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Thread: Fun With The Tesla Electric Brick

  1. #1
    asshat MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm's Avatar
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    Fun With The Tesla Electric Brick

    Very expensive fun at that.



    http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-mo...design-problem

    Torbush

    Tesla Motors’ Devastating Design Problem
    Tesla Motors' lineup of all-electric vehicles — its existing Roadster, almost certainly its impending Model S, and possibly its future Model X — apparently suffer from a severe limitation that can largely destroy the value of the vehicle. If the battery is ever totally discharged, the owner is left with what Tesla describes as a "brick": a completely immobile vehicle that cannot be started or even pushed down the street. The only known remedy is for the owner to pay Tesla approximately $40,000 to replace the entire battery. Unlike practically every other modern car problem, neither Tesla's warranty nor typical car insurance policies provide any protection from this major financial loss. Here's how it happens.

    Despite this "brick" scenario having occurred several times already, Tesla has publicly downplayed the severity of battery depletion risk to both existing owners and future buyers. Privately though, Tesla has gone to great lengths to prevent this potentially brand-destroying incident from happening more often, including possibly engaging in GPS tracking of a vehicle without the owner's knowledge. UPDATE 2!
    NOTE (UPDATED!): The argument outlined in this story by Michael DeGusta that originally appeared on theunderstatement.com has been confirmed by Tesla with the following statement:

    All automobiles require some level of owner care. For example, combustion vehicles require regular oil changes or the engine will be destroyed. Electric vehicles should be plugged in and charging when not in use for maximum performance. All batteries are subject to damage if the charge is kept at zero for long periods of time. However, Tesla avoids this problem in virtually all instances with numerous counter-measures. Tesla batteries can remain unplugged for weeks (even months), without reaching zero state of charge. Owners of Roadster 2.0 and all subsequent Tesla products can request that their vehicle alert Tesla if SOC falls to a low level. All Tesla vehicles emit various visual and audible warnings if the battery pack falls below 5 percent SOC. Tesla provides extensive maintenance recommendations as part of the customer experience.

    — Ed.

    UPDATE 2: Someone is trying to smear the whistleblower who first brought media attention to this story.

    How To Brick An Electric Car

    A Tesla Roadster that is simply parked without being plugged in will eventually become a "brick". The parasitic load from the car's always-on subsystems continually drains the battery and if the battery's charge is ever totally depleted, it is essentially destroyed. Complete discharge can happen even when the car is plugged in if it isn't receiving sufficient current to charge, which can be caused by something as simple as using an extension cord. After battery death, the car is completely inoperable. At least in the case of the Tesla Roadster, it's not even possible to enable tow mode, meaning the wheels will not turn and the vehicle cannot be pushed nor transported to a repair facility by traditional means.

    The amount of time it takes an unplugged Tesla to die varies. Tesla's Roadster Owners Manual [Full Zipped PDF] states that the battery should take approximately 11 weeks of inactivity to completely discharge [Page 5-2, Column 3: PDF]. However, that is from a full 100% charge. If the car has been driven first, say to be parked at an airport for a long trip, that time can be substantially reduced. If the car is driven to nearly its maximum range and then left unplugged, it could potentially "brick" in about one week.[1] Many other scenarios are possible: for example, the car becomes unplugged by accident, or is unwittingly plugged into an extension cord that is defective or too long.

    When a Tesla battery does reach total discharge, it cannot be recovered and must be entirely replaced. Unlike a normal car battery, the best-case replacement cost of the Tesla battery is currently at least $32,000, not including labor and taxes that can add thousands more to the cost.

    Five Examples And Counting

    Of the approximately 2,200 Roadsters sold to date, a regional service manager for Tesla stated he was personally aware of at least five cases of Tesla Roadsters being "bricked" due to battery depletion. It is unknown if there are additional cases in other regions or countries.

    The 340th Tesla Roadster produced went to a customer in Santa Barbara, California. In 2011, he took his Roadster out for a drive and then parked it in a temporary garage while his home was being renovated. Lacking a built-in Tesla charger or a convenient power outlet, he left the car unplugged. Six weeks later his car was dead. It took four men two hours to drag the 2,700-pound Roadster onto a flatbed truck so that it could be shipped to Tesla's Los Angeles area service center, all at the owner's expense. A service manager then informed him that "it's a brick" and that the battery would cost approximately $40,000 to replace. He was further told that this was a special "friends and family" price, strongly implying that Tesla generally charges more.

