Lets assume he is responsible for 3 million plus new jobs since he took office (even though 4 million plus were lost). Do the math Jose... how much did he spend? Let's see...divide $3 million into $5 trillion of new Obama debt. That's something along the order of $1.6 million of new debt per job!!!!!! Great job Mr. President! Especially since a lot of those jobs likely pay less than $50K a year. But even if they all paid far more than that .... $5 trillion dollars in new debt in three and a half years!!! Holy cow!!! Great job!
Boy, it sure must be hard to manage things Mr. President when all you have to do is print and borrow and not have to worry about living within your means. That sure is a smart way Mr. President to reverse the damage caused by the Pelosi/Reid Congress that took over in 2006. You know ... the same Congress that you were a part of....the same Congress that did everything it could to prevent Fannie's and Freddie's loose lending practices from being reined in. And you can even do that Mr. President while you are jetting around on your 16 vacations to the playgrounds of the rich and famous.
Last edited by Emoryoid; 04-08-2012 at 11:56 PM.
That easy credit fueled a housing bubble that, like all bubbles, finally burst in 2008. The damage caused by the burst of that bubble was increased by the fact that so many were packaged into securities. It was just a matter of time before that happened and that bubble started in the mid-90's under President Clinton. Obama was quite fortunate politically it happened in the year he was running for the presidency.
I point this out because I do not want to be blindly partisan like Jose. There is blame that belongs to all sides with regard to the 2008 financial crisis. Anyone who tries to place it on only one side is a lying partisan.
Last edited by Emoryoid; 04-09-2012 at 12:30 AM.
Lets forget about 2008 for a second, I still do not understand how 9/11 caused the equivalent of the housing bubble end of times (HBEOT).
Hell not even Katrina was the equivalent of the HBEOT, and a whole city was wiped out.
At some point people need to stop making excuses for Bush, just like Obama has to stop blaming Bush*
* they were pushing this talking point in rightwing blogs before his inauguration, for the record. The right is pretty dirty but this was just a preemptive move.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/2...se-5-trillion/ See also:
That bubble started bursting in early 2000 so it actually started under Clinton. The effects of 9/11 just amplified the effects of the burst of that bubble.
Last edited by Emoryoid; 04-09-2012 at 07:48 AM.
The dot com bubble burst in early 2000 and Tax revenue dropped around ~50 billion, 9/11 happened in late 2001 and it was a drop of ~150 billion. In both years there was GDP growth.
It was cutting taxes, no other way to look at it, the laffer curve is NOT a law as interpreted by conservatives, you cut taxes and you risk a collapse in tax revenues, the idea that GDP growth will continue to grow income is but a fantasy based on previously non controlled observations.
You will see linux that we were half way down the slide in unemployment when the first round of tax cuts were enacted in the spring of 2001. Do you see what happened next according to the graph? Almost immediately after that round of cuts employment spiked upward from a few months. Then right at 9/11 unemployment began its deep decent towards the trough in Sept 2003. But look what happened in 2003. The second round of tax cuts happened around May of 2003. After that, again of few more months of further decent in unemployment and then poof, employment on the upswing again until the beginnings of the burst of the housing bubble in very early 2007.
You can see from the chart employment was very much impacted favorably by the Bush tax cuts. With more employment there is an increase in government revenues per the chart I posted earlier in this thread. These are directly related, of course ... with more employment more people are paying taxes and are making more so they are also paying more taxes. Note as well the decline in employment was fairly dramatic from March 2000 until the first round of tax cuts in April 2001 --- 13 months later. During most of that time, Clinton was the president. So clearly, the tax cuts did not cause this dramatic decline in employment. All economists agree the employment rate plays a key role in tax revenues ... thus, historically speaking, the decline in revenues was all related to the decline in employment due to the dot.com bubble burst and trauma 9/11 brought to the economy. This is clearly supported by the above chart.
One of the things that would have been interesting to see would be how much further that increase in the employment rate would risen...you know, the one the chart shows lasted from May 2011 to mid Sept. 2001. Alas, there were those tragic events in New York, at the Pentagon and a Pennsylvania hay field that sent the economy reeling for an additional two years. No doubt that was in part cause by the hits the stock markets took following the attacks.
Last edited by Emoryoid; 04-09-2012 at 05:35 PM.
