Mizzou won a whopping 9 conference titles in 17 seasons and play near a pro sport town where they take a decided back seat to the Cards and Rams. In what f'ed up world is that a "good piece"?
Mizzou won a whopping 9 conference titles in 17 seasons and play near a pro sport town where they take a decided back seat to the Cards and Rams. In what f'ed up world is that a "good piece"?
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...v-negotiations"It certainly strengthened us in television" is commissioner-speak for "Hey, you saw that very nice bump the Big 12 got in its post-expansion TV contract? We're going to make it look like the 47 cents in your Camry's ashtray."
I see good things on the horizon...
Mizzou has good academics, and is situated near decent markets. But they are a borderline fit in the SEC.
I have seen a lot of people speculate about "grabbing the NYC TV market," but let me share my insight as someone who lived in New Jersey for 11 years and still has most of my family in NJ/NY...
NYC doesn't give a $#@! about Rutgers. (Period).
NYC is a borderline CFB city, though there is a big collection of PSU and ND alumni in the area, which would have the biggest population of CFB fans. NYC is a professional sports town -- most of the Northeast is since the population has a) gone to smaller private colleges/universities, or b) transplants from other parts of the country. Will the people of NYC watch CFB? Sure, but it is more of a interest in who is hot/exciting now rather than any school loyalty.
Basically, the bottom line is you can't compete with the professional sports in NYC, but if you want to get the attention of NYC's CFB fans, you get Notre Dame.
big 10 doesnt care who watches. they already have the cable/satellite contracts in place so if they add that tv market then it falls into their contract as a home market and they get paid the top rate for every subscriber in NYC market no matter how many or how few people actually watch the channel. money grab.
NCSU is a UNC school, UNC regents aren't sending NCSU to some conference which UNC is not a part of.
What you don't understand is that it doesn't matter. The BTN charges a higher carriage fee for cable providers within it's footprint (and I think if Rutgers were added, NYC would fall within that footprint). So the BTN may be available only on sport tier packages right now in the NYC market (I really don't know) but by bringing NYC into the Big Ten footprint, not only do the carriage fees increase but the BTN moves up to a more readily available tier. So it almost doesn't matter how many people in NYC actually watch the thing, the fact that the major cable providers will offer it in a more basic tier is what will generate the money.
But ads are where the BTN gets it's money. As of '09, about 60% of the BTN's revenue came from ads. As a result, putting the BTN on basic tiers in NYC does wonders for selling ads. In fact, Frank the Tank did the numbers back in '10 and showed that of every "potential" Big Ten expansion team (keep in mind this is before corn aggy was officially added), Rutgers was second only to Texas in potential ad revenue to the BTN...
CANDIDATES TOTAL ADDED REVENUE ESTIMATE
Texas $101,369,004
Rutgers WITH NYC $67,798,609
Nebraska $54,487,990
Maryland $50,818,889
Boston College $48,382,692
Notre Dame $47,629,255
Kansas $46,320,092
Missouri $45,901,459
Syracuse $43,504,813
Connecticut $38,080,271
Pittsburgh $34,365,175
Iowa State $31,831,077
Syracuse WITH NYC $65,874,573
http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/20...g-ten-network/
That is why the two names you hear the most associated with further Big Ten expansion (aside from Notre Dame of course) are Rutgers and Maryland because while both schools don't offer a whole lot athletically, their revenue potential via the BTN is very large.
incredible stuff jtk. domer is the keystone of gozer the gozarian.
should it not read like this:
CANDIDATES TOTAL ADDED REVENUE ESTIMATE
Texas $101,369,004
Syracuse WITH RUTGERS $65,874,573
Rutgers WHICH TRIGGERS NEW YORK RECALC $67,798,609
Nebraska $54,487,990buttraw osborne already on board
Maryland $50,818,889
Boston College $48,382,692
Notre Dame $47,629,255
Kansas $46,320,092won't have 'em?
Missouri $45,901,459slived
Syracuse $43,504,813acc 2014. for now.
Connecticut $38,080,271
Pittsburgh $34,365,175acc 2014. for now.
