27-2010, 09:22 PM
This would be a nice time for Vlad to get out of his slump

CBT
07-27-2010, 09:28 PM
Cliff Lee does not approve of this offensive output.

Genco
07-27-2010, 09:29 PM
4 starts, 34.1 IP and he's going back out for the 9th. It would be a damn shame if he doesn't get a W.

DAGMAR
07-27-2010, 09:29 PM
We are a jet stream homer away from a loss

skipperj
07-27-2010, 09:30 PM
Been watching on one TV w/ WSOP on the other, so haven't been keeping up with the thread. Clee is incredible. 12 SO!!!!!

Top of 9th. Let's finish this and get Lee the win.

J-Bone
07-27-2010, 09:32 PM
That play was deja vu back to the Angels game last week

skipperj
07-27-2010, 09:33 PM
13

http://1.jpg

J-Bone
07-27-2010, 09:37 PM
Cliff Lee is my hero

ludosc
07-27-2010, 09:38 PM
when the season ends, I think we need to hand Cliff Lee a blank check and just tell him to fill out whatever amount he wants...

Soul Glo
07-27-2010, 09:38 PM
can we please score and get the motherfucker a win?

dude's a fucking artist

ludosc
07-27-2010, 09:42 PM
atta boy Davis...now somebody fucking get him in...

J-Bone
07-27-2010, 09:42 PM
Chris Davis with patience at the plate? I must be drunk...

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 09:42 PM
Davis got on base!

mdmost
07-27-2010, 09:42 PM
Great decisions by Davis.

CBT
07-27-2010, 09:44 PM
great bunt by julio, let's pick him up

u2-horn
07-27-2010, 09:47 PM
How about Crash steamrolls the catcher for the win.

CBT
07-27-2010, 09:50 PM
oooooooooone tiiiiiiiiiiiiiime Ian

CBT
07-27-2010, 09:51 PM
cmon first row, help the team out

DAGMAR
07-27-2010, 09:51 PM
Ian Kinsler has cost us this win

J-Bone
07-27-2010, 09:51 PM
why the hell as a texas rangers fan would you not interfere with that foul ball??????????? FUCK

scomce
07-27-2010, 09:51 PM
Cliff Lee's expression: you've gotta be shitting me.

ludosc
07-27-2010, 09:51 PM
fuck you kinsler...

Soul Glo
07-27-2010, 09:52 PM
you stupid, stupid stupid motherfucker

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 09:52 PM
Fml.

dontlookatme
07-27-2010, 09:52 PM
GOD DAMIT

what the fuck Kinsler? 3-0?

Those fans should lose their seats for not grabbing that ball in the stands. WTF

hookem2102
07-27-2010, 09:52 PM
Seriously knock the ball away fans.

UTCRP
07-27-2010, 09:52 PM
Fucking serious kinsler? What an awful 3-0 swing with your leading RBI man on deck

Skipper
07-27-2010, 09:53 PM
Ian has really shit the bed today. Damn

dontlookatme
07-27-2010, 09:53 PM
GOD DAMIT

what the fuck Kinsler? 3-0?

Those fans should lose their seats for not grabbing that ball in the stands. WTF

DAGMAR
07-27-2010, 09:54 PM
Feliz has been terrible in these situations. Quick inning plz

Saint Austin
07-27-2010, 09:54 PM
Not sure who I'm more pissed off at, Kinsler or those pussy fans. Hope you're enjoying those great seats, fuckers.

gtown04
07-27-2010, 09:55 PM
Fuck Kinsler and fuck those fans, knock the fucking ball away at least

The Eyes
07-27-2010, 09:55 PM
I'm more upset with the fans who made no attempt to interfere.

Soul Glo
07-27-2010, 09:56 PM
fuck that. That's a motherfucking reaaaaaaal stupid swing by Kinsler.

Feliz scares the shit out of me here.

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 09:57 PM
Holy shit, that was too close.

J-Bone
07-27-2010, 09:58 PM
If that were me sitting there I would have one hand reaching up to bat the ball down and the other blocking the 1st baseman from entering my rightful territory as a fan

enjay
07-27-2010, 09:59 PM
how the fuck do you know interfere with that fucking play? jesus. stand up on your seat and put your shirt over that fucker's head. push his hat down. punch him in the throat. yeah your'e gonna get kicked out but you'll be my favorite fan for the rest of my days. jesus.

Soul Glo
07-27-2010, 10:00 PM
Lee is still talking about how stupid Kinsler is.

He just told the guiy next to him "that just doesn't make any sense"

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm so sorry Cliff.

DAGMAR
07-27-2010, 10:01 PM
FINISH THEM!!caps

The Eyes
07-27-2010, 10:06 PM
Come on Nellie!!!

The Eyes
07-27-2010, 10:08 PM
Ballgame,,,

ludosc
07-27-2010, 10:08 PM
Ballgame bitches!!!

J-Bone
07-27-2010, 10:08 PM
Nelson motherfucking cruz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

scomce
07-27-2010, 10:08 PM
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrowdy

HornsN04
07-27-2010, 10:08 PM
HELLO FUCKING WIN COLUMN!!!!
all caps

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 10:08 PM
Nelson fucking cruz!


Es tine!!!!1

CBT
07-27-2010, 10:08 PM
fuuuuuuuuuuuuck yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

hookem2102
07-27-2010, 10:08 PM
Pow Pow Pow

TexasIsBetter
07-27-2010, 10:09 PM
Nellie motherfucking Cruz!!!

gtown04
07-27-2010, 10:09 PM
That'll work.

The Eyes
07-27-2010, 10:09 PM
Whoooooooooooa Nellllllie

CBT
07-27-2010, 10:10 PM
yay pie in face, look how much fun it is!

DAGMAR
07-27-2010, 10:11 PM
That was a bomb!!