    As a second Roadster owner discovered, the Tesla battery system can completely discharge even when the vehicle is plugged in. This owner's car was plugged into a 100-foot long extension cord for an extended period. The length of this extension cord evidently reduced the electric current to a level insufficient to charge the Tesla, resulting in another "bricked" Roadster.

    A third bricked Tesla Roadster apparently sits in its owner's garage in Newport Beach, California. That owner allegedly had a similar prior incident with a BMW-produced electric vehicle. He claimed BMW replaced that vehicle, but Tesla refuses to do the same. The owner either couldn't afford or didn't want to pay Tesla the $40,000 (or more) to fix his car.

    A fourth customer shipped his Tesla Roadster to Japan, reportedly only to discover the voltages there were incompatible. By then, it was too late, the car was bricked, and he had to ship it back to the US for repairs.

    The whereabouts and circumstances of the fifth bricked Roadster the Tesla service manager expressed knowledge of are unknown.

    No Warranty, No Insurance, No Payment Plan

    Tesla has a "bumper to bumper" warranty [Page 3: PDF], but the warranty text allows Tesla to hold the owner responsible for any damage related to "Failure to maintain the Battery at a proper charge level at all times" - the meaning of "proper charge" doesn't appear to be specifically defined. Tesla CEO Elon Musk, Vice President of Sales & Ownership Experience George Blankenship, and Vice President of Worldwide Service J. Joost de Vries all became directly involved in at least one "brick" situation, with de Vries stating in writing that since Tesla's documentation and warranty "identify in clear language to keep the Roadster on external power when parked" the decision to decline any warranty or financial relief was "correct and justified".[2]

    Unfortunately for current and future Tesla owners who encounter this problem, it's also not covered by normal automobile insurance policies. This makes the situation almost unique in modern car-ownership: a $40,000 or more exposure that cannot be insured. After all, car insurance is designed to protect owners and drivers even when they are neglectful or at fault. The affected customers probably would have been in a better financial situation if they'd accidentally rolled their Teslas off a cliff, as insurance would generally cover much of those costs.

    Due to Tesla batteries naturally decaying over time, Tesla offered Roadster customers a $12,000 "battery replacement program". This program is intended to replace a Roadster battery with a new one seven years after purchase. When asked, the Tesla service manager said even if owners had paid in advance for this replacement battery program, they would not be allowed to use it to replace an accidentally discharged battery - they would have to pay the full $40,000-plus cost.[3]

    The Santa Barbara owner was also informed that no other financing or payment plan would be made available to pay for the replacement battery, and that he needed to either pay in full or remove his dead vehicle from the Tesla service center as soon as possible.

    Understated Warnings to Owners

    With such a large price tag for a bricked vehicle, it would be reasonable to expect Tesla to go to great lengths to ensure their customers were fully aware of the severity of battery discharge. Instead it seems that Tesla, while working to make it clear their vehicles should always be left plugged in, also appears to have focused on trying not to spook their current and future customers about the potentially severe ramifications of complete battery discharge.

    The Tesla Roadster Owners Manual begins with several "Important Notes About Your Vehicle" [Page 1-2: PDF], none of which make any mention of battery discharge. In Chapter 5 of the manual, where vehicle charging is addressed, Tesla states that the vehicle is "designed to be plugged in" and that allowing the charge level to fall to 0% "can permanently damage the Battery." [Page 5-2: PDF] It does not specify that a completely discharged battery may need to be replaced, entirely at the owner's expense, at a cost that could be the majority of the value of the vehicle.

    Tesla did begin handing out a "Battery Reminder Card" [PDF] when a Roadster was brought in for servicing. However, the card gently and cheerfully prods owners to "Remember - a connected Roadster is a happy Roadster!" with no mention of the possible consequences of a complete discharge.

    There is no warning regarding battery discharge on the actual power port of the vehicle itself, where a gas-powered car often contains warnings about issues like the use of leaded gasoline in an unleaded vehicle. There is also no warning on the power port or in the Roadster Owner's manual regarding the use of extension cords.

