Scott Walker

[OnBoard]

And what do think he is doing in Oklahoma and Illinois? The difference between the Local unions and Walker is that Walker can skip the state for the national stage regardless of result, Unions still have to live in Wisconsin and suffer his failures (or success).

Why you guys can't see this moral corruption, you are just pining for an authoritarian to non-violently crush competition so that your ideology can be implemented. Democracy is too tepid for your tastes.

I can understand emergencies but WI was not even remotely in need of the nuclear option. Just a hundred million or two over budget.

No it's not just that money. It's the costs going forward and the electorate that just went thru a very difficult time is probably tired of Union people not ever ever ever feeling the same pain that people in the private world do. The time of unions is done in this country, (for govt employees ESP.). Unions like the UMW still function as safety watch dogs and those are the kinds of unions that should be in place we have how many federal agencies that spend billions a year on their infrastructure to deal with employer and employee issues.

You keep skirting the issue of what's down the road if we don't make some changes in our financial house. Govt needs to do withless and unions can't continue using govt to maintain their gravy train fro their votes.

[softlynow]

Cute. Millions of dollars are flooding into WI from outside interests to recall Walker from outside the state.

In tonight's ballgame at Nationals Park, the Astros scored 5 runs in both the 1st and 6th innings.

Hey look! I can type irrelevant non sequiturs too!

[OnBoard]

In tonight's ballgame at Nationals Park, the Astros scored 5 runs in both the 1st and 6th innings.

Hey look! I can type irrelevant non sequiturs too!

Not irrelevant at all. It's exactly the same thing someone earlier posted about Walker speaking in other states. There's nothing unusal about that either.

[linux]

You think Walker is only fighting local unions? How quaint.

You think Local unions are only fighting Walker? Quaint^2

[CooterBrown]

Dumb$#@!. Yeah, private schools do more with the same or less. They also are free to dump non-performing students instead of investing extra time in them.

I have a kid in private school. Sure, they kick problem kids out. Yes, they pick the kids and parents that can attend (my wife and I had to interview along with our daughter for kindergarten) but I think the biggest factor in classroom success in private school is the huge cultural difference in the school community compared to public school. The involvement with the teacher is unbelievable. She literally knows everything that goes on with every family in class and every family knows what goes on in her life. It's literally like a large extended family. There's such a level of accountability, invested interest, and support between the parents, kids, and teachers that it's close to impossible for kids to fall behind. In most public schools, all 3 pieces of that chain are broken. Parents don't want to put in the effort with their kids, kids don't give a $#@!, and teachers are waiting for the last bell to ring.

[linux]

No it's not just that money. It's the costs going forward and the electorate that just went thru a very difficult time is probably tired of Union people not ever ever ever feeling the same pain that people in the private world do. The time of unions is done in this country, (for govt employees ESP.). Unions like the UMW still function as safety watch dogs and those are the kinds of unions that should be in place we have how many federal agencies that spend billions a year on their infrastructure to deal with employer and employee issues.

You keep skirting the issue of what's down the road if we don't make some changes in our financial house. Govt needs to do withless and unions can't continue using govt to maintain their gravy train fro their votes.

Look you are taking an extremist and unproven position and positing as fact, step away from that ledger or you will inevitably start calling for jail time.

Negotiation and discourse trump dictats. There was no state of emergency, only in Walker's feverish claims, a 150 million dollar shortfall in a biannual budget, all that worth setting the state ablaze?

[TexonLongIsland]

Not irrelevant at all. It's exactly the same thing someone earlier posted about Walker speaking in other states. There's nothing unusal about that either.

softly was hoping no one understood non sequitur.

[TexonLongIsland]

You think Local unions are only fighting Walker? Quaint^2

That would be quaint

[tantric superman]

The fact that you won't even admit the conflict of interest exists is telling. Unions want money, healthcare, pensions and protection for their members. Politicians give them that in exchange for votes and campaign contributions, which the unions deliver to them. Who represents the taxpayer again?

The fact that you won't admit that corporations buy directly is telling. I mean stupid.

[TexonLongIsland]

It seems the only people with the funds to buy elections are the "public service" unions or large corporations.

With the government becoming a larger and larger player in the economy and the unions trying to take over corporate boards their interests are becoming more and more aligned - more government spending.

[Massive Horn]

I agree with all that, including the senility, but the topic here is Walker stopping the corrupt public sector union/democrat cabal from fleecing the Wisconsin taxpayers....not his motivation.

No the topic here is that all you stupid $#@!s don't know when your being $#@!ed, or don't care as long as your team is winning. Look at all the following posts since yours.