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 10:12 PM
Boomstick

Vic Mackey
07-27-2010, 10:14 PM
Fuck yea!!!!!!!

And still, fuck you Kinsler and those pussy fans for not giving Lee a chance at this deserving win.

hookem2102
07-27-2010, 10:17 PM
Was Nellie pointing at Lee as in "There ya go buddy"...or at Borbon for whatever it is they were chatting about ?

skipperj
07-27-2010, 10:18 PM
I had to pause because of various things. (Mostly my wife going to bed and me saying "uh huh, uh huh, good night, I love you too. (I'm watching this fucking game, so go to bed already....)". While it was paused, took a piss and put the dog out. When I cam back, almost opened this thread up. Almost opened chat up. Thank god I did neither! Great fucking shot. ("Yeah, I knew it was a pretty good hit.")

spystud13
07-27-2010, 10:34 PM
Damn, missed all the action!!!!


Which one of our IFs neglected to cover 2nd on their SB that led to a run?

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 10:35 PM
Was Nellie pointing at Lee as in "There ya go buddy"...or at Borbon for whatever it is they were chatting about ?

Thought about that too. Hopefully he was pointing at Cliff.

F18Mustang
07-27-2010, 10:35 PM
Damn, missed all the action!!!!


Which one of our IFs neglected to cover 2nd on their SB that led to a run?

Kinsler got the error.

spystud13
07-27-2010, 10:36 PM
Boomstick

That would have been great if he hit it off Bailey like in the commercial!!

DAGMAR
07-27-2010, 10:46 PM
Kinsler got the error.

Glad they didnt give it to Molina. That throw was perfect assuming there is a warm body on the bag to catch it

hookem2102
07-27-2010, 11:00 PM
Glad they didnt give it to Molina. That throw was perfect assuming there is a warm body on the bag to catch it
Pretty sure Josh or Tom said it was an E2 right after, but not sure.

u2-horn
07-27-2010, 11:06 PM
They changed it to E4

Jive Turkey
07-27-2010, 11:14 PM
allsome win, but damn Kinsler.

only Ted Williams, Barry Bonds, and maybe a few other players in the history of the game should have a green light on 3-0 in that situation.

the baseball IQ of this team is borderline mentally challenged.

spystud13
07-27-2010, 11:26 PM
Small thing, but... WTF doesn't Young take 2nd in the 9th after the IBB when they're not holding him on?! Take the base, & make the IFs throw all the way across the diamond for the 3rd out! We run when we shouldn't, & don't when they're handing it to us...

Yuk-Monkey
07-28-2010, 12:01 AM
This is the pitch tracker on the Cust strikeout in the second inning. Amazing.

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1087/cust2ndinningpitchlocat.png

bluto
07-28-2010, 12:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-PuxSN2NQ0 from a shaggy poster that was there, crazy shit

Drunken Mule
07-28-2010, 12:14 AM
And...the Halos fall once again.

BigOrange
07-28-2010, 12:23 AM
first game i've ever been to that ended with a walk off homer. so fun.

and yeah, kinsler was an idiot. i don't understand why hamilton doesn't hit third.

Vic Mackey
07-28-2010, 12:31 AM
And...the Halos fall once again.

Fuck yea! Red Sox came back. They know how to win there. Hoepfully they can keep losing to them and we can take care of that A's and keep putting more and more padding to our lead.

It's at 8.5 now, by far the biggest division lead for any division in baseball.

TheYoungHorn
07-28-2010, 12:50 AM
I love Clifford, the big, red Ranger.

So hard.

It was so much fun to watch him tonight in person. I am spoiled, seeing as two of the last three games I have attended were his starts, and the other was C.J. doing his Cliff Lee impersonation.

Wow. It just hit me, I have seen some damn good baseball in the past week.

NorthLoop
07-28-2010, 12:51 AM
I hate you

RottenBananas
07-28-2010, 01:06 AM
We really need more run support for Lee.

spystud13
07-28-2010, 02:22 AM
from a shaggy poster that was there, crazy shit

Who was it, you or someone else?


Great job regardless!

spystud13
07-28-2010, 02:57 AM
Newberg:


Yeah, he’s got one win in four Rangers starts. But he’s gotten 27 outs in each of the three he didn’t win, and 25 outs in the other one. You know how many batters Lee has walked in his 35.1 Texas innings? One.

And it was an intentional walk.


Sick, sick, sick!!!!

Longhorn Al
07-28-2010, 06:21 AM
We're pretty good.

Longhorn Al
07-28-2010, 06:34 AM
They did on Tuesday as Nelson Cruz make good on a bold prediction. There's that swagger again. Cruz's message to some of his teammates in the dugout before the 10th inning: "I'm going to do something special." He did, crushing a slider into the seats in left field for a walk-off homer and pointing to the dugout, with a knowing smile.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/columns/story?columnist=durrett_richard&id=5415934

Drunken Mule
07-28-2010, 07:59 AM
Yeah, Nellie showed a little panache with the point to the dugout and the bowling bit with the helmet. Pretty funny.

zosostein
07-28-2010, 08:01 AM
This shaggy poster was at the game as well. Greatness. From where I was sitting on the first base side, nelly's shot looked too high to go out. Glad I was mistaken

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 08:34 AM
Sick, sick, sick!!!!

spy, i thought that was a good quote as is this one from the same Newberg:


Lee faced 32 Oakland hitters tonight. And threw 30 balls.

Less than a ball per hitter.

Unreal.

That was one of the longest 9 inning 1-1 games I've ever been to. I thought both teams played hard and both pitchers were great. My only observation is that we made some really fucking weak outs on 2-0 counts and that pisses me off. If it's not your pitch, why swing? Just to hit a lazy fly ball that doesn't even reach the OF?

