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Thread: CBO to Barry - you're only 6.7 Trillion OFF this time

  1. #1
    asshat Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Pepper Brooks's Avatar
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    CBO to Barry - you're only 6.7 Trillion OFF this time

    Numbers and match Barry, how do they work? helath plan to cost 900 bil, errrr 1.7 Trillion. Stimulus to keep unemployment at 8% errrr 10%. Cut the deficit in half by end of first term....errr.....400 billion to 1.5 trillion. Budget to REDUCE deficit by 3.2 Trillion over 10 years errrrr INCREASE by 3.5 TRILLION over next decade. Nice work Barry. Now this is the kind of mistake, lie, incompetence, whatever that needs to get Barack fired in November. Clearly the CBO is racist.

    http://minx.cc/?post=327554

    President Obama’s 2013 budget would add $3.5 trillion to annual deficits through 2022, according to a new estimate from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).
    It also would raise the deficit next year by $365 billion, according to the nonpartisan office.

    The CBO estimate is in sharp contrast to White House claims last month that the Obama budget would reduce deficits by $3.2 trillion over the next decade.
    Last edited by Pepper Brooks; 03-16-2012 at 01:29 PM.

  2. #2
    asshat Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler is a rep whore. Texas_Straggler's Avatar
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    Don't you know this is all BS and that if he wasn't here GWB would have made it 20X worse? Oh and that the most important issue nowadays isn't this, it's Rush's calling every women in the world a slut?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepper Brooks View Post
    Numbers and match Barry, how do they work? helath plan to cost 900 bil, errrr 1.7 Trillion. Stimulus to keep unemployment at 8% errrr 10%. Cut the deficit in half by end of first term....errr.....400 billion to 1.5 trillion. Budget to REDUCE deficit by 3.2 Trillion over 10 years errrrr INCREASE by 3.5 TRILLION over next decade. Nice work Barry. Now this is the kind of mistake, lie, incompetence, whatever that needs to get Barack fired in November.

    http://minx.cc/?post=327554

    BHO is in the midst of making the most colossal economic mistakes in U.S. history. Trillions upon trillions upon trillions in "mistakes." It is what happens when you put a left wing community organizer in charge of the world's largest economy. The amazing part is that the liberal elite media is glossing over all this mess. Add to that they were his cheerleaders in 2008 and did not do their jobs. They should have instead have vetted him. Yet they glossed over the Bill Ayers business, his leftist positions when he taught at Chicago law school and his associations with Jeremy Wright and Professor Bell. More than that they glossed over his total lack of experience in the private sector outside the world of academia.

    At bottom, I think Mr. Obama means well. However, it is clear he lacks realism in his views of his programs and his initiatives and their actual cost.
    Last edited by Emoryoid; 03-16-2012 at 01:39 PM.

  4. #4
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    helath?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPhlegm View Post
    helath?
    To pay for ObamaCare, we are all going to be taxed when we say the word "health". $#@!, there goes $20.

  6. #6
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    Did you ever think that you would look back after 4 years and wish Hillary won the democratic nomination? Yeah, me neither.

  7. #7
    asshat OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anastasis View Post
    Did you ever think that you would look back after 4 years and wish Hillary won the democratic nomination? Yeah, me neither.
    I'd take her over Mr. Obama any day. He was so utterly unprepared to occupy the office of president. It's horrible and pathetic all at the same time.

  8. #8
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    Not just the tremendous cost overrun from the initial estimate, BUT UP TO 20 MILLION PEOPLE will lose their current employer furnished health insurance on account of Obamacare! http://washingtonexaminer.com/politi...overage/375541

    Typical government.

  9. #9
    asshat SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut is a rep whore. SpiralOut's Avatar
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    I remember when the whole ObamaCare bull$#@! was going down, I and a few others here said that there was no $#@!ing way in hell Obama's healthcare plan was going to match what the politicians were saying it was going to cost. A few folks here valiantly championed the CBO and their "estimates" of what it was going to cost. Needless to say, I was still a skeptic. And here we are.

    When does the government ever do anything on or under budget? Especially something the magnitude of ObamaCare? Never. That's when.