    What About The Model S?

    It's not just the Roadster - Tesla's service manager stated the upcoming Model S definitely shares the Roadster's discharge problem, describing it as fundamental to the battery technology. Another Tesla employee concurred, saying it would be "neglect" to leave the vehicle unplugged when it's parked. This fits with statements by Kurt Kelty, Tesla's Director of Battery Technology, that the Model S uses the same battery technology as the Roadster. Yet on Tesla's Model S "Facts" page under "Charging", potential buyers are presented with only the lenient guideline that "Tesla recommends plugging your Model S in each night or when convenient."

    Assuming the Model S has the same battery vulnerability as the Roadster, Tesla's Model S FAQ is woefully incomplete at best. In the FAQ, Tesla explicitly addresses the question of what happens when their car is parked and not charging:

    If Model S is parked and not charging, will the battery lose its charge?
    Loss of charge at rest is minimal. For example, Model S owners can park at the airport for extended vacations without plugging in.

    That's the answer in its entirety - nothing at all about the eventual, inevitable, catastrophic battery failure that the Tesla service manager seemed certain of.

    Even the minimal loss of charge statement is highly suspect. The Roadster's owner manual [Page 5-2, Column 3: PDF] states that a fully charged car can be expected to lose 50% of its charge in just 7 days, clearly not a "minimal" amount. As far as leaving the car for an "extended vacation", the manual [Page 5-3, Column 1: PDF] actually states that vehicles left for more than two weeks should not only be plugged in, but plugged into a special $1,950 (plus installation) Tesla High Power Connector that is not generally available at airports or elsewhere at present. Additionally, leaving a Tesla Roadster at the airport for an extended vacation would seemingly invalidate the warranty which says the battery "should never remain continuously unplugged for an extended period of time, regardless of the state of charge" [Page 5, Column 2: PDF] - practically the exact opposite of Tesla's Model S FAQ answer.

    The Model S battery could be very different from that of the Roadster. If so, however, this would mean not only that the Tesla employees are wrong, but that Tesla has made radical improvements in these areas but has decided not to actively promote them or even mention them prominently on their website. Barring that improbable scenario, Tesla's marketing appears to be less than entirely forthcoming on this key issue.

    Tesla's Unorthodox Prevention Measures

    While customer and marketing communication about charging are focused on gentle reminders, behind the scenes Tesla has seemingly been scrambling to try to ensure existing owners don't "brick" their cars.

    After the first 500 Roadsters, Tesla added a remote monitoring system to the vehicles, connecting through AT&T's GSM-based cellular network. Tesla uses this system to monitor various vehicle metrics including the battery charge levels, as long as the vehicle has the GSM connection activated[4] and is within range of AT&T's network. According to the Tesla service manager, Tesla has used this information on multiple occasions to proactively telephone customers to warn them when their Roadster's battery was dangerously low.

    In at least one case, Tesla went even further. The Tesla service manager admitted that, unable to contact an owner by phone, Tesla remotely activated a dying vehicle's GPS to determine its location and then dispatched Tesla staff to go there. It is not clear if Tesla had obtained this owner's consent to allow this tracking[5], or if the owner is even aware that his vehicle had been tracked. Further, the service manager acknowledged that this use of tracking was not something they generally tell customers about.

    Going to these lengths could be seen as customer service, but it would also seem to fit with an internal awareness at Tesla of the gravity of the "bricking" problem, and the potentially disastrous public relations and sales fallout that could result from it becoming more broadly known.

    Coming Soon: More Customers, More Problems

    Tesla produced 2,500 Roadsters, but it plans to make 25,000 Model S vehicles by the end of 2013. This vastly increases the possible number of accidental "bricking" incidents. At the same time, the Model S pricing starts at $49,900 (after US tax incentives), broadening the market to households of far more modest means than the owners of the $109,000 and up Roadster. This in turn makes it even less likely that Tesla buyers will have the necessary tens of thousands of dollars to spare if they ever allow their battery to fully discharge.

    Tesla has officially stated that "it is impossible to accurately forecast the cost of future battery replacements", but the Tesla service manager said he expected the Model S battery to cost even more than the Roadster's. If true, it would mean that a Model S battery failure could essentially render the car valueless.