Also, Chris Davis kind of sucked last night. He had some fastballs to hit. Gonzales is good but he only throws 90mph. He needed to catch up to one of those. He had a nice walk in the 9th and that was a great AB, but the rest of the time I was disappointed in his ABs.

Kinsler has been pretty good this year but last night he was fucking terrible. It may have been his worst game of the year. He was clueless at the plate vs a good but not dominating lefty. He had 7 of our 14 left on base. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think a righty was up to bat when Coco Crisp took off and under normal circumstances it would be Kinsler's bag. You never know for sure but that was a little league fuck up. Pathetic. Bush league. No excuse. Horse shit. (if it was Elvis, fuck him for that)

As pissed as I am about the non-cover, the 3-0 swing in the 9th inning was about the most selfish, piece of shit decision I've seen from a Ranger this year and that includes Washington. You have a 3-0 count and the opportunity to load the bases for Vlad. With the sacks juiced, you force Oak to pitch to him and not throw a bunch of shit out of the zone for him to chase. I know Vlad hasn't been swinging a hot bat but Vlad would recognize the situation and force the A's to come after him (more than likely). Instead, Kinsler decides to be late and pull his front side out trying to hit a 3-0 pitch out of the yard. I don't mind people trying to be the hero and all that but when you go out of your way to do so at the expense of winning then you can GFY. Even if you decide to swing 3-0, would rather be early or late on the pitch?

3-0 count. One pitch. One spot. If it's not there, take it you sorry sack of shit.

Thank you Cliff Lee. Thank you Nelson Cruz.

Drunken Mule
07-28-2010, 08:55 AM
There's a little frustration that sets in when you can't scorch shitty pitchers like you should. Wuertz was extremely wild and could barely execute the IW. At 3-0, I'm pretty sure Ian felt like he was going to groove one middle middle with Vlad on deck.

The deal is, Ian didn't need a walk because nothing matters in that situation but the man on third- he needed a hit to win the game right there because Vlad will swing at any shit that flies up there (playing into the hands of a wild pitcher). The pitch was high, but it was the percentage play.

CBT
07-28-2010, 08:59 AM
Wash said he went to the mound and cliff said “Skip, is there any way I can talk you out of it?”. Wash asked if he can get that boy at the plate and Cliff said Yes so wash said go get em.


cliffleeeeeeeeeeeeee

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 09:04 AM
There's a little frustration that sets in when you can't scorch shitty pitchers like you should. Wuertz was extremely wild and could barely execute the IW. At 3-0, I'm pretty sure Ian felt like he was going to groove one middle middle with Vlad on deck.

The deal is, Ian didn't need a walk because nothing matters in that situation but the man on third- he needed a hit to win the game right there because Vlad will swing at any shit that flies up there (playing into the hands of a wild pitcher). The pitch was high, but it was the percentage play.

you have to be kidding me. i'm going to assume my sarcasm meter is messed up.

even the fans booed kinsler and he deserved every fucking bit of it. how embarassing is it to be booed by your own fans up 7.5 games and hitting 3-hole? horseshit.

Ghost of LL
07-28-2010, 09:18 AM
There's a little frustration that sets in when you can't scorch shitty pitchers like you should. Wuertz was extremely wild and could barely execute the IW. At 3-0, I'm pretty sure Ian felt like he was going to groove one middle middle with Vlad on deck.

The deal is, Ian didn't need a walk because nothing matters in that situation but the man on third- he needed a hit to win the game right there because Vlad will swing at any shit that flies up there (playing into the hands of a wild pitcher). The pitch was high, but it was the percentage play.
Drunken--there are a lot of things that are a matter of opinion in baseball. But there's also such a thing as baseball right and baseball wrong. And swinging at that 3-0 pitch in that situation (even leaving aside the ridiculous Kinsler uppercut) is flat-out crazy motherfucking baseball wrong. By loading the bases, you force Wuertz to throw strikes to Vlad--something no pitcher wants to do and something pitchers increasingly don't do. But with the walk-off run on third and the bases loaded, there's just no choice. Obviously, that's going to require some plate discipline from Vlad. But I trust Vlad not to go full retard. Obviously Ian Kinsler deserves no such trust.

And let's not forget that that at bat never even happens if Ian didn't have his thumb completely up his butt in the field. In a 1-0 game with Coco Crisp on first and two outs, you just have to assume that Crisp is going to try to steal. It's the only smart play. But not only did Kinsler not anticipate that, he just stood there while it unfolded in front of him like he was a spectator. That's little league right there.

And by the way, that was a tremendous throw by Molina. It was right on the spot and had Crisp out by two steps. Too bad Ian was too busy updating his Facebook status ("watching CLee pitch--good game so far") to catch the damn ball.

Going back to the stat that Lee threw 30 balls to 32 batters faced, he really does bring an entirely new perspective to pitching. If you can locate your pitches, then there's absolutely no reason to throw a ball. Just throw it on the corner. They can't hit it any more than they can hit a ball six inches outside, and it has the added advantage of being called a strike if the batter doesn't swing. It's an interesting philosophy that obviously takes pinpoint control to pull off.

skipperj
07-28-2010, 09:19 AM
8.5 games up on both LA and OAK. Unreal.

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 09:22 AM
And by the way, that was a tremendous throw by Molina. It was right on the spot and had Crisp out by two steps. Too bad Ian was too busy updating his Facebook status ("watching CLee pitch--good game so far") to catch the damn ball.

Another great point. Molina's throw nearly hit the right side of the bag and Crisp was toast (pun intended).

Drunken Mule
07-28-2010, 09:32 AM
Drunken--there are a lot of things that are a matter of opinion in baseball. But there's also such a thing as baseball right and baseball wrong. And swinging at that 3-0 pitch in that situation (even leaving aside the ridiculous Kinsler uppercut) is flat-out crazy motherfucking baseball wrong. By loading the bases, you force Wuertz to throw strikes to Vlad--something no pitcher wants to do and something pitchers increasingly don't do. But with the walk-off run on third and the bases loaded, there's just no choice. Obviously, that's going to require some plate discipline from Vlad. But I trust Vlad not to go full retard. Obviously Ian Kinsler deserves no such trust.