Iowa State $31,831,077won't have 'em
if domer says $#@! you delany, rutgers, maryland, BC and connecticut are the only 4 options unless syracuse and pitt reconsider their acc decision or the b1gwigs change their mind about schools they've previously turned up their nose at.
Last edited by Hagbard Celine; 03-19-2012 at 03:17 PM.
one other thought we're forgetting.... the Magic Map requires Pitt to reconsider and turn traitor on their ACC decision just like the horny toads did. but doing so paves the way for the b1g to dump connecticut for syracuse, a no-brainer.
i'm not a barrister, but the caselaw here is irrelevant. the ncaa and those in power can't afford to have 20 satellite trucks and the worldwide leader beaming daily, hourly updates from the discovery process location(s). i can come up with a winning strategy for the plaintiffs. stir the $#@!storm across the airwaves 7x24 for as long as possible. add a sprinkle of sandusky and james, and bake for one off-season with no competing news in the oven. profit.
Talk about aiming low. If it was the team of last resort then maybe but there's no reason to even mention cincy until everything else is exhausted and considering we've essentially pillaged the ACC I imagine Pitt and BC will be receptive to overtures especially with Notre dame in the fold. We won't need a warm body at that point.
Cincy's not even a Big 12 consideration at this point. The priorities are the three (or four) ACC schools, Notre Dame, of course, and at least one of Louisville, BYU, Maryland, and maybe B.C. because of its' ties to Notre Dame. Several things have to happen first for Notre Dame to get interested, as mentioned earlier in this thread. At any rate, the interest of the ACC three, Florida State, Miami, and Clemson, (...and maybe Georgia Tech.) has to be vetted first. Virginia and Virginia Tech would get consideration, but neither has shown any interest in leaving the ACC.
The sec isn't in a bad position but they didn't do themselves any favors adding mizzou and A&M. In retrospect it actually be benefitted the big 12. Now the big 12 has great flexibility while the sec has little. Aggy will continue to pat themselves on the back but in reality they did us and the remaining schools a huge favor. Thx little bro.
I just threw out Cincy as a name. If we have already picked up ND, Clemson, FSU and maybe Miami, what difference does it make? Pitt? Please. Cuse? Please. All are fine, none are worth breaking a sweat for.
Probably none but cincy is small potatoes and should be considered after others.
$#@! the dumb $#@!. Let's steal $#@!ing Florida to go along with FSU, Miami and Clemson.
The ACC may wind up suspiciously looking like the Big (L)east once the Big 12, and perhaps the SEC and B1G grab current ACC members. The ACC will have to go back and raid the Big (L)east some more just to get up to ten or twelve teams, but at least, they'll still be a basketball powerhouse. I figure that right now, Florida State, Miami, Clemson, perhaps Georgia Tech, perhaps Maryland, and perhaps BC are in play to some degree. You figure UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia, and Virginia Tech are all pretty solid to the ACC, and Pitt and the 'Cuse are too new to the conference to be looking at their options yet. The Big (L)east will be raiding the MAC to get back to even C-USA's level.
NYC nearly always gets Big 10 games in regional coverage splits anyways. They don't need Rutgers to dominate the market. However, Rutgers did have a bump in NYC coverage the Ray Rice years. They could certainly capture the market if they could put a steadily decent product on the field. And there are more Rutgers alums in the NYC area than ND or PSU, probably combined. They just aren't going to give a $#@! until the team has sustained success.
If Notre Dame were to join a conference, wouldn't USC immediately become a part of the discussion as well? How happy is USC splitting revenue with all the crappy teams out west?
You guys might find this $#@! intereasting..
From the Sports Business Journal
It is worth heading to the link just to see the tables with the contract figures on themThe Big 12’s pending media rights extension with ESPN is being patterned after the Pac-12’s TV rights deal, sources told SportsBusiness Journal last week.
That’s because the deal, which still is weeks away from being signed, is expected to have ESPN and Fox Sports sharing some broadcast and cable programming rights, like they do in the new agreement with the Pac-12. Currently, ESPN holds the broadcast rights for Big 12 games, and Fox Sports holds the cable rights for football.