  10. #10
    asshat OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiralOut View Post
    I remember when the whole ObamaCare bull$#@! was going down, I and a few others here said that there was no $#@!ing way in hell Obama's healthcare plan was going to match what the politicians were saying it was going to cost. A few folks here valiantly championed the CBO and their "estimates" of what it was going to cost. Needless to say, I was still a skeptic. And here we are.

    When does the government ever do anything on or under budget? Especially something the magnitude of ObamaCare? Never. That's when.
    When you're spending other peoples money, what the hell do you care about a budget ??????

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by onboard View Post
    when you're spending other peoples money, what the hell do you care about a budget ??????
    exactly

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnBoard View Post
    When you're spending other peoples money, what the hell do you care about a budget ??????

    What gets me about politicians (all of them, not just Obama) is when they have some costly legislative program they want to sell they always use the rosiest assumptions to make their cost calculations. They do this knowing that it is highly unlikely those assumptions will hold true. But they do so to come up with a cost estimate figure that they can then use to sell their program to the masses ... that is, to those who do not follow politics very closely and/or who don't actually have to pay for these programs out of their own pockets. What is so aggravating about this is that it is all so predictable, yet tons and tons of people fall for the snake oil these politicians sell every single time. They treat the American people like we are just their sheep to be lead to slaughter.
    Last edited by Emoryoid; 03-17-2012 at 10:33 AM.

  13. #13
    asshat Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call's Avatar
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    So, the Republican spin machine produces more lies and misleading information. The whole CBO thing has been exposed as has the Obamacare lie. Are Republicans really this stupid? Apparently so. William F. Buckley would be embarrassed by the appalling levels of ignorance. So would Goldwater.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrow Call View Post
    So, the Republican spin machine produces more lies and misleading information. The whole CBO thing has been exposed as has the Obamacare lie. Are Republicans really this stupid? Apparently so. William F. Buckley would be embarrassed by the appalling levels of ignorance. So would Goldwater.

    So, you would vote the way I will, which to get rid of all incumbents. Number one on the list is BHO. Number 2, at least on my list, is my congressman (who happens to be a pub). Time to clean our house of all this vermin.

  15. #15
    asshat Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Woodrow Call's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emoryoid View Post
    So, you would vote the way I will, which to get rid of all incumbents. Number one on the list is BHO. Number 2, at least on my list, is my congressman (who happens to be a pub). Time to clean our house of all this vermin.
    Well, yeah, they're all pretty bad. But partisanship is apparently what keeps the money flowing these days. I don't expect it to get much better.

  16. #16
    Woodrow Call,

    A screed where Krugman calls out an economist with integrity like John Taylor doesn't "prove" anything.

  17. #17
    asshat MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? MajorTexasFan's Avatar
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    What would the numbers look like if Obama didn't accede to Republican demands to extend the Bush tax cuts?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorTexasFan View Post
    What would the numbers look like if Obama didn't accede to Republican demands to extend the Bush tax cuts?
    Worst ... we do not have a revenue problem. In fact, after the Bush tax cuts went into effect total revenue INCREASED: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BUDGET-...T-2010-TAB.pdf See page 22. No doubt this is because these cuts made it more profitable to invest. How else do we explain the increase in revenue from 2000 (pre tax cut) to 2007? The problem is this increase in revenue has not kept pace with the huge increases in federal spending that have taken place (note that while revenue was going up in those years, so were outlays .... and since 2009 outlays have been in the stratosphere).

    The government very frequently spends money stupidly and recklessly. Fix the spending problem and then come talk to me about raising taxes.
    Last edited by Emoryoid; 03-17-2012 at 12:40 PM.

  19. #19
    asshat maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? maninblack's Avatar
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    I generally would avoid posting in these types of threads because the Republicans suck just as much as the Democrats but this was funny.



    Last edited by maninblack; 03-17-2012 at 12:56 PM.

  20. #20
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    Hmm, you'd think from some of the posts here that the CBO only had information on the increased costs of Obamacare and nothing at all to say about the savings side of the equation.

    Even looking at just the cost side, there's a relatively benign reason for the increase, you say? No way!

    Sorting through the deceptive attacks on health care reform gets old, even for me. But on Wednesday the Republicans and their allies made a claim so obviously misleading that they, and the media outlets parroting them, must have known they spreading false information.