A key question posed by the above chart linux ... to what do you account the loss of 1 million jobs from March 2000 to April 2001 when the tax cuts went into effect? Please note that almost all of those 1 million jobs that were lost following March 2000 until April 2001 was under President Clinton. Also, are you saying that the loss of those near 1 million jobs during the last year of Clinton's term did not have a significant negative impact upon the federal government's revenues?
Last edited by Emoryoid; 04-09-2012 at 05:46 PM.
The Republicans have a problem: Their budget promises don’t add up. They’ve committed to new tax cuts. They’ve proposed spending more on defense. They’ve promised they won’t change retirement programs for the current generation of seniors. But they’ve also promised to cut the deficit, and fast.
That’s left them with one option: deep cuts to programs for the poor. That’s what you see in House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan’s budget. It’s the basis for the Romney budget. It’s what Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul and Rick Santorum have proposed. But there’s a problem with that, too. Cutting programs for the poor isn’t popular. So Republicans have come up with a solution: Don’t call them “cuts.” Sell them as “reforms,” “repairs,” or “fixes.”
I look at it this way: other than giving people two or three years after they get out of school so that they have the chance to get started in life or after they get over an illness or after they lose a job (so they can hit the reset button), adults welfare programs should be ended. Why? Because its not my job to give money to people who can work but won't because they are either lazy or have some other lame excuse. In fact, giving welfare money to abled bodied people just enables them so that they can continue living nonproductive lives.
Last edited by Emoryoid; 04-11-2012 at 07:07 AM.
Can you all teach me a little about the Ryan Plan with regard to cuts for the poor? What were the budgets for entitlements for the poor in 2005-2012? What will be the budgets for these programs if the Ryan Plan is enacted?
Last edited by warmfront; 04-11-2012 at 07:31 AM.
To whoever called me a liar, I just looked up my post that I started in archives from Hornfans- stating- I'm going to give this Obama guy a chance, that said exactly what I said in this thread my hope for him was. Transition past baby boomers, civility, adulthood etc. $#@! you for calling me a liar, you chicken$#@! $#@!stain.
MY post from then (so yall don't have to go through those archives:
There's a lot of things I like about a potential Obama presidency.
1) Hopefully it will bring some sort of closure to the race dialogue (or at least advance it) in this country. A 1/2 black, 1/2 white man that's a son of immigrants now sits in the whitehouse. I don't want to hear any more about how it's impossible for a black man to get ahead. This should put the lie to that and hopefully inspire millions to seek the fullness of their potential. You don't have to limit yourself to basketball player, rapper or gang banger to get ahead and this should put that strongly into focus.
2) An easing of tensions in the pres. With a Dem in charge I fully expect to hear way less [censored] about red states and blue states. I was getting sick of those stories. Also, hopefully I'll get a break from all the negative economic news and it'll be ok to root for america to do well worldwide in the future.
3) An end to all those trash anti bush books that clutter up the tables at my local barnes and noble.
4) Ding dong, the Clinton's are dead. I am so happy if a Dem was going to win it was BHO and not HRC. I like seeing Bill beat down and marginalized
5) Hopefully an end to the [censored] nonsense politics my parents generation has been fighting over since they were beatnick hippy protesters in the 60's. I'm really ready to move beyond free love, dope and veitnam in the political conciousness. As BHO was hardly alive then I doubt this continues to fester in the body politic.
6) A president that can make a speech. BHO ain't great on his feet but he is a hell of a speech making guy, something the current president rarely was (I think b/c he didn't give a crap personally- he was ok when talking about national defense, war on terror, global affairs and I think that's b/c his heart was in it) Not so much anything else.
7) Rise of the Republican Party. We've gotten the best of conservatives and ideas when we've wondered in the wilderness (my lifetime). From Reagan to Gingrich it looks like being out of power sharpens our ideas and leads to some new blood. The bench looks pretty thin but who knows what happens there.
8) End to the political posts that read like rival football teams on hornfans and hopefully an end to bush derangement syndrome. I hope this board can go back to being something better than it was in the ceaspool it was from about March on. Maybe BC will even come back.
That's pretty much it as to what I'm looking forward to. Some of it serious, some of it tongue in cheek. But you won't hear me saying Obama isn't my president the way the kook left did with Bush and I'm certainly willing to give him a chance, keep an open mind, and hope he makes me proud as an American.
Of course, now that I'm no longer a member of the evil rich and hope to be middle class when I finally get my teaching cert I'm hoping he re-distributes some of the wealth from my former 02-08 self to my future, school teaching self.
Last edited by Wulaw Horn; 04-17-2012 at 04:36 PM.
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