    Tesla is actively targeting the mass market, with CEO Elon Musk recently touting the Model X as "the killer app for families." But as things stand today, families who fail to keep their car charged could end up unexpectedly forced to continue making payments on an inoperable and worthless vehicle. That would be a killer.

    The Bottom Line

    Tesla Motors is a public company that's valued at over $3.5 billion and has received $465 million in US government loans, all on the back of the promise that it can deliver a real world, all-electric car to the mainstream market. Yet today, in my opinion, Tesla seems to be knowingly selling cars that can turn into bricks without any financial protection for the customer.

    Until there's a fundamental change in Tesla's technology, it would seem the only other option for Tesla is to help its customers insure against this problem. As consumers become aware that a Tesla is possibly just a long trip, a bad extension cord, or an accidental unplugging away from disaster, how many will choose to gamble $40,000 on that not happening? Would you?

    This post was originally published by Michael DeGusta at theunderstatement.com on February 21st, 2012 and has been republished with permission. Follow him on Twitter here.

    Notes

    Other All-Electric Vehicles

    While discharge issues are inherent to lithium-ion battery technology, it's beyond the scope of this article to address the ramifications for electric vehicles in general. Regardless, a company's battery management system and obviously their marketing and handling of the situation can vary.

    The Nissan Leaf is currently the only other widely available all-electric vehicle in the US. A Nissan Leaf sales specialist was emphatic that their vehicle did not have the discharge problem. The Leaf warranty [Full PDF: Page 9] does however state that the owner must plug in the vehicle within 14 days of reaching zero charge, which does appear to differ from Tesla's manual that says the owner must do it immediately. [Page 5-2, Column 1: PDF]

    Personal Note

    I've paid $5,000 for a Tesla Model X reservation. Either these issues will be resolved by the time it's ready, Tesla will be gone by then, or I'll most likely give up my spot and get a refund. No one has paid me to write this article. TheUnderstatement.com has no ads or sponsors.

    1. A written Tesla report on one "bricked" Roadster documents that the vehicle went from 4% full to complete discharge in seven days.

    2. Mr. de Vries also pointed out that at below 4% charge the car displays a visual "Plug me in" warning on its screen with an accompanying audible alert. This would seemingly only help owners who are actually sitting in the car.

    3. This would seem consistent with the language of the agreement [PDF], which actually stipulates that the replacement battery cannot be used while the car is still under warranty.

    4. Roadster owners have the ability to turn the GSM connection on and off via the vehicle's settings screen.

    5. There appears to be no reference to Tesla having the ability to track a vehicle's location at its discretion in either the data recording section of the Roadster Owners Manual [Page 1-2, Column 2: PDF] or the addendum that covers the GSM connection [Page 9: PDF].


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    Gee, thanks a lot Obama.

  2. #2
    asshat hornimal grows his own roses hornimal grows his own roses hornimal grows his own roses hornimal grows his own roses hornimal grows his own roses hornimal grows his own roses hornimal grows his own roses hornimal grows his own roses hornimal grows his own roses hornimal grows his own roses hornimal grows his own roses hornimal's Avatar
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    All automobiles require some level of owner care. For example, combustion vehicles require regular oil changes or the engine will be destroyed. Electric vehicles should be plugged in and charging when not in use for maximum performance. All batteries are subject to damage if the charge is kept at zero for long periods of time. However, Tesla avoids this problem in virtually all instances with numerous counter-measures. Tesla batteries can remain unplugged for weeks (even months), without reaching zero state of charge. Owners of Roadster 2.0 and all subsequent Tesla products can request that their vehicle alert Tesla if SOC falls to a low level. All Tesla vehicles emit various visual and audible warnings if the battery pack falls below 5 percent SOC. Tesla provides extensive maintenance recommendations as part of the customer experience.
    do this, don't do that, can't you read the $#@!in' signs?

  3. #3
    asshat Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornimal View Post
    do this, don't do that, can't you read the $#@!in' signs?
    So I got me a pen and paper, and I made up my own $#@!ing sign.
    Thank you Lord for thinking of me. I'm alive and doing fine.