And let's not forget that that at bat never even happens if Ian didn't have his thumb completely up his butt in the field. In a 1-0 game with Coco Crisp on first and two outs, you just have to assume that Crisp is going to try to steal. It's the only smart play. But not only did Kinsler not anticipate that, he just stood there while it unfolded in front of him like he was a spectator. That's little league right there.

And by the way, that was a tremendous throw by Molina. It was right on the spot and had Crisp out by two steps. Too bad Ian was too busy updating his Facebook status ("watching CLee pitch--good game so far") to catch the damn ball.

Going back to the stat that Lee threw 30 balls to 32 batters faced, he really does bring an entirely new perspective to pitching. If you can locate your pitches, then there's absolutely no reason to throw a ball. Just throw it on the corner. They can't hit it any more than they can hit a ball six inches outside, and it has the added advantage of being called a strike if the batter doesn't swing. It's an interesting philosophy that obviously takes pinpoint control to pull off.

Kinsler's AB was a bonehead only in as much as Vlad could be trusted to lay off the wild shit, walk in the the winning run or just hit a bloop or something and end the game (no salami's necessary). Were they down by a couple of runs, I'd have been absolutely enraged at the decision. Ian gambled there and lost- fuck it. You've got to take a chance once in a while.

Crisp was not out by two steps. He'd have been safe most likely.

Lee is fucking superman. He should wear a total comic book uni with cape, mask and all out there every time. Incredible pitcher.

Ghost of LL
07-28-2010, 09:39 AM
Yep, Kinsler gambled and lost. Here's the point--it was stupid to gamble in the first place. There was just no reason for it. The best outcome he could have expected with that pitch was to foul it out of play. That's the absolute best outcome that was possible. There was absolutely zero chance he would put that ball in play and get a hit. Not with that pitch and not with that swing. Zero percent chance.

Kinsler was 0-4 up to that point with four shitty AB's under his belt. Vlad was 1-4 with an RBI double in the first. Yeah--I've got a lot more faith in Vlad at that point, especially when Wuertz would be in a situation in which he would absolutely have to throw Vlad strikes.

CBT
07-28-2010, 09:41 AM
Kinsler is only the second player in the majors this season with a foul popup on a 3-0 count in the seventh inning or later, according to Elias Sports Bureau (by way of ESPN Stats & Information). The only other one: Albert Pujols (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4574) popped up to the catcher on a 3-0 count in a tie game in the seventh with the bases loaded against Arizona in April.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4851378/ranger-reax-cruz-confident-he-would-win-it

DAGMAR
07-28-2010, 09:42 AM
Going back to the stat that Lee threw 30 balls to 32 batters faced, he really does bring an entirely new perspective to pitching. If you can locate your pitches, then there's absolutely no reason to throw a ball. Just throw it on the corner. They can't hit it any more than they can hit a ball six inches outside, and it has the added advantage of being called a strike if the batter doesn't swing. It's an interesting philosophy that obviously takes pinpoint control to pull off.

Out of the 30 pitches out of the zone, I dont think more than 5 missed by more that 1 or 2 inches. There were a handful where Kerwin Danley flinched. He is the lefty version of Greg Maddux (circa 1995)

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 09:42 AM
Kinsler's AB was a bonehead only in as much as Vlad could be trusted to lay off the wild shit, walk in the the winning run or just hit a bloop or something and end the game (no salami's necessary). Were they down by a couple of runs, I'd have been absolutely enraged at the decision. Ian gambled there and lost- fuck it. You've got to take a chance once in a while.

Crisp was not out by two steps. He'd have been safe most likely.

Lee is fucking superman. He should wear a total comic book uni with cape, mask and all out there every time. Incredible pitcher.

about the only thing we agree on is that lee is awesome. other than that all i can say is wow.

please watch the video and listen to the announcers. they are obviously stupid and don't know what they are talking about.

obvious shitty throw by molina, lol (http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10335379)

dedalus
07-28-2010, 09:45 AM
Rangers ERA after the All Star Break: 2.60. Tell me the last time you've heard something remotely close to that.

Drunken Mule
07-28-2010, 09:50 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4851378/ranger-reax-cruz-confident-he-would-win-it

Again, it's bonehead at any time except when the walk off run is at third. Kinsler expected a fat one and crapped out that time, but I like the spirit.

As far as the Crisp SB goes, maybe Elvis was supposed to cover there. I haven't heard anything on it.

CBT
07-28-2010, 09:51 AM
Wash said after the game that it was Kinslers fault. They gave him the error.

Ghost of LL
07-28-2010, 09:59 AM
Crisp was not out by two steps. He'd have been safe most likely.
I'm sorry for not responding to this previously because you edited it to add this gem after I had undertaken my previous response. But to get back to this--are you out of your fucking mind? Are you Ian Kinsler? Or his mom? Because there's really no other possible reason why you would be sticking up for his shitty play in either instance.

Take another look at that replay. It is clear that the throw is there in plenty of time. Worse, it's a damn perfect throw. It hits the ground about six inches to the first base side of the bag. Molina put that right where the fielder should be able to grab it at his high ankle a foot in front of the base and be able to do an easy swipe tag to get the runner. Of course, that assumes the fielder doesn't have his head completely up his ass. But that throw is exactly where you teach a catcher to put the ball on a throw down to second.

And, just for the sake of a stupid argument, let's assume you're right and Crisp would have been safe regardless. He wouldn't have gotten to advance to third on the error and Suzuki's base hit could have at least resulted in a play at the plate because it was hard hit and got to Borbon on a single hop. Of course, that would require Borbon not to bobble the ball, but in the different situation with a potential play at the plate he probably wouldn't have been as careless.

