"What this book presupposes is...maybe he didn't."
That was not an answer at all to the question I posed to you, BTW.
- I prayed and good stuff happened therefore God answers prayers.
- Q: What about when you pray and bad stuff happens?
- A: I don't know, God works in mysterious ways. Do you know why?
The answer is, yes, I do know why. It's simple. God doesn't answer prayers.
What some people perceive to be God answering prayers is actually statistical chance. Like you having a 2-in-10 chance of survival. You survived and you ascribe your survival to God answering your prayer. But the other 8 people, they're dead, and they can't point out that God doesn't answer prayers. And even if they were somehow able to, it's just not nearly as culturally acceptable in religious circles to go around and say "damn, God $#@!ed me over this time" as it is to say "God helped me!"
"Boy, those acts of God really stick it in and break it off, don't they, Jacob?"
I just pos rep'd a Sooner for the inclusion of kickass FDTD reference into otherwise uninspiring thread.
that act unto itself proves no god exists
Last edited by Grammer Police; 04-21-2012 at 02:21 PM.
Since this thread is still going on, I have a question for protestants. With Catholics and Jews it seems pretty simple. You either are or you arent, the beliefs are pretty well established. With protestants though, how does one choose to be Lutheran, or Presbyterian, or Methodist, or Baptist, or to join a TV megachurch which seems to be just whatever (not even sure they have eucharist like some of the other protestant religions). Episcopalian is the only one I have some familiarity with since I am Catholic but was married in an Episcopal church. Episcopalianism seems to be Catholie Lite, the only major difference being that they respond to the Archbishop of Canterbury instead of the Pope. I'm just curious how a protestant christian chooses between the various options that in my mind are very similar, but that is because I am Catholic and never really had a need to research the differences.
"if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
“ for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
as much as I clown Christianity, I have even lower (none) respect for agnostics. Most of you who are bashing religion on this thread will claim agnostic status when you should be openly, proudly and defiantly atheistic (easy to do on the interwebs).
To be confident in a belief does not make you full of $#@!. Would you be full of crap if you said " I fully reject the idea that the Wizard of Oz is God". How do you know that with 100% certainty? Would you be arrogant if you said that?
anyone claiming any type of insight into the ever-presesnt origins question is either delusional or an idiot. no one has any definite answers...whatsoever. religious idiots are idiots for believing their sacred text to be anything more than literature and atheists are idiots for believing it's categorically impossible for there to be any greater force at work, regardless of form.
neither of us have any idea what was going on more than about 14.5 billion years ago. the only rational and reasoned place someone can land with the information available to us to date is agnostic...because no one has a $#@!ing clue.
"Agnostics are just athiests without balls." --Stephen Colbert
for those of you who are genuinely interested in this topic, John Piper's book Jesus: The Only Way to God--Must You Hear the Gospel to be Saved? is free today only for kindle. i haven't read it yet but if it's consistent with Piper and his other books it will be based on sound scriptural analysis. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B003TU0WWY
Yes, I do.
1 Cor 15:4: "that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures"
While scientists and science fiction writers like to theorize about time travel, alternate universes, alien life, etc., the Bible implicitly says that God is everywhere through all the generations of mankind. Regarding alternate universes, Heaven and Hell are spiritual realms with very different environments. The Bible says nothing about alien life evolving on Earth or other planets, but it definitely makes (brief) mention of very interesting/odd angelic creatures.
Your questions are wonderful and I spent years thinking about them until I decided that we live in a sort of flat land and can't see the entire picture. With out seeing the entire picture we can't know. Once I decided that there are other realities I quit worrying so much about how it all started. Even the concept of having to have a beginning may just be part of our frame of reference with events in this reality simply reactions to events in realities we don't see.
Consider how our scientists build computer programs to simulate outcomes such as nuclear explosions. They write the code and watch it unfold to obtain results to answer their questions. While they wrote they code they don't know how it turns out until it executes. It's a learning experience for them. Perhaps this universe works the same way and the free will we speak of is an illusion with future events being unexecuted instructions waiting to unfold. Our reality would be the simulation, the source would be the computer code, the creators the scientists.
I personally just liked the idea that if there is a creator or something, it just said BOOM and let $#@! fly within a fixed set of physical and other rules. Then let the marbles fall as they do and sit back and watch, or don't and go do something else who knows.
I have a REALLY hard time believing that something could create the vast amount of stuff out there and have the time or care to give a rats ass about what we do here on our little blue dot. but that's just me.
Hate to break it you but even if a "creator" just wrote a program it is still deterministic ergo no free will.Consider how our scientists build computer programs to simulate outcomes such as nuclear explosions. They write the code and watch it unfold to obtain results to answer their questions. While they wrote they code they don't know how it turns out until it executes. It's a learning experience for them. Perhaps this universe works the same way and the free will we speak of is an illusion with future events being unexecuted instructions waiting to unfold. Our reality would be the simulation, the source would be the computer code, the creators the scientists.
That or he created the perfect random number generator, but if he did he no longer has his omnipotence, the generator does.
dude, every body knows that the Zionists are just, like, farming us for our blood like, uh, in that vampire movie with Ethan Hawke, or, uh, the one with the guns and latex...uh....oh, dude, the MATRIX. It's just like that, but with them using our blood for their jew rituals.
Dude, what if the Jews......are machines?
Holy $#@!, man. We....live in the jew Matrix.
Like, everything all makes sense now.
A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama - long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-lagunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
I think Christian, atheists, and Jews can unite in acknowledging that you are certifiable.
You do know that there is no way that you're getting into heaven with an attitude like this?
Do you explain in this thread what the concentration camps and the charred bones within them "actually" are?
If God is unable to predict the results of His simulation before it is run -- i.e. if the simulation is a "learning experience" for God -- then there is some knowledge that was unavailable to God and some outcomes outside of His control. Ergo, no omniscience and no omnipotence. There's really no way around it. Arguments like "God lives outside of time" or "God can choose to deny himself knowledge" are beside the point.
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