  4. #4
    asshat Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Kyrie Eleison's Avatar
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    Obama?

    wut...?

  5. #5
    Banned linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux
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    A blog posting recently made the rounds regarding a fatal design flaw in the Tesla Roadster. The blogger claims that some Roadsters have become "bricks", with non-functioning batteries requiring a $40,000 fix. The blog is dead wrong about most of the technical facts it claims to be reporting. Don't blame the blogger, however: he's only participating in a trend of misinformation about electric vehicles that is starting to impact the reputation of the fledgling industry.

    Here's the primary fact that the blogger in question doesn't understand: the Tesla battery pack is not a battery. It's a collection of more than 8,000 individual batteries. Each of those cells is independently managed. So there's only two ways for the entire battery pack to fail. The first is if all 8,000 cells individually fail (highly unlikely except in the case of something catastrophic like a fire). The second failure mechanism is if the battery management system tells the pack to shut down because it has detected a dangerous situation, such as an extremely low depth of discharge. If that's the case, all that needs to be done is to tow the vehicle to a charger, recharge the batteries and then reboot the battery management system. This is the most likely explanation for the five "bricks" that the blogger claims to have heard about. They probably aren't actually bricks, but cars in need of servicing.

    Another error on the part of the blogger is the claim that if the cars discharge fully, the battery packs will be damaged. This is blatantly false. The battery management system of the Tesla Roadster keeps the battery from being discharged to a damagingly low state of charge under normal driving conditions. It's true that a full discharge to zero percent state of charge can potentially be damaging to a battery. However the battery management system of the Roadster won't allow the car to reach that low level of charge.

    There is a fundamental problem when any rechargeable battery is discharged and then left to sit for months. Any boat owner understands that that's why you plug in a trickle charger when the craft is put into storage. The same should be done for any electric vehicle. However, to imply that the Tesla Roadster has a fundamental design flaw because of the nature of electrochemistry is like saying that Chrysler has a fundamental design flaw because its engines will be damaged if you drain all the oil out and then drive cross-country.

    The blogger in question is, unfortunately, not a single voice in the wilderness. He's part of a widespread trend throughout some parts of the blogosphere and some parts of traditional media to politicize and demonize the electric vehicle. This trend has in turn damaged the general reputation of the automakers taking risks in building and selling these vehicles. This isn't the only problem that electric vehicles have today (overpricing and bad choreography have done their damage too). But there's an antidote for this type of misinformation: confronting it with facts.
    http://www.itworld.com/it-management...se-scare-tesla
    Thank you Obama the Messiah for every advance related to green tech.

  6. #6
    asshat TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland Shaggy Gold Club TexonLongIsland's Avatar
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    This trend has in turn damaged the general reputation of the automakers taking risks in building and selling these vehicles. This isn't the only problem that electric vehicles have today (overpricing and bad choreography have done their damage too). But there's an antidote for this type of misinformation: confronting it with facts.
    not that much risk when the government is shoveling taxpayer dollars to your company hand over fist, plus the cars are seriously underpriced, not overpriced.

    * and I'm seriously considering putting a deposit on a Tesla Model S as a station car.

  7. #7
    asshat bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? bozo_casanova's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I could solve the bricking problem, and I'm not an engineer, either.

    Elon Musk, call me!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Superhero View Post
    So I got me a pen and paper, and I made up my own $#@!ing sign.
    Thank you Lord for thinking of me. I'm alive and doing fine.
    And the sign said you gotta have a membership card to get inside . . .

  9. #9
    Banned mini-baller grows his own roses mini-baller grows his own roses mini-baller grows his own roses mini-baller grows his own roses mini-baller grows his own roses mini-baller grows his own roses mini-baller grows his own roses mini-baller grows his own roses mini-baller grows his own roses mini-baller grows his own roses mini-baller grows his own roses
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    Silly electric cars

  10. #10
    Dumb $#@!s - put a trailer hitch on that sumbitch...


  11. #11
    Solar panels and a trickle charger.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by equinox View Post
    Solar panels and a trickle charger.
    No nightime cruisin' for you.

  13. #13
    Usually Posts GIFs hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785's Avatar
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    I still want one, but that is a pretty serious problem.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Armybrat View Post
    Dumb $#@!s - put a trailer hitch on that sumbitch...