You want to know who Scott Walker is? He's a $#@!ing dip$#@! college dropout who got kicked out of college because he continually cheated. He's a cross-eyed, closet $#@!got who $#@!ing runs his mouth about Jesus because his father was a $#@!ing preacher. He's a lackey. Which for most of you isn't a big deal, because that's what you are also. You worship at the teet of your $#@!ing party and it's candidates. Look at every $#@!ing thread here. You don't think for yourselves, someone does it for you. Being a conservative means believing what the Republicans believe. Being a liberal means the same as far as Dem's go. What about thinking for yourselves? I know. It takes some $#@!ing effort. Blame the public schools and take some borderline $#@!ing moron like Walker as your messiah. It's so much easier.

[Escriva]

I'm for dramatically increased enforcement of Section 1 of the Sherman Act, and massively increased penalties. All statutory and non-statutory labor exemptions should be revoked, so they can be subject to a souped up Section 1 as well.

[OnBoard]

No the topic here is that all you stupid $#@!s don't know when your being $#@!ed, or don't care as long as your team is winning. Look at all the following posts since yours.

You want to know who Scott Walker is? He's a $#@!ing dip$#@! college dropout who got kicked out of college because he continually cheated. He's a cross-eyed, closet $#@!got who $#@!ing runs his mouth about Jesus because his father was a $#@!ing preacher. He's a lackey. Which for most of you isn't a big deal, because that's what you are also. You worship at the teet of your $#@!ing party and it's candidates. Look at every $#@!ing thread here. You don't think for yourselves, someone does it for you. Being a conservative means believing what the Republicans believe. Being a liberal means the same as far as Dem's go. What about thinking for yourselves? I know. It takes some $#@!ing effort. Blame the public schools and take some borderline $#@!ing moron like Walker as your messiah. It's so much easier.

Heh heh heh. Wow, he's a total loser, a real POS, no skilled mutha $#@!er. He's all that and he was still able to defeat a bunch of sucking off the tit liberals who want someone else to pay for them and their lives. Interesting........... What you sound like is someone very bitter and petty that a citizenry elected someone who was able to wipe out some of the bull$#@! you seem to like.

Whatever his foibles....,and we've all learned that it's the job not the man that counts, according to democrats (SEE: Bill Clinton) so whats the big deal if he's a $#@!ing Martian ? He's saved the state money now and going forward. Maybe now Wisconsin schools will get better now that unions don't dictate how they teach and bad teachers will be ejected from the system.

Really dude, bitterness is not a pretty trait.


Viva la revolution !!!!

[Armybrat]

Heh heh heh. Wow, he's a total loser, a real POS, no skilled mutha $#@!er. He's all that and he was still able to defeat a bunch of sucking off the tit liberals who want someone else to pay for them and their lives. Interesting........... What you sound like is someone very bitter and petty that a citizenry elected someone who was able to wipe out some of the bull$#@! you seem to like.

Whatever his foibles....,and we've all learned that it's the job not the man that counts, according to democrats (SEE: Bill Clinton) so whats the big deal if he's a $#@!ing Martian ? He's saved the state money now and going forward. Maybe now Wisconsin schools will get better now that unions don't dictate how they teach and bad teachers will be ejected from the system.

Really dude, bitterness is not a pretty trait.


Viva la revolution !!!!

What he said.

And yeah, MH doesn't seem to realize his "side" is doing the worst $#@!ing of all, since they claim to be looking out for the little guy. lmao

[Not My Real Name]

No the topic here is that all you stupid $#@!s don't know when your being $#@!ed, or don't care as long as your team is winning. Look at all the following posts since yours.

You want to know who Scott Walker is? He's a $#@!ing dip$#@! college dropout who got kicked out of college because he continually cheated. He's a cross-eyed, closet $#@!got who $#@!ing runs his mouth about Jesus because his father was a $#@!ing preacher. He's a lackey. Which for most of you isn't a big deal, because that's what you are also. You worship at the teet of your $#@!ing party and it's candidates. Look at every $#@!ing thread here. You don't think for yourselves, someone does it for you. Being a conservative means believing what the Republicans believe. Being a liberal means the same as far as Dem's go. What about thinking for yourselves? I know. It takes some $#@!ing effort. Blame the public schools and take some borderline $#@!ing moron like Walker as your messiah. It's so much easier.

Heh heh heh. Wow, he's a total loser, a real POS, no skilled mutha $#@!er. He's all that and he was still able to defeat a bunch of sucking off the tit liberals who want someone else to pay for them and their lives. Interesting........... What you sound like is someone very bitter and petty that a citizenry elected someone who was able to wipe out some of the bull$#@! you seem to like.

Whatever his foibles....,and we've all learned that it's the job not the