The Big 12’s extension with ESPN would take the league’s partnership with the network to 2025. The two contracts combined would run concurrently for 13 more years and pay the conference a total of $2.5 billion. The breakdown works out to roughly $1.3 billion from ESPN and $1.2 billion from Fox.
Fox could pick up the rights to some Big 12 football games for its broadcast channel, while ESPN could wind up with cable rights that it could use for its channels.
Photo by: GETTY IMAGES
If the new deal goes through as expected, Fox could pick up the rights to some football games for its broadcast channel, while ESPN could wind up with cable rights that it would use for its channels. One of the ESPN channels that could benefit is Longhorn Network, which thus far has been unable to cut carriage deals with the biggest cable operators and satellite companies in Texas.
A working relationship between ESPN and Fox is far from unprecedented. The two networks joined forces last year to negotiate a record $3 billion, 12-year deal with the Pac-12, which made them joint rights holders for the first time.
“It’s beyond two major networks. It’s really two major media companies with lots of networks and lots of platforms and a vast array of marketing assets,” said Chris Bevilacqua, the media consultant for the Pac-12 who engineered that conference’s joint deal with ESPN and Fox. “It’s terrific if you’re the property rights holder. Both networks have proved to be great producers, distributors and marketers, and they have significant investments in college sports. Between the two of them, it’s good for the overall industry to have all the assets of two of the biggest media companies in the world investing into your product.”
The pending deal also keeps competitor NBC Sports from gaining a foothold in the college sports marketplace. When they completed their Pac-12 deal, ESPN and Fox Sports executives were open about their willingness to partner in order to keep NBC Sports from getting the conference’s games.
If the Big 12 deal is signed, it will have the same effect.
The Big 12’s current contract with ESPN has four years left on it, but both sides didn’t want to wait it out. The conference, which has endured the upheaval of four schools leaving and two new schools joining in the last two years, looks forward to securing its financial future after it appeared that the conference might crumble. Nebraska left for the Big Ten and Colorado joined the Pac-12 last year, and this year Texas A&M and Missouri are heading to the SEC, moves which left the conference on the verge of folding.
Instead, the Big 12 added Texas Christian and West Virginia to hold steady at 10 teams.
How a new media contract would affect the conference’s willingness to expand remains to be seen, but industry analysts said the Big 12 would be less likely to add more teams now that it has its primary revenue stream secured for the next 13 years.
The conference stands to make $2.5 billion over the next 13 years combined from both networks, which averages $192.3 million a year, or $19.23 million annually per school. That puts the Big 12 in the same range with the Pac-12 and the Big Ten, both of which make close to $21 million a year for their schools through media deals.
The Pac-12 money is about to jump when its conference networks come online later this year.
Big 12 schools also have the potential to generate additional revenue because each one keeps the rights to at least one football game and multiple basketball games that they can monetize. For Texas, those games go on Longhorn Network, while other schools broadcast them online or on TV through syndication or pay-per-view.
The SEC’s current deal with ESPN annually pays its schools about $17 million each, while the ACC is at $13 million per school, but both conferences are in the midst of negotiating raises to account for expansion. The ACC is adding Syracuse and Pittsburgh.
Extending the Big 12’s deal not only secures the conference’s financial future, it should make its schools think twice before jumping to other leagues. The deal also would lock ESPN into a long-term partnership with the league and prevent the Big 12 from taking its rights to the open market, two aspects to the deal that carry significant value, industry sources say.
Others, however, have wondered why the conference would rush into a deal now. Chuck Neinas, the Big 12’s interim commissioner, is expected to be in office for three more months until a permanent replacement is hired, which has prompted industry experts to wonder why the conference would move forward in its talks with ESPN instead of waiting until a permanent commissioner is hired. Big 12 officials would not comment.
Doing its extension with ESPN now also might rob the conference of some important negotiating power. ESPN’s contract talks with the SEC and ACC could reset the market again if those numbers jump and meet or surpass Pac-12 money.
On the other hand, the Big 12 can rest somewhat easier knowing that it has gone from the verge of extinction to solid footing for the next 13 years.