    The basis for the claim is the Congressional Budget Office’s latest projections for the Affordable Care Act, which critics (and I!) like to call Obamacare. When Congress first passed the law, in the spring of 2010, CBO made official estimates of how much the law would cost, how many people would get insurance as a result, and so on. It updated that estimate one year later and has, now, updated it one more time.

    The CBO distributed its report in the morning and, by 11 a.m., Republican offices on Capitol Hill were spitting out press releases about it. According to the Republicans, CBO had discovered that Obamacare was going to cost $1.76 trillion over the next ten years. “The CBO’s revised cost estimate indicates that this massive government intrusion into America’s health care system will be far more costly than was originally claimed,” Tom Price, chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee, said. Within a few hours, both Fox News and the Washington Times were carrying online stories making the same claim. According to the Fox News account, CBO was “showing that the bill is substantially more expensive—twice as much as the original $900 billion price tag.”

    If CBO had truly determined that health care reform’s cost will be twice the original estimates, it would be huge news. But CBO said nothing of the sort.

    To figure out the cost of health care reform, CBO looks at each of the law’s component parts and, for accounting purposes, groups them into different categories. It calls one category “gross cost of coverage expansions”—that’s the amount of money the federal government will spend to help people get insurance, mostly by offering Medicaid to more people or giving people subsidies they can use to help offset the cost of private insurance. Last year, CBO estimated that the gross cost of coverage expansion from 2012 through 2021 would be $1.445 trillion. Now CBO thinks the gross cost will be $1.496 trillion. The number shifted, in part, because the CBO has changed its projections for economic growth. (MSNBC’s Tom Curry has a nice explanation of this.) But, in the context of such a large a budget projection, that’s barely any difference at all.

    In the this latest estimate, CBO extends its projection out one more year, to capture the expenses from 2012 to 2022, in order to capture a full decade. In 2022, CBO says, the gross cost of coverage expansion will be $265 billion. Add that to the $1.496 and you get (with rounding) the $1.76 trillion—the one in the press releases and the Fox story.

    But there is nothing new or surprising about this. It’s only slightly more money than the previous year’s outlays. The ten-year number seems to jump only because the time frame for the estimate has moved, dropping one year, 2011, and adding another, 2022. Obamacare has virtually no outlays in 2011, because the Medicaid expansion and subsidies don’t start up until 2014, which means the shifting time frame drops a year of no implementation and adds one of full implementation.

    Still, doesn’t that just validate what the law’s critics have always said, that the administration was playing games to hide the program’s true impact on the deficit? Hardly. Remember, this is just the raw cost of expanding insurance coverage we’re talking about here—in other words, the money the federal government is sending out the door. The new law also calls for new revenue, in the form of taxes and penalties. It also reduces spending, mostly through Medicare, to help offset the cost of the coverage expansion. When the Affordable Care Act became law, CBO estimated that the net result of all these changes, taken together, would be to reduce the deficit. Now, with this revised estimate, CBO has decided the law will reduce the deficit by even more money.

    Yes, you read that right: The real news of the CBO estimate is that, according to its models, health care reform is going to save even more taxpayer dollars than previously thought.

    I want to be clear about something. The Affordable Care Act has flaws: Among other things, it reaches fewer people and provides less financial protection than I would prefer. The revised CBO report actually suggests this problem will get mildly worse, since it also expects slightly fewer people to end up with insurance. That’s one reason why the law will cost less; it’s helping fewer people. Another reason is that more employers pay penalties for not offering insurance and more people pay penalties pay penalties for not obtaining it. That’s obviously not great, either.

    The report also had one finding that give us at least a little pause: CBO now projects the number of people with employer-sponsored insurance will drop by 4 million people, on net. It’s still a small effect, representing less than 2 percent of the total population with employer-sponsored coverage. That’s well within the margin of error of these models. It’s also difficult to tell why CBO thinks this will happen—whether it’s fewer employers offering insurance, fewer employees accepting coverage, or workers moving into firms that are less likely to provide benefits. Any of those would be consistent with lower economic growth, as CBO now expects. Still, the issue merits attention. (If I can get a more detailed explanation of why CBO thinks this will happen, I’ll update this item.)