It was just a terrible play by Kinsler; a play for which there is no excuse and no justification. And it's a play that, coupled with his shitty batting, could easily have cost us the game. And if Cliff Lee decided to punch him in the mouth in the clubhouse, it would've been entirely justified.

Ghost of LL
07-28-2010, 10:01 AM
As far as the Crisp SB goes, maybe Elvis was supposed to cover there. I haven't heard anything on it.
It's a right-handed batter and Elvis is properly shading toward third. It's the second baseman's play the entire way.

Drunken Mule
07-28-2010, 10:02 AM
Wash said after the game that it was Kinslers fault. They gave him the error.

OK, well, in the videos I've seen, there's little chance of Crisp getting thrown out there. It did cost a base, although that would have been made moot by the bobble on the subsequent hit and he'd have scored anyway.

Ghost of LL
07-28-2010, 10:05 AM
You're Ian Kinsler's mom, aren't you?

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 10:07 AM
unless there is a switch on because you think there's a hit and run on, the 2nd baseman covers when a right-handed batter is up. when there's a lefty up, the shortstop covers. that's baseball 101. wash said it was kinsler's fault. check the box score, they gave the error to Kinsler on a "missed catch".

you like the "spirit" of swinging at a 3-0 pitch from a reliever you said the following about in your first post on this subject:


Wuertz was extremely wild and could barely execute the IW

not sure ron washington himself could come up with something like that. we get it that he was "expecting" a "fat pitch" on 3-0. who the fuck doesn't expect it? that said, the pitch wasn't "fat" as he expected...so don't fucking swing at it.

Drunken Mule
07-28-2010, 10:09 AM
I'm sorry for not responding to this previously because you edited it to add this gem after I had undertaken my previous response. But to get back to this--are you out of your fucking mind? Are you Ian Kinsler? Or his mom? Because there's really no other possible reason why you would be sticking up for his shitty play in either instance.

Take another look at that replay. It is clear that the throw is there in plenty of time. Worse, it's a damn perfect throw. It hits the ground about six inches to the first base side of the bag. Molina put that right where the fielder should be able to grab it at his high ankle a foot in front of the base and be able to do an easy swipe tag to get the runner. Of course, that assumes the fielder doesn't have his head completely up his ass. But that throw is exactly where you teach a catcher to put the ball on a throw down to second.

And, just for the sake of a stupid argument, let's assume you're right and Crisp would have been safe regardless. He wouldn't have gotten to advance to third on the error and Suzuki's base hit could have at least resulted in a play at the plate because it was hard hit and got to Borbon on a single hop. Of course, that would require Borbon not to bobble the ball, but in the different situation with a potential play at the plate he probably wouldn't have been as careless.

It was just a terrible play by Kinsler; a play for which there is no excuse and no justification. And it's a play that, coupled with his shitty batting, could easily have cost us the game. And if Cliff Lee decided to punch him in the mouth in the clubhouse, it would've been entirely justified.

With all due respect, LL, Ian's been a productive cog in this team for a number of years. I'm not showing blind loyalty- the failure to cover second on the attempted steal was bullshit.

Maybe he had an off night, but Kinsler will win some games and make a good account for himself before this season's over.

tokamak
07-28-2010, 10:12 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4851378/ranger-reax-cruz-confident-he-would-win-it

If I were Tony LaRussa, I'd be telling Pujols that he can swing away on any count, any situation, any time he wants to. Kinsler? Not so much.

Beau Vine
07-28-2010, 10:16 AM
As pissed as I am about the non-cover, the 3-0 swing in the 9th inning was about the most selfish, piece of shit decision I've seen from a Ranger this year and that includes Washington. You have a 3-0 count and the opportunity to load the bases for Vlad. With the sacks juiced, you force Oak to pitch to him and not throw a bunch of shit out of the zone for him to chase.

Oh, come one, Kinsler got the green light from the dugout on that, and it was the right call.

A single wins the game, and you know you're going to get a good pitch on 3-0 (and he did, he just didn't hit it). A walk really doesn't do you that much good there because you'll still need a hit to win because the odds of Vlad drawing a walk in that situation are nil. Vlad's 3 for 23 with zero walks in his last six games -- he's not in a good place right now.

tokamak
07-28-2010, 10:16 AM
So, what happened to Lee? I mean, he was an average-at-best pitcher early in his career. Got dinged up a little bit in 2007 and when he came back he sucked so bad that he got sent down to AAA. Then pretty much starting from opening day in 2008, he's like a completely different pitcher. He's been dominating for 3 straight years since then. He figured out something huge in that 2007-2008 offseason.

edit: haha, holy shit, I was reading his wikipedia article after I made this post and it says the Expos traded Lee, Grady Sizemore, Brandon Phillips and Lee Stevens to the Indians for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew. ROBBERY.

DAGMAR
07-28-2010, 10:16 AM
Again, it's bonehead at any time except when the walk off run is at third. Kinsler expected a fat one and crapped out that time, but I like the spirit.

As far as the Crisp SB goes, maybe Elvis was supposed to cover there. I haven't heard anything on it.

Right handed hitter. Its Kinsler job to cover there

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 10:17 AM
OK, well, in the videos I've seen, there's little chance of Crisp getting thrown out there. It did cost a base, although that would have been made moot by the bobble on the subsequent hit and he'd have scored anyway.

well i can argue that borbon would have had a chance to throw him out since it was hit directly at borbon and he might have made more of an effort to catch the ball on the run and in throwing position from not that deep in center field. because it was hit hard and right at borbon, maybe the 3rd base coach holds crisp at 3rd. not likely in a 1-run game against lee but borbon made no effort to throw out the runner because he was already on
3rd base. why was he on 3rd base already? oh, because kinsler forgot to cover 2nd base which is a little league mistake you seem to not care about or acknowledge.