The college marketplace promises to be busy this year. In addition to the talks between ESPN and the SEC and ACC, the Big East will be in the market for a new contract as well. The Mountain West and Conference USA also are in the process of determining how they could merge their two leagues, and that too could present the opportunity to renegotiate their media contracts.
$#@! it.. I know the shag is lazy
Current college television deals CONFERENCE TERMS CONTRACT YEARS NETWORK(S) DEAL SIGNED
BIG TEN $1 billion/10 years 2007-2008 through 2016-17 ESPN/ABC June 2006 $72 million*/6 years 2011-12 through 2016-17 CBS June 2011 $2.8 billion/25 years 2007-2008 through 2031-32 Big Ten Network August 2006 Notes: With the addition last year of former Big 12 member Nebraska, there are 12 schools in the Big Ten. Big Ten Network debuted in 2007. The conference and News Corp. jointly own the network and share expenses.
BIG EAST $200 million/6 years 2007-2008 through 2012-13 ESPN/ABC August 2006 Note: Pitt and Syracuse will be moving to the ACC, and West Virginia is leaving to join the Big 12. In response, the Big East will add Boise State, Central Florida, Houston, Memphis, Navy, San Diego State, Southern Methodist and Temple.
SEC $2.25 billion/15 years 2009-10 through 2023-24 ESPN/ABC August 2008 $825 million/15 years 2009-10 through 2023-24 CBS College Sports August 2008 Note: Missouri and Texas A&M will join the conference later this year, giving it 14 members.
ACC $1.86 billion/12 years 2011-12 through 2022-23 ESPN/ABC, ACC Network/Raycom May 2010 Note: Pitt and Syracuse will join the ACC, giving it 14 members.
BIG 12 $1.17 billion/13 years 2012-13 through 2024-25 Fox March 2011 $1.3 billion/13 years 2012-13 through 2024-25 ESPN/ABC March 2012 $78 million/4 years 2008-09 through 2011-12 FSN April 2007 Note: Last year the conference lost Colorado and Nebraska, reducing it to 10 members, and this year it will lose Missouri and Texas A&M to the SEC. In response, it has added Texas Christian and West Virginia, keeping it at 10 members.
PAC-12 $3 billion/12 years 2011-12 through 2022-23 ESPN and Fox May 2011 Note: Former Big 12 member Colorado and former Mountain West member Utah became the 11th and 12th members of the conference last year. * Basketball only Sources: Conference Form 990s filed with the IRS; conference officials
From SBJ figures, here's the adjusted annual value of the media rights in 2012 dollars, with 3% inflation assumed:
PAC: $17.9MM
B12: $15.9MM
B1G: $15.9MM
SEC: $12.5MM ~$14.5MM estimated after negotiations
ACC: $9.6MM ~$11.1MM estimated after negotiations
BE: $2.6MM ~$4.2M estimated after negotiations
I'm not sure how to treat B12's expiring FSN contract - whether the new ABC contract will assume those rights or if they will be renegotiated later. It is excluded, but potentially bumps us up to $17.9MM.
The SEC needs $2.5BB over 12 years to get a comparable deal (up from ~$1.8BB)
Last edited by The Missing Link; 03-20-2012 at 12:10 PM.
but the big 12 is an "on your own for tier 3" conference whereas the pac and shortly the sec will have a conference network to negotiate tier 3 as a group
Last edited by The Missing Link; 03-20-2012 at 12:23 PM.
That's interesting. I've never really looked at the specifics of it. Ignoring other sports, their ABC contract is for up to 41 football games. The Big 12's Fox and current ESPN contracts are for up to 59 (19 from ESPN; 40 from Fox).
The B1G Network averages 3 football games per team, just under 9 basketball games per team, then all the other BS.
When the LHN was announced, it was for one football game, and 8 basketball games.
In the end, the B1G has a larger 3rd tier package, and is making a fair amount less than Texas, well before our 70% rule kicks in.