    But these aren’t the nuanced claims Republicans and their allies are making. Nor are their complaints consistent with this general point of view. On the contrary, if they had their way, health care reform would reach even fewer people and provide less protection.

    Meanwhile, the bottom line about Obamacare really hasn’t changed. Notwithstanding these latest adjustments, CBO still thinks it will mean about 30 million additional people get insurance, that insurance will become more secure for those who have it, that the law will more than pay for itself in the first ten years, and that, over the long run, the law will reduce the deficit.

    But why admit those things when you can dissemble about them and when outlets like Fox and the Washington Times will let you get away with it?
    No, Obamacare's Cost Didn't Just Double

  21. #21
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    First, yes, you are likely correct. But this Democratic deception is not a way of mitigating the failure. In fact, it just points out that O-Care was sold on a deliberate deception.

    Second, if the underlying assumptions have not yet changed, well, they will. And when they do, they'll move the wrong way. If you are correct, and I think you are, then the disaster is gonna get much, much worse than it already is once they magically "discover" that their Pelosi-provided assumptions had nothing to do with reality.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrow Call View Post
    So, the Republican spin machine produces more lies and misleading information. The whole CBO thing has been exposed as has the Obamacare lie. Are Republicans really this stupid? Apparently so. William F. Buckley would be embarrassed by the appalling levels of ignorance. So would Goldwater.
    So the cost isn't actually much higher because Obama is going to raise revenue (taxes and penalties) to cover the much higher cost? That logic is embarrassingly twisted. Good grief.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not My Real Name View Post
    Hmm, you'd think from some of the posts here that the CBO only had information on the increased costs of Obamacare and nothing at all to say about the savings side of the equation.

    Even looking at just the cost side, there's a relatively benign reason for the increase, you say? No way!



    No, Obamacare's Cost Didn't Just Double
    Its just goes back to whose ox is going to get gored. There is no question this is going to cost a lot more .... insuring 30 million additional people is not going to be free or cheap. I will bet you anything when all is said and done the people who are the 50.5% who actually pay income taxes in this country will shoulder the lion's share of the cost of this legislation in taxes. And of course everyone with insurance will pay more in premiums, especially employers who offer that insurance to their employees.

    The modern day Democrats clearly believe that it is the function of government to use one group of individuals' money to pay another group of individuals' bills? What a shameless bunch.

  24. #24
    asshat OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emoryoid View Post
    Its just goes back to whose ox is going to get gored. There is no question this is going to cost a lot more .... insuring 30 million additional people is not going to be free or cheap. I will bet you anything when all is said and done the people who are the 50.5% who actually pay income taxes in this country will shoulder the lion's share of the cost of this legislation in taxes. And of course everyone with insurance will pay more in premiums, especially employers who offer that insurance to their employees.

    The modern day Democrats clearly believe that it is the function of government to use one group of individuals' money to pay another group of individuals' bills? What a shameless bunch.
    Welcome to the modern democrat party, Their motto: " We know better than you.....all the time"

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emoryoid View Post
    The modern day Democrats clearly believe that it is the function of government to use one group of individuals' money to pay another group of individuals' bills? What a shameless bunch.
    So, I take it, then, that you favor the individual mandate that would require all to take responsibility for their own bills by acquiring health insurance? Or do you prefer the current method where someone just shows up at the emergency room when they are sick or injured and we all pay for their care?

  26. #26
    asshat OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? OnBoard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not My Real Name View Post
    So, I take it, then, that you favor the individual mandate that would require all to take responsibility for their own bills by acquiring health insurance? Or do you prefer the current method where someone just shows up at the emergency room when they are sick or injured and we all pay for their care?
    I'd have preferred a plan where by people could actually see whatbthe legislation was going to be before they were forced to sign it to find out what's in it. It a badly written piece of legislation and the affects wont really come home to roost till after 2014. It's a shell game, it is even worse than Pres. bushes presription med program by a factor of a bajillion give or take a dollar.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not My Real Name View Post
    So, I take it, then, that you favor the individual mandate that would require all to take responsibility for their own bills by acquiring health insurance? Or do you prefer the current method where someone just shows up at the emergency room when they are sick or injured and we all pay for their care?
    No individual mandate at the federal level as it is unconstitutional. Never before has the federal government required one private party to enter into a contract with another private party. I say leave it to the states to cover that if they want to; the federal government should get out of the health care business altogether except for those who are not already covered by Medicare or Medicaid or one of the other smaller federal programs (e.g., DVA care).