CBT
07-28-2010, 10:19 AM
Oh, come one, Kinsler got the green light from the dugout on that, and it was the right call.

Wash said that he "had no problem" with Kinsler swining there. However, I suspect that just Wash covering for his player. Even though Ian didn't have the "don't swing" sign, he should known better. He would've gotten the same pitch 3-1 if the pitcher got that far.

Yuk-Monkey
07-28-2010, 10:23 AM
It is a step forward that Ian didn't try to bunt.

Beau Vine
07-28-2010, 10:23 AM
By loading the bases, you force Wuertz to throw strikes to Vlad

No, you really don't, because we're talking about Vlad.

If it's a tie game in the B9, and Vlad's up and the bases are loaded, and I'm the pitcher, my first pitch isn't going to be in the strike zone. Neither is my second pitch. I wouldn't even think about trying to throw a strike until it's 2-0.


But I trust Vlad not to go full retard.

I don't. Sort this by descending O-Swing%:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=5&season=2010&month=0

Vlad leads MLB in the highest percentage of balls outside the strike zone swung at, and it's really not even close. Shit, it's nearly 50%. Throw him one outside the zone, and it's pretty much a coin flip on whether he swings or not.

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 10:24 AM
Oh, come one, Kinsler got the green light from the dugout on that, and it was the right call.

A single wins the game, and you know you're going to get a good pitch on 3-0 (and he did, he just didn't hit it). A walk really doesn't do you that much good there because you'll still need a hit to win because the odds of Vlad drawing a walk in that situation are nil. Vlad's 3 for 23 with zero walks in his last six games -- he's not in a good place right now.

do we know he was given the green light from the dugout? i've seen us swing at 3-0 pitches on numerous occassions. even if wash tells him to swing, he doesn't have to. i've said on numerous occassions that vlad is a completely different hitter with the chance to drive in runs. he is MUCH more selective at the plate so i disagree 100% with swinging at a 3-0 pitch is better than taking a walk and letting vlad hit with the bases loaded against a pitcher who has already displayed control problems in the inning.

kinsler has been a productive player as a ranger. no question. but he is as prone to mental fuckups and getting pull happy as anyone in the bigs. so far this year he has been solid in terms of trying to go the other way and getting on base...for Vlad, Hamilton and Cruz. last night he pissed in the punch bowl. i would sit his ass for a game and play blanco.

enjay
07-28-2010, 10:26 AM
i like that we're arguing over circumstances in a game we won.

that is soooooo not rangers < 2010.

CBT
07-28-2010, 10:26 AM
Tommy Hunter in Times Square:

http://multimedia.foxsports.com/m/video/26657245/tommy-hunter-in-times-square.htm?pageid=319354

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 10:26 AM
beau vine, i don't disagree with those stats at all. i simply encourage you to watch vlad bat when he has a chance to tie/win the game with runners on. he is much more selective than you think and that is something i will stand by 100%. i've been posting this and noticing it since april.

J-Bone
07-28-2010, 10:31 AM
There's a lot of talk about Kinsler being a dumbass for swinging at that 0-3 pitch... but I guarantee there would be no complaints if he got the walkoff hit right there

Beau Vine
07-28-2010, 10:31 AM
Going back to the stat that Lee threw 30 balls to 32 batters faced, he really does bring an entirely new perspective to pitching. If you can locate your pitches, then there's absolutely no reason to throw a ball. Just throw it on the corner. They can't hit it any more than they can hit a ball six inches outside, and it has the added advantage of being called a strike if the batter doesn't swing. It's an interesting philosophy that obviously takes pinpoint control to pull off.

I was watching a game last year with my daughter where Jon Lester was just carving up some helpless team, and after an 8-pitch K, they showed where each one of the pitches were, and none of them were in the strike zone. She asked about that, and I told her that that was mark of great pitching, that great pitchers get hitters out by getting them to swing at pitches that they can't hit hard.

And so every time we watch a game and they show the pitch zone, she comments on how the outs seem to come on pitches outside the zone, and the hits tend to come off strikes.

And now Cliff Lee comes along and blows that out of the water.

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 10:35 AM
There's a lot of talk about Kinsler being a dumbass for swinging at that 0-3 pitch... but I guarantee there would be no complaints if he got the walkoff hit right there

i would still disagree with the call. it's one of those that's great if it works but really, really, really terrible if it doesn't. what's wrong with taking it and hitting with a 3-1 count? what's the urgency to swing 3-0?

Yuk-Monkey
07-28-2010, 10:38 AM
Tommy Big Game Hunter in Times Square:

http://multimedia.foxsports.com/m/video/26657245/tommy-hunter-in-times-square.htm?pageid=319354

http://yudhis97.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Cabelas-Big-Game-Hunter-2010.jpg

Beau Vine
07-28-2010, 10:39 AM
do we know he was given the green light from the dugout?

I don't, but I'm assuming that Roshington would have put his foot up ass if he had swung after being given the take sign.

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 10:41 AM
I don't, but I'm assuming that Roshington would have put his foot up ass if he had swung after being given the take sign.

i think ron gives his guys the freedom to do this. i doubt there's a sign, but i could be wrong. once again, this is one of those things explained as "that's how it is in the bigs" even though it's looked down on at every level of competition below it.

Beau Vine
07-28-2010, 10:45 AM
beau vine, i don't disagree with those stats at all. i simply encourage you to watch vlad bat when he has a chance to tie/win the game with runners on. he is much more selective than you think and that is something i will stand by 100%. i've been posting this and noticing it since april.

I'll believe you, but Vlad's as far away from selective as you can get, so Vlad becoming "more selective" still doesn't necessarily get you anywhere near Bobby-Abreu-selective, and if I'm the pitcher, I'm still not throwing either of the first two pitches in the zone even though a walk ends the game.

