Last edited by stxhorn; 04-09-2012 at 01:02 AM.
i also side on no. i think the story started off as a parable, possibly, became a "truth" - ie, the legend had grown to large to dispel it, and was codified. as a matter of fact, i never thought jesus was actually claiming he was going to rise again to walk the earth and show himself to the disciples, but that god would take care of his soul, etc, and if they lived by his teachings, they would similarly be taken care of. i think it was far more spiritual than a black and white equation. but what do i know more than anyone else? not much.
though i did meet a crazy stoner in switzerland once who claimed to have met jesus on a mountainside after $#@!ing an english girl. the real jesus. wounds and all. small tangent there.
My point is 1000 years ago the masses believed the story of Jonah as fact it happened, now fast forward and its a "metaphor" WTF changed and whose to say that same change wont happen to the bible as a whole in 100 or 1000 years
Im not denying that there was guy who lived in the ME 2000 or so years ago named Jesus and had followers and all that, what I do question is if he is the "son of god", was resurrected and just about every other far fetched story that is in the bible
C. S. Lewis had a fictional character, Lucy, that made my point here. Upon being questioned as to the veracity of her claims as to the existence of Narnia, her claims were compared to those of her brother, Edmund, who denied what she said was true. Despite how incredulous others were at Lucy's claims of a fairy tale world, eventually an uncle inquired as to why they shouldn't believe Lucy's statements at face value if she had never lied to them before.
Christ is either Lord, liar, or lunatic. There are no other options, but your decision on which of the three He is must be based upon WHO He was, and not simply your idea of what you think He is or what others have wrongly done in His name.
Last edited by stxhorn; 04-09-2012 at 01:05 AM.
Is it your opinion that the cop's death was part of God's plan? If it's part of God's mysterious plan for the universe, why can't we all just sit back and enjoy it? Maybe God wanted to free the wife and kids from their $#@! father. He works in mysterious ways you know.I can guarantee you I'm not seemingly intelligent. ...nor do I joke about police officers being shot in the line of duty.
Last edited by stxhorn; 04-09-2012 at 01:19 AM.
You're definitely entitled to make you're own decision. I have. I'm not trying to be trite or cliche here, but if it's true, it is the most important event in history. A man who claimed to be the Son of God, died and rose again. For all of us. Or it might just be a story.
You apply the same literary analysis you'd apply to any written document.
But what breaks down your cute picture is when Daniel 9 predicts that 483 years from the decree that Jerusalem is to be rebuilt (~450 BC) the Messiah was to be cutoff (i.e. killed). Daniel 9 is a key prophecy and much has been written over what it claims. Needless to say if a text can reach out over 400+ years to predict the future then there's nothing circular about it.
Last edited by stxhorn; 04-09-2012 at 01:56 AM.
I've got to give it to y'all, this thread hit bottom much faster than I thought it would.
Um no, I don't believe it at all. I've always wondered, out of all the people in the world and the different time periods of history, what was so special about those people at that time? Why did god decide to send his son at that time to that region?
no - to the whole kit and caboodle. but there's nothing wrong with being nice to each other.
and the shroud of turin is bogus. however, i do have some pieces of the true cross and judas' pinkie that i'm willing to sell.
Religion is the freaking problem with it all...
I have nothing much to add other than that I do believe that there is a God, higher power, ultimate reality, or something bigger than myself. I am mortal. Something else is eternal. Some people just call it the universe. But even that doesn't answer the question. Science basically says that everything dies. What then?
Then everything ceases to exist. Even the universe.
Life eternal sounds really boring.
Zombie Carpenters? no
Here are more of my problems with my family and church/religion, whatever ...
My brother believes that the Earth is only 6,000 years old because the Bible tells him so (although the Bible doesn't actually say that). All I can say is ... Really? You can't possibly believe that. Of course, he graduated from Texas Tech so maybe I should excuse him.
My mother believes that Adam and Eve didn't have belly buttons because they were "created" not "born." My mother said, "What do you think God did? Stick His finger in their belly like the Pillsbury dough boy and say -- poof, you're done, now you have a belly button." That is ridiculous. I love my Mom but ...
Most of my family believes that Adam was created as about a 10 year old because he had to be old enough to manage the animals that roamed the Earth. They say he couldn't have been a newborn or a baby because he wouldn't be able to take care of himself.
My ex-wife also believes that God created man out of clay, mud, dirt, whatever. She basically believes God made man out of playdough.
This is nonsense. But, I suppose it doesn't matter that they believe in fantastic fairy tales. I still love them and will be there for them as they will always be there for me. It's just curious.
Also, in this post I'm not talking about sin, redemption, separation from God or ultimate truth, etc. I'll talk about that another time.
I do. To hear what happened to the apostles after the resurrection affirms my belief.
Those guys were tortured and murdered, but as Forty mentioned early on in the thread, it wasn't until after Jesus ascended that they were believers. Before that they had all gone back to their normal lives.
Christ appeared to hundreds of believers and non-believers before he ascended.
Other key facts:
* The Roman soldiers posted at his tomb would have been killed if they had let anyone in the tomb. It was their job to keep people out and if they failed they would have resulted in death. Thes guys had no reason to lie or protect a man they didn't believe in. Four soldiers watched in three hour shifts.
* The weight of cloth and sacriment put on him would have suffocated him even if he wasn't already dead from the cruxifiction. It is hundreds of pounds.
* The cloth had collapsed where it was wrapped. It wasn't unwound or cut open.
* The tomb was sealed with a rock that weighed an estimated 1-2 tons and had to be moved with levers.
* Blood and water came from his side when he was pierced. That means the heart and lung sacs were punctured. No coming back from that.
Everyone is free to believe what they want and I don't condemn others' for their beliefs. It is all about your own personal choise. For me, it is simple and beautiful.
these threads always bring it but best part of this thread is people actually biting on grendel's trolling for attention. he finds new ways to be a prick on a daily basis.
If a football team can come back from 1-9, 4-7, & 5-7, then it would be a simple matter for The Man to do it once.
I thought the resurrection was a reference to Tim Tebow to the Jets
'bout to long steely dan this regarded-ass thread
Count me in for believing
Not sure why so many are posting that this thread is "regarded". I haven't seen any insults or pettiness. So far there's been an OP question, some yes's and no's, and a little discussion. If you don't like the topic just pick another. I promise its a worthwhile skill on the Shag.
For those claiming the U.S.A. is a 'Christian Nation', consider how we mark the day our savior rose from the dead:
Our country commemorates the ultimate sacrifice by the most famous Jew in history by eating our weight in non-kosher ham.
How $#@!ed up is that? We could eat turkey or beef or fish or chicken-but no we have to eat a $#@!ton of pork to show a Jew that we love him.
and sorry that your family and ex-wife have distorted views of religion/god/christianity. not all christians are like that. just another way for you to point out how much of a condescending prick you are. at least your ex-wife delivers pineapple pizza to your house on random occassions.
No, I don't but that doesn't keep me from thinking Christ was a righteous dude. When he rode into Jerusalem on the donkey, he knew full well what it meant and what it would mean. That took stones if you think he was just a man.
Only one tangential comment: it absolutely matters whether or not Jesus rose from the dead. If he didn't, then he was a $#@!head and a false prophet and the whole religion is a farce.
But if he did rise from the dead, then I want to listen to what he had to say.
And my answer to the OP is "I don't know."
Its amazing the lengths people will go to make up stuff to discredit Christian beliefs.
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