    Or just put that inside the car....Volt or VIA Motors trucks.

    VIA is developing a sweet plug-in hybrid truck with an inverter that will allow it to be a portable generator

  15. #15
    asshat Blotto is a rep whore. Blotto is a rep whore. Blotto is a rep whore. Blotto is a rep whore. Blotto is a rep whore. Blotto is a rep whore. Blotto is a rep whore. Blotto is a rep whore. Blotto is a rep whore. Blotto is a rep whore. Blotto is a rep whore.
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    Seems like a solid company to short.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Armybrat View Post
    No nightime cruisin' for you.
    The sole purpose of the solar panels/trickle charger would be to prevent the battery from discharging completely.

  17. #17
    asshat MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornfan785 View Post
    I still want one, but that is a pretty serious problem.
    yeah I want one too

    saw one in miami lakes bout 2mo ago. beautiful and utterly silent. it wasnt bricked

  18. #18
    Usually Posts GIFs hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPhlegm View Post
    yeah I want one too

    saw one in miami lakes bout 2mo ago. beautiful and utterly silent. it wasnt bricked
    There's one in Austin that I've seen a number of times. The guy must work around East 6th street because that's the only place I've seen it.

  19. #19
    Banned linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux
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    There is no problem, aside from letting it sit in storage uncharged for months on end, and even that can be solved with a very small current from an outlet.

  20. #20
    asshat CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night.
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    So the fact remains, battery goes to zero and it's $40k?

    100% charge to 0 in 11 weeks. Wonder why they don't have some sort of trickle charger built in.

  21. #21
    asshat Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by equinox View Post
    Solar panels and a trickle charger.
    Solar panels won't help a car parked in a dark garage.

  22. #22
    asshat miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito Shaggy Gold Club miguelito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Fairway View Post
    Or just put that inside the car....Volt or VIA Motors trucks.

    VIA is developing a sweet plug-in hybrid truck with an inverter that will allow it to be a portable generator
    you don't say...



  23. #23
    asshat CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhero View Post
    Solar panels won't help a car parked in a dark garage.
    What about just putting a little crank handle generator on the bumper? You could hire homeless chicks to turn your crank for a dollar.

  24. #24
    asshat Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Superhero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CO_Gator View Post
    What about just putting a little crank handle generator on the bumper? You could hire homeless chicks to turn your crank for a dollar.
    That sounds dirty.

    For an extra dollar, you can have them wipe your windshield with newspaper as well.

  25. #25
    bunghole Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed slams and goes hard. Doomed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornfan785 View Post
    There's one in Austin that I've seen a number of times. The guy must work around East 6th street because that's the only place I've seen it.
    I saw it on south lamar, grey haired guy in a white one.

  26. #26
    asshat MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MrPhlegm's Avatar
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    very stupid of tesla to not put a little cheap ass battry that the software would switch to when the big un get's down to 10% or less, to keep the electronics going in hibernation mode. if that $#@!er goes to zero then it's at most a couple of benjamins to replace.

    tesla got some stupid $#@!ing designers.

  27. #27
    asshat Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CO_Gator View Post
    So the fact remains, battery goes to zero and it's $40k?
    read it again...assuming it's true.
    Here's the primary fact that the blogger in question doesn't understand: the Tesla battery pack is not a battery. It's a collection of more than 8,000 individual batteries. Each of those cells is independently managed. So there's only two ways for the entire battery pack to fail. The first is if all 8,000 cells individually fail (highly unlikely except in the case of something catastrophic like a fire). The second failure mechanism is if the battery management system tells the pack to shut down because it has detected a dangerous situation, such as an extremely low depth of discharge. If that's the case, all that needs to be done is to tow the vehicle to a charger, recharge the batteries and then reboot the battery management system. This is the most likely explanation for the five "bricks" that the blogger claims to have heard about. They probably aren't actually bricks, but cars in need of servicing.

    Another error on the part of the blogger is the claim that if the cars discharge fully, the battery packs will be damaged. This is blatantly false. The battery management system of the Tesla Roadster keeps the battery from being discharged to a damagingly low state of charge under normal driving conditions. It's true that a full discharge to zero percent state of charge can potentially be damaging to a battery. However the battery management system of the Roadster won't allow the car to reach that low level of charge.