Ghost of LL
07-28-2010, 10:48 AM
With all due respect, LL, Ian's been a productive cog in this team for a number of years. I'm not showing blind loyalty- the failure to cover second on the attempted steal was bullshit.

Maybe he had an off night, but Kinsler will win some games and make a good account for himself before this season's over.
I don't want to be a dick about this. But I'm a lawyer, and it's just my way.

I'm not questioning that Ian Kinsler is a good player for this team. Hell, he's a friggin' All Star. But doesn't that make last night's performance all the more inexcusable? I mean, if it's Joaquin Arias that doesn't cover second, I say, "well, what are you going to do--Arias sucks." If it's Chris Davis that goes 0-5 with a ridiculous at bat in the 9th, I chalk it up to Chris Davis sucking. But this is a big series against the second-place team. A team, by the way, that we've had trouble with over the past couple of years. We've got our ace on the mound and we're at home. In short, this is a game we need to win. And to win, we need our best players to play their best. And Ian Kinsler played like absolute shit--undoubtedly his worst game of the year.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. I am saying that he had a terrible game when his teammate Cliff Lee needed him to be at least adequate.

More than anything, what upsets me is the nature of those mistakes. They're mental mistakes. They're mistakes that show a complete lack of situation awareness. Kinsler should have anticipated that Crisp would try to steal second and should have been looking for it. Kinsler should have recognized that a walk was desireable in that situation and should have been taking on 3-0. He didn't. These are the kind of mental errors that have become a hallmark of the Ron Washington era. They're mental errors that seem to go unpunished and uncommented upon. But they're the kind of thing that cost teams games.

That's the type of little shit that we were talking about some weeks ago. Little shit that the Angels always do and the Rangers never do. We have so much more talent than the Angels this year that we still should win the division. But it's those mental mistakes that happen every game that give me some real concerns about htis team in the playoffs.

Beau Vine
07-28-2010, 10:50 AM
i think ron gives his guys the freedom to do this. i doubt there's a sign, but i could be wrong. once again, this is one of those things explained as "that's how it is in the bigs" even though it's looked down on at every level of competition below it.

Everyone would have a "default," then a sign off that. I'm assuming that Ron's default is "green light" and he'd give a take sign to override.

Of course, "green light" on 3-0 does mean "if it's one you can crush." Kinsler's hole in his swing is down and inside, and that pitch was a belt-high (?) fastball, so I don't really have a problem with Kinsler's decision.

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 10:51 AM
I'll believe you, but Vlad's as far away from selective as you can get, so Vlad becoming "more selective" still doesn't necessarily get you anywhere near Bobby-Abreu-selective, and if I'm the pitcher, I'm still not throwing either of the first two pitches in the zone even though a walk ends the game.

and my response is that i seriously doubt vlad would swing at two pitches outside the zone with the sacks juiced and 2 outs bottom 9 in a tie game. vlad is not selective, but he's also not stupid and he knows they will try to get him to chase. i trust vlad more than kinsler 3 for his last 23 or not.

Drunken Mule
07-28-2010, 10:51 AM
i would still disagree with the call. it's one of those that's great if it works but really, really, really terrible if it doesn't. what's wrong with taking it and hitting with a 3-1 count? what's the urgency to swing 3-0?

Because then we're 5 or more minutes delayed from seeing Nellie's badass moonshot in the 10th.

skipperj
07-28-2010, 10:51 AM
I'm gonna need to make a special trip up to Arlington for a game this year. Usually I'm up there for work or some other family BS, but not this year at all of course.

Vic Mackey
07-28-2010, 10:53 AM
I really think they would be willing to walk Kinsler last night because they know Vlad is in a slump and will pretty much swing at anything he thinks he has a chance to hit. Bases loaded and bottom of 9th, tie game, you know he will be trying anything he can to win it, even if it means swinging at pitches in the next county.

ludosc
07-28-2010, 11:04 AM
you know, people who don't follow baseball at all, but read this thread, would think we were in last place with the amount of bitching that goes on in here...not that I wasn't wanting to put my foot through my TV when Ian fucked up (repeatedly) last night...just saying...

DAGMAR
07-28-2010, 11:04 AM
There's a lot of talk about Kinsler being a dumbass for swinging at that 0-3 pitch... but I guarantee there would be no complaints if he got the walkoff hit right there

I have no problem with Kinsler swinging at 3-0. I have a problem with him guessing he is going to get a fastball right down the middle and weakly popping up on a ball below the belt

Ghost of LL
07-28-2010, 11:08 AM
you know, people who don't follow baseball at all, but read this thread, would think we were in last place with the amount of bitching that goes on in here...not that I wasn't wanting to put my foot through my TV when Ian fucked up (repeatedly) last night...just saying...
That's not true. Anybody who's remotely familiar with Longhorn fans would know that the better our team, the more we bitch about its perceived shortcomings. It's just what we do, and it's why everybody loves us.

enjay
07-28-2010, 11:18 AM
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz30/knicabokerjs/ronwash.jpg

Brad Wesley
07-28-2010, 11:29 AM
That's not true. Anybody who's remotely familiar with Longhorn fans would know that the better our team, the more we bitch about its perceived shortcomings. It's just what we do, and it's why everybody loves us.

this and that and everything else LL has said today. i'm pissed at kinsler today, but know he's probably going to win more than lose. i still think we should have traded his ass when he had more value but that's irrelevant now.

Yuk-Monkey
07-28-2010, 11:56 AM
http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/3904/bestfansinbaseball.png

CBT
07-28-2010, 11:58 AM
I'd take major pride in knocking the shit out of an opposing fielder trying to get an out in foul territory.