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnBoard View Post
    I'd have preferred a plan where by people could actually see whatbthe legislation was going to be before they were forced to sign it to find out what's in it. It a badly written piece of legislation and the affects wont really come home to roost till after 2014. It's a shell game, it is even worse than Pres. bushes presription med program by a factor of a bajillion give or take a dollar.
    That's the kind of answer I expect when you don't really have an answer. And that's the problem the Republicans are facing as a whole. "Repeal Obamacare!" Okay, but replace it with what? Go back to the way it was before? "We don't want to pay for other people's healthcare." Okay, then how do you propose we make sure that doesn't happen or that it happens less often than without Obamacare?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emoryoid View Post
    No individual mandate at the federal level as it is unconstitutional. Never before has the federal government required one private party to enter into a contract with another private party. I say leave it to the states to cover that if they want to; the federal government should get out of the health care business altogether except for those who are not already covered by Medicare or Medicaid or one of the other smaller federal programs (e.g., DVA care).
    You still haven't answered the question of how you would make sure that we don't pay for other people's bills.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not My Real Name View Post
    You still haven't answered the question of how you would make sure that we don't pay for other people's bills.
    I thought I did ... we do it by getting the federal government out of the health care business outside its existing insurance programs. Even then, we will be paying a whopping lot of other people's bills. Its just I don't want to expand that.

    What do I mean that we will still pay a whoppin amount of other people's bills under my proposal? Well, we will keep medicaid intact...that means all these disabled persons will have health care coverage as a benefit. This comes from my belief that a person who will not work should go without... at least as far as the national government is concerned. However, that belief does not include those who cannot work. Similarly, the children of the poor should have medicaid. They should not be punished for their failings of their able bodied parents.

    Now you may say, what about persons who just cannot get a job with insurance coverage? As I mentioned earlier, we ought to provide another mechanism for securing medicaid. Give a person two years from the time he enters the workforce before he is cut off. If a person is fired, require the employer to continue his insurance for two years or until he gets another job where he has coverage.

    Provide generous tax credits to employers. Allow for free competition among all 1300 health insurers in every state. As to those without employment, require insurers to offer catastrophic insurance where they only pay if the injury or sickness is life threatening.

    So, under my thinking, we will still pay for others' bills, but will seriously limit it. Its not unfair to do things this way. None of our founding fathers said that the federal government's place is make sure people have health care. If people want more coverage than what I mentioned move, they should move to a state where it is offered.

    I just think have to get tough with a whole lot of people on this issue. Otherwise, they are just going to bleed the federal treasury dry. Actually, the federal coffers are dry. People just do not see it and perceive that we are a wealthy country. The reality is that we are no longer wealthy because of our excessive spending. It just does not feel that way because the federal government, unlike the states, can print money and, strangely, the world is willing to loan it $16 trillion dollars. However, we can just continue these practices for so long.
    Last edited by Emoryoid; 03-17-2012 at 04:52 PM.

  31. #31
    asshat TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? TexasEd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anastasis View Post
    Did you ever think that you would look back after 4 years and wish Hillary won the democratic nomination? Yeah, me neither.
    Yes, I actually voted in the Dem primary because I believed Obama would be much worse than Clinton II and I knew McCain had no chance.

  32. #32
    Banned clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? clear lake horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge?
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    The real "Obamacare lie" was the Democrats putting out cost estimates based on 10 years of revenue and 6 years of benefits.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by clear lake horn View Post
    The real "Obamacare lie" was the Democrats putting out cost estimates based on 10 years of revenue and 6 years of benefits.
    I know ... it was Chicago style politics at its worst. They wanted that bill to pass so badly that they used every sleazy tactic in the book to get their way. They not only lied to the American people about its cost, but they used the reconciliation procedure (a move ordinarily reserved for passing budgets) to have it become law.

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