I personally don't want to go to 16 teams. I am afraid that 16 is going to not work. Let's let the SEC (at 14 already) figure that out. Even with the Pod System, it just becomes a loose affiliation of teams. I'm afraid that 16 is so big that it collapses upon itself. The SEC is likely going to at some point end their cross-over game which ends many years of tradition with games like Alabama/Tennessee and Auburn/UGa ending. And for what? To say they have the richest tv deal? I guess so. Slive, a few years ago, said that the biggest threat he saw to the SEC was from within and I think he's pulling his own trigger. Adding Mizzou, culturally, makes no sense but it had to be done to get to the 14 round #.
That said, I do think the Big12 needs to get back to 12. Where the other 2 come from.........
I'm of the complete opposite opinion, personally. Stay at ten or expand to a full sixteen. Ten teams keeps the most unity, the clearest road to a championship, and still makes a ton of money.
Any more than that and we have the Big 12 north issues all over again, both in terms of unbalanced championship games and not having a real rivalry with any of the teams from the other division. 12 has that problem; 14 makes it even worse (if you add a cross division rival like the SEC, you play the other six schools every six years). 16 changes things with a shift to pods. The focus becomes on the fight with your podmates, and since that's only three games out of eight or nine, you still have a lot of space to play all the other schools much more regularly.
And if we go with a rotating division style pod setup, it puts us in the same division as all other teams once every three years, giving us incentive to root for and against teams during games we wouldn't have any standings-based reason to care about otherwise. Clemson-FSU would be a good watch regardless, but if it their records directly impact our ability to make it to the championship game, we will care a lot more.
Aside from a setup like that, there are few ways that we can grow past ten and still have us care about schools like WVU any more than we cared about Mizzou before. Plus the Big 12 east division would be ugly as $#@!. Iowa State in the same division as Miami? No thank you.
Last edited by randomscribbles; 03-21-2012 at 01:15 PM.
I prefer 10 over 16 but the only problem with 10 (and it's a big problem) is the perception that it is weak.
I think that the issues with the Big12 were not due to the way it is designed as much as the individual schools that left had other agendas. 1) Nebraska was not happy that the conference went from being situated in KC to Dallas and the league became a TX centric league. 2) CU thought that the music was stopping and went for a quick payout fearing no safe landing. 3) A&M is A&M. 4) Mizzou, not really sure.
But if you look at the 12 member SEC they never had any problems with scheduling or what you mention above. I do think that if we go to 12 teams, a cross-over game does make sense. I had said that years ago, OU should have had Nebraska as a cross-over rival, I would have liked CU, A&M KSU, Baylor Iowa St., OSU Kansas, Tech Mizzou... something like that. It helps give you 1 rival in the opposite division. The way the SEC is going, they either need a 9 team conf. schedule to maintain the cross-over or they won't play each other in opposite divisions in almost decades.
Of the schools I think there might be a shot of adding, here's my Big 16:
Northeast Pod 1 “Yankee”: Notre Dame, West Virginia, Rutgers, Iowa State
Southeast Pod 2 “Dixie”: Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Maryland
Northwest Pod 3 “Plains”: Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, Texas Tech
Southwest Pod 4 “Red River”: Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Christian, Oklahoma State
I cannot let go of the northeastern corridor if it's there.
Northeast Pod 1 “Yankee”: Notre Dame, West Virginia, Rutgers, Iowa State
Southeast Pod 2 “Dixie”: Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Maryland
Northwest Pod 3 “Plains”: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Southwest Pod 4 “Lone Star": Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
1.) 9 game conference schedules with 3 in pod, 3 against the other pod that makes up your division and every team has 1 annual cross over game within each pod, that could be the carrot that gets ND on board. They could have annual games with Texas, OU and Miami or FSU if they so choose
2.) Divisions change every two years so the even the have-nots like KSU, KU, and ISU can say they will play games in Texas and FL every four years. This will help avoid the unbalance like the run the Big12 South had over the North in the last years of the 12 team Big 12 and will help integrate the teams.
For example, every year UT would play TT, TCU and BU (pod games) OU, ND and FSU (annual cross over rivalries) and then add in 3 games versus which ever pod was up in the rotation. Getting OU out your pod would allow for the possibility of a UT-OU conference champ games but continue the greatness that is the RRS at the Fair.
Oops, I forgot to retype Baylor when switching up the pods from XOVERX's originals, will edit
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