Ghost of LL
07-28-2010, 12:03 PM
I'd take major pride in knocking the shit out of an opposing fielder trying to get an out in four territory.
Can somebody clarify the rule for me? I've long been under the impression that if the fielder goes into the stands then nothing the fans do can be "fan interference." So the fan can absolutely play the man and doesn't need to make a play for the ball.

So in this case, the guy in red with his eyes closed should absolutely be grabbing the fielder by the neck and raised arm and pulling him to the ground, since both the fielder's neck and arm are over the plane separating the field from the stands.

Correct?

Duck of Death
07-28-2010, 12:05 PM
dear bald dude in blue covering your head,

if those are your seats, sell them. if they are not your seats, do not purchase or accept tix ever again anywhere near the field of play unless you know the rules of decorum for those seats.

dear guy in red trying but getting moved by barton,

hulk up and hold your ground, pansy.

Regards,

Duck of Death

CBT
07-28-2010, 12:06 PM
Can somebody clarify the rule for me? I've long been under the impression that if the fielder goes into the stands then nothing the fans do can be "fan interference." So the fan can absolutely play the man and doesn't need to make a play for the ball.

So in this case, the guy in red with his eyes closed should absolutely be grabbing the fielder by the neck and raised arm and pulling him to the ground, since both the fielder's neck and arm are over the plane separating the field from the stands.

Correct?

That's always been my understanding. Just can't go into the field of play.

Duck of Death
07-28-2010, 12:08 PM
Can somebody clarify the rule for me? I've long been under the impression that if the fielder goes into the stands then nothing the fans do can be "fan interference." So the fan can absolutely play the man and doesn't need to make a play for the ball.

So in this case, the guy in red with his eyes closed should absolutely be grabbing the fielder by the neck and raised arm and pulling him to the ground, since both the fielder's neck and arm are over the plane separating the field from the stands.

Correct?

thats my understanding, though if you mug the guy you may get a visit from security. he could just stand tall, reach up, and catch it instead. i would love nothing more than to be in that spot, stand up and catch it above his glove, then show it to him before he can turn away. it would be my shining moment. hell i might hand it to him after the ump made the safe call.

Yuk-Monkey
07-28-2010, 12:10 PM
If that's MY or Davis going for that fly ball, the fans would be all over them.

Beau Vine
07-28-2010, 12:18 PM
Can somebody clarify the rule for me? I've long been under the impression that if the fielder goes into the stands then nothing the fans do can be "fan interference." So the fan can absolutely play the man and doesn't need to make a play for the ball.

So in this case, the guy in red with his eyes closed should absolutely be grabbing the fielder by the neck and raised arm and pulling him to the ground, since both the fielder's neck and arm are over the plane separating the field from the stands.

Correct?

Yep. No such thing as fan interference if the ball has broken the vertical plane of the seating area.

tokamak
07-28-2010, 12:29 PM
those kids in the 2nd row are making the best effort out of anyone

F18Mustang
07-28-2010, 12:29 PM
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3829/boomstick.png

Ghost of LL
07-28-2010, 12:31 PM
thats my understanding, though if you mug the guy you may get a visit from security. he could just stand tall, reach up, and catch it instead. i would love nothing more than to be in that spot, stand up and catch it above his glove, then show it to him before he can turn away. it would be my shining moment. hell i might hand it to him after the ump made the safe call.
Then security be damned--I'm playing the man. I don't trust my ability to catch a ball above a professional. I absolutely trust my ability to tackle a guy who is concentrating on catching a fly ball.

And by the way, if you were able to do that and then give him the double-barrel one-finger salute (that of course would be caught on television), not only would you be an internet legend, but Lewin and TAG might explode right there on the air just from the sheer awesomeness of it all.

Duck of Death
07-28-2010, 12:38 PM
Then security be damned--I'm playing the man. I don't trust my ability to catch a ball above a professional. I absolutely trust my ability to tackle a guy who is concentrating on catching a fly ball.

And by the way, if you were able to do that and then give him the double-barrel one-finger salute (that of course would be caught on television), not only would you be an internet legend, but Lewin TAG might explode right there on the air just from the sheer awesomeness of it all.

well i'm 6'3 and 260# and he's leaning over a railing. i have all the leverage in the deal. i'll try to keep the double rods in mind if the situation arises. i'll flip the ball to him high enough so that there's a good 1.5-2 sec of time for personal expression of free speech.

Duck of Death
07-28-2010, 12:42 PM
in summation:

1) catch foul pop up
2) show blue, show player
3) flip ball to player
4) keep up foreign relations X2
5)???
6) profit

note how acting timid or cowardly is not involved at all

Yuk-Monkey
07-28-2010, 12:51 PM
Rangers in on Fielder talks. (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/prince-fielder-rumors-wednesday.html)

I wonder if JD is just trying to drive up the price. No way this could happen, right?

CBT
07-28-2010, 12:55 PM
Man, I can't imagine what he's going to cost.

Yuk-Monkey
07-28-2010, 12:58 PM
You almost get the feeling that with all the bankruptcy drama JD is like "fuck it, I'm all in...."

Ghost of LL
07-28-2010, 01:02 PM
Es tine.

DAGMAR
07-28-2010, 01:10 PM
http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/3904/bestfansinbaseball.png

They were all distracted from the wave

enjay
07-28-2010, 01:14 PM
Then security be damned--I'm playing the man. I don't trust my ability to catch a ball above a professional. I absolutely trust my ability to tackle a guy who is concentrating on catching a fly ball.

And by the way, if you were able to do that and then give him the double-barrel one-finger salute (that of course would be caught on television), not only would you be an internet legend, but Lewin and TAG might explode right there on the air just from the sheer awesomeness of it all.

like i posted before, i would make a spectacle of it. push his hat down over his eyes. put a beer or a back of peanuts in his open glove. maybe punch him in the balls. pretty much anything that can be considered stoogesque.