But how is "Stop taking pictures" a lawful order when it is protected by the First Amendment? /Rhetorical question
But how is "Stop taking pictures" a lawful order when it is protected by the First Amendment? /Rhetorical question
Any idea how it's classified?542.501. OBEDIENCE REQUIRED TO POLICE OFFICERS AND TO SCHOOL CROSSING GUARDS. A person may not wilfully fail or refuse to comply with a lawful order or direction of:
(1) a police officer;
Who is yelling "why are you touching me" in the video? The ranger? It seems inconsistent with his mannerisms with his arms splayed out but if he was yelling that loudly, I can see how some spray may have hit the officer. If it is the officer who is yelling "why are you touching me" over and over, he needs to be off the street.
I believe it's the ranger yelling.
All the pictures were taken from behind the island of gas pumps.
There is no resisting arrest in that video. BS Trumped charge.
The officer is in the civilian's face so IF there was any saliva, it is the officer's fault.
Oh, on most of those, you beat the rap . . . but you can't beat the ride.None of those are lawful orders.
And I would willingly go to jail to prove it later to a jury.....provided you were my counsel.
That's their nuclear weapon -- they can cuff you and haul you to jail because they feel like it. That's it. You could be sitting down eating a burger on a restaurant patio, and a cop could just not like the way you look, and arrest your ass. He'll make up a lie about how it looked like you had a weapon, or he observed you passing a suspicious packet that looked like drugs (remember, "The suspect exhibited behavior consistent with a drug buy/drug sale/possession of drugs" is the magic phrase that lets them search you and your possessions and car at any time), or something like that. Then, when you say "what the $#@! are you doing?" in an annoyed tone of voice, he'll yell "STOP RESISTING!" and bang your head agaisnt the table to subdue you, because you are a dangerous subject resisting arrest and putting the cop in fear for his own safety.
So, you'll end up with an interrupted lunch, a bruised forehead, an afternoon spent in jail, and most likely, a not-guilty verdict -- IF you're willing to spend the THOUSANDS of dollars it will take to fight the charge that the DA will be relentless on, not because he thinks he's right or he thinks your guilty, but because the DA will stand side by side with the cop no matter what.
And the cop? He'll probably get a commendation for subduing a dangerous subject without backup.
I recommend the ADR-3000. Camera out the front, camera for interior, microphone, and it records your location and speed. Cheap, good for insurance claims - only issue is you can't easily beam the video over the internet to secure it should the cop decide to make the evidence disappear.
My own ride is a bit more advanced, and the VAPA will be releasing a video of the car once I get some time. I have four wide angle night vision cameras on the exterior of my car (each with a separate audio microphone), that get 360 degree footage around the car and a covert rear view mirror that has four additional cameras (one interior, one out front, and both driver and passenger side windows) and a microphone, plus an audio channel from a police scanner, plus a detachable wireless audio mic that I take out of the charger and put into my pocket in case I choose to exit my car for a total of 8 channels of audio and 8 channels of video that go into my black box 500GB DVR in the trunk (which also records GPS position and speed, if doors are open, left and right blinker status). That system is hooked into a wireless system and I can beam the data to a network server to secure it.
And I use an ADR as a backup. And I have a console mounted iPad with Qik on it as another streaming backup.
And my ride is bullet proof thanks to the Texas Armoring Corporation. Expensive, but it's a nice piece of mind and allows me the time to stream proof and call various agencies and email links of the video to news agencies in real time. Get the info out, get the calls coming in to the cop - but most importantly, it gives options to keep the situation from escalating.
My approach when driving is this: 1) I obey the law to the letter - I don't even do one mile over the speed limit because I want there to be no cause for any interaction with a cop 2) if I am pulled over, I put the wireless mic in my pocket and start Qik streaming. 3) I have my license and registration ready 4) I sign whatever the cop wants me to sign and I'll fight it in court 5) if the cop wants me to exit the vehicle and hasn't told me why he has pulled me over, then I demand to know why I'm being pulled over - if he admits (as one in the past did when I was too naive to record) that he has pulled me over without cause, or if he won't tell me why, then I will not exit - for my own safety. I'll tell him I'll sign any citation he wants me to sign. If that doesn't work, I'll let him know he's being recorded and show him on the iPad and explain that with the push of a button, the situation will be emailed out to my lawyer, news agencies, and his boss will be contacted.
That's the plan anyway. If the cop has a legit reason for pulling me over (I can make a mistake and miss a school zone like anybody else) then I'll comply to include exiting the vehicle if I must (which sucks, Mimms was a horrible decision). If I know the cop is lying (and I can review the tapes in real time), then I'm not exiting but again will sign whatever he wants me to sign.
ETA: Just saw your response. You're not talking about the law, you're talking about how cops routinely break it by lying and escape accountability. And you ain't lying. That's why video at least gives you a leg up, and even if you don't have the money to pursue a civil suit (which most lawyers will shun), you can at least use the PR aspect to embarrass them. In a few years I'm hoping our organization can add some other options out there.
Last edited by VAPA; 01-06-2012 at 03:43 PM.
The larger - more serious - point is that if we ALL do it, we castrate their ability to violate our rights. See an arrest going bad? Pull out your phone and record it. Tell the person next to you to do the same thing. Stop and record. IF THEY AREN'T DOING ANYTHING WRONG, WHY WOULD THEY CARE? There is safety in numbers.
Why? Are you like that guy that the cops kept $#@!ing with?
I interact with maybe 1 cop ever 3 years, due to speeding.
I am for evidence and my rights...but Wow...this is like flying a drone over you at all times. I am on your side, but just dont understand the need.
I know it seems like it's overboard and some think it's "crazy" but it just depends on your values and hitting a limit (and there is a trend I think people are seeing about those they accused of being crazy, actually proving not to be quite so). I got arrested as a youngster just starting off my career with a few other military dudes. Arrested in a bar for asking a cop a question, who came up to my buddy and told him he would take him to jail if he didn't clean up his language (and I might have missed it, but I didn't hear any profanity and it was just us talking in a group from a nearby base). My buddy said "yes sir" and I asked, in all honesty because I had just moved to Texas, "can you really be arrested for your language?" Cop said, "I wasn't talking to you" and I said, "I'm just asking a legal question." Arrested for "public intox" in a bar - I requested a breathalyzer test or a blood test and it was denied. Night in jail. I argued my defense pro se, took me a year, I deposed people and thought I had a really good defense hinging on the fact that I only had one beer that night, the bartender was legally required to not serve to publicly intoxicated individuals, he was more of an expert than the cop, yada. The prosecutor must have thought I was OJ the way he argued to keep the judge from dismissing it...but he dismissed it (cop failed to show).
As Brisket has said, it's all about the ride. I was young at the time and I was getting ready to deploy after that, and I wanted to sue the cop but it just wasn't convenient. That is one of my life's regrets and I could have done more to honor my oath.
Almost fifteen years later, yet again in Texas, I get pulled over illegally by a cop who says he pulled me over due to an out of state license plate. Without getting into specifics since the suit is still ongoing, I questioned his lack of cause, he orders me out, I get out, he arrests me and lies that he arrested me for "failing to signal a lane" change. Night in jail. Unfortunately, this one had negative consequences for me at work. If only I had hit record on my iPhone...the case would have been a slam dunk. He had no dash camera. Defense....cop showed...case dismissed anyway and now I have civil suit against the cop and spent a lot of money on a lawyer.
I have made the decision that if I know I've been pulled over illegally...I will not exit my vehicle. That's just it. If that means the end of me, then that's fine. I've reached my limit and I will no longer allow a government agent to deny me my freedom like I'm some $#@!ing slave. I love liberty and for me...that experience has got to be like being raped in some measure.