  28. #28
    asshat CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. CO_Gator can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Bang View Post
    read it again...assuming it's true.
    Yep. I read that. I also read this.

    http://media.theunderstatement.com/0...anual_p5-2.pdf

    I read that as Tesla saying "go to zero, and you're screwed" and "11 weeks from 100% to 0%"

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Bang View Post
    read it again...assuming it's true.
    Well, this is what Tesla makes owners sign:



    "Note: your Roadster warranty as it relates to the battery does not cover damage caused by:

    Leaving your vehicle unplugged when it discharges the battery to at or near zero state of charge"


    I think that shows that the problem is real and Tesla has known about it....


    The problem is probably rare, but there are some situations where it would be a problem. Say you are a wealthy New Yorker with a place in Miami. It would be really cool to have a Tesla down there, but it would suck to have to worry about the power going out and ruining it while you were gone.

  30. #30
    asshat Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er is a rep whore. Old96er's Avatar
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    there is a very light blue one parked on 6th near rounders under a complex every day. It is parked next to the chargers, but I never see it plugged in. Hope he knows.

  31. #31
    Usually Posts GIFs hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? hornfan785's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Hymen View Post
    there is a very light blue one parked on 6th near rounders under a complex every day. It is parked next to the chargers, but I never see it plugged in. Hope he knows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomed View Post
    I saw it on south lamar, grey haired guy in a white one.
    I guess there's at least 3 in Austin then, because the one I've seen it a silver colored one.

  32. #32
    asshat Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang's Avatar
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    I see quite a few in SoCal.

  33. #33
    Rep-A Ponzi Scheme MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5's Avatar
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    Allsome, some enterprising teens will take advantage of running a resistor across the plug in receptacle to brick those pricks Teslas. Modern banana in the tailpipe

  34. #34
    asshat Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police's Avatar
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    My company has three Roadsters in our parking lot at various times. Two of them belong to one of the the founders, the other belongs to a sales guy I think. I posted some photos in the other Tesla thread.

    All Lithium-Ion batteries have the same problem as Tesla's cars. When's the last time you worried about your cell phone's battery discharging to the point where it can't be recharged? I realize your cell phone is $100 and not $40k. But don't tell me you wouldn't worry about it if it was a real problem.

    I would imagine the batteries can be recharged even when at 0%, but only in a safe, controlled manner enabled by Tesla engineers. Until a first degree source says "yeah I had to pay $40k for new batteries" I'll doubt the stories of Tesla bricks.

  35. #35
    asshat Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police is a rep whore. Grammer Police's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPhlegm View Post
    very stupid of tesla to not put a little cheap ass battry that the software would switch to when the big un get's down to 10% or less, to keep the electronics going in hibernation mode. if that $#@!er goes to zero then it's at most a couple of benjamins to replace.

    tesla got some stupid $#@!ing designers.
    What will you do when your back-up "little cheap ass battery" also runs dry? Switch to a back-up-back-up cheap ass battery? Switch to the main battery? All of them will run dry after an arbitrarily long duration of time.

  36. #36
    Rep-A Ponzi Scheme MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5 might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MP5's Avatar
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    Well, time for some bets with the boss

    Quote Originally Posted by Grammer Police View Post
    My company has three Roadsters in our parking lot at various times. Two of them belong to one of the the founders, the other belongs to a sales guy I think. I posted some photos in the other Tesla thread.

    All Lithium-Ion batteries have the same problem as Tesla's cars. When's the last time you worried about your cell phone's battery discharging to the point where it can't be recharged? I realize your cell phone is $100 and not $40k. But don't tell me you wouldn't worry about it if it was a real problem.

    I would imagine the batteries can be recharged even when at 0%, but only in a safe, controlled manner enabled by Tesla engineers. Until a first degree source says "yeah I had to pay $40k for new batteries" I'll doubt the stories of Tesla bricks.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Superhero View Post
    Solar panels won't help a car parked in a dark garage.
    I would hope the owner would have enough sense to plug the damn thing in if he's parked in the garage.

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