So I bought the car to de-escalate the situation because I am not going to allow that to happen to me ever again. The mod buys me time and with my technology allows me to keep a cop who is intent on breaking my windows and tasering me into submission from doing so most likely. I hope my car turns out to be a worthless investment, but I feel much better these days. I remember in another thread guys describing that feeling of dread when they see a cop, that pit in the stomach feeling even though they haven't done anything wrong. I felt that every time I saw a cop until I got my new car. And that feeling is the feeling of being owned. It's not the feeling of freedom. We live in a police state, and it's inexcusable in America and I'm at the point where I don't give a $#@! anymore, I will make sure that doesn't happen to me again. If I have to die to defend myself, I will.
Last edited by VAPA; 01-06-2012 at 07:02 PM.
Ya'll can hate on me. This is the third Eclipse I've owned and I've never purchased anything but. The glass was custom made and to my knowledge this is the only bulletproof one out there. It has electric shocking door handles, a second battery in the back, a "starter assist" switch up front that I push if my main battery dies so I can start off the one in the back, and a police siren system hidden in the center console.
But yeah I still look like a sissy driving it. But at least I drive exactly the speed limit. I'm raw like that.
So this Ranger is supposed to call me tonight according to his email...
VAPA, you recognize the name Marvin Heemeyey, don't you? Do you have a picture of him anywhere in your house? A tattoo, perhaps?
Don't confuse lighthearted ridicule as hate. It's a shaggy ethos.
Make sure to tell him about your car.
Wasnt there a rash of Aussie carjackings that led to some pretty bad ass spring loaded ankle breakers and propane flames about 10 years ago?
This $#@! is great. The shag never ceases to amaze. A tricked out $70k eclipse with video stream uplinks and electrified handles and bullet proof glass. Mofos cray cray. Post pics.
When Trent below says "no penetration" I can't help but think about the time his manager Jason (the guy at the end who says "holy crap") rode with me to test drive my new ride after armoring. The work was so good I thought about putting the moves on him. Not really. But he does have nice hair you have to admit. $#@!in' Mormon owned armoring companies. If you are in San Antonio check them out for a tour...it's well worth your time.
Last edited by VAPA; 01-07-2012 at 12:21 AM.
Just my opinion. Going to the extremes that you have gone to, to "free" yourself seems more like you have actually imprisoned yourself even more than you already were.
But, if it makes you feel better and it isn't hurting me or anyone else, then I say more power to you and I hope you're happy. Rock on, bro.
Mostly what I was getting at is that it sounds like you are living your life in constant preparation for the absolute worst circumstances of coming across what amounts to a small percentage of bad cops rather than simply just living your life. I understand you've had a few bad run ins with some bad cops in your life. I've had a case of that myself. That particular case was pretty expensive and it pissed me off to no end. But, in the end, it was maybe a year worth of hassle compared to the other 38 years of my life.
I just can't see myself investing so much time and energy and costs into being constantly worried about something that most odds show doesn't really happen that much.
But, much like my views on religious people, if it makes you happy and that is what you choose to do, and it doesn't effect me or the general public, then I fully support you doing it. I don't like it when people bitch, moan and cry about what I do for my own happiness and I'll be damned if I am going to do it to you.
It's not just the royalty that knows this, the armed agents also know it. They are aware, and pride themselves, on the phrase Brisket used to accurately describe the situation - you can beat the wrap, but you won't beat the ride. Another cute phrase some of them like is, "Sometimes there is justice. Sometimes there is just us." They know that justice isn't available to everybody. In fact, they count on it. Who the $#@! has the money or the time to stand up to prick cops? Most Americans do not. If you want justice, similar to the old Soviet Union, your party allegiance and those you know is much more likely to get - but then is it really justice?
Most know this dilemma can be avoided if you simply do what they want. What do they want at this point in time? They want you to bow down. Are you extra polite? Super friendly beyond what you might be with the Wal-Mart checkout lady? Most of us are. We know that this behavior = not getting seriously $#@!ed with by the cops. They may rationalize this behavior (if they are pulled over wrongfully) as being diplomatic, or civil, or polite but when we bust out that smile you don't normally carry, in the face of officer friendly....you are being subservient. Yessuh! Yessuh! /no racism, but you are acting like an Uncle Tom American. That is exactly what they want....they don't have to beat you, they just want you to humble yourself before them so they can feel powerful and in control. And most of us give them everything they want. But I digress, you were really talking about money and resource management. Remember though, it takes no start up money to be a slave. They will "hire" you just as you are.
Yes, 70K on a car is a lot of money. It is to me too. But not that much. What you call "huge amounts of [my] resources" fortunately are not for me.
But the question shouldn't be "is it worth it" for Americans to arm themselves with technology that aids in producing accountability in their public servants...it should be HOW DO WE MAKE IT AFFORDABLE for Americans to exact the accountability and justice they DESERVE from those they employ? Since character obviously won't produce government officials who care about "quality control" - we are quite simply going to have to do it ourselves. That will take creativity. My organization seeks to answer that question, and I hope will be on the leading edge of putting power back in the hands of the People in this issue. We can't all afford Dennis Rodman armored rides to be free from police abuse. We can't all afford good lawyers who will actually represent us (like they give a $#@!) against an out of control and immoral government servant (or get us off when we're guilty like OJ). The sad reality is "justice" costs money. So does injustice. But if you have no money, you get whatever the $#@! your government lord says you get. Remember that old nasty English soldier $#@!er in Braveheart who licked William Wallace's wife's face? Yeah, he will tell you what you get if you have no money.
We need to think about how we can change this reality. Change is going to be done by smart and fortunate people, with the character to not be lured by power into turning their intelligence into another yacht, to come up with smart solutions. For the rest it will take raising their kids with basic decent values.
Between smart/fortunate folks and parents who raise their kids with basic morality...I'll take the parents. They are the vanguards and keys to rescuing this nation. But it's going to take us all.
BTW, I love the interwebz. So easy to not recognize sarcasm. I wonder if that is why I have a firm and passionate hatred toward Skipper and Hank? Perhaps I just misread $#@!? Actually no, I'm pretty sure I hate those bastards.
It's your money to do as you please and as long as your actions remain purely defensive then get after it. It is when the sense of injustice controls your thoughts and actions do you become Bulldozer guy, IRS plane crasher. If that sense of futility is overriding, I hope you recognize the signs in time and get help.
VAPA, cn you post some pics of the armored Eclipse?
This $#@! is highly intense.
I love the people labeling VAPA as insane, when three pages back there's a story about a United States Army Ranger being arrested in his own country for exercising his rights.
That's why I emphasize taking measure to defend oneself, and using creative and Constitutional mechanisms to legally attack the problem of abuse. Technology is where the answer is at in my view. I'm not even remotely close to the bogey man you describe. You can't know that I suppose, but the actions I take and endeavor to take are meant to prevent violence and empower people so that they don't take the ill advised and desperate and wholly unproductive actions of your bulldozer and plane crasher examples.
But like everything else, when one person is different he is labeled crazy and suspected of whatever. When his message starts to ring true to others, then less so. And on it goes until it becomes accepted and normal. I see this happening on the Shag, and I see it in the real world. Dudes pulling six figures wearing shirts and ties, liberal and conservative, "normal" folks who tell me they are purchasing a plot of land they can farm because they think $#@! is going to hit the fan. Talk that just a couple years ago would have made them "tinfoil" crazy.
Last edited by VAPA; 01-07-2012 at 12:03 PM.
Football .. Basketball .. Baseball .. Other Sports .. RC Didn't Offer .. Gamboool
Varsity .. Hole in the Wall .. PCL .. Einstein's .. Nasty's .. GM Steakhouse .. NSAA
Bada Bing .. Can you help me with this? .. Shagslist .. Cloak Room .. Classics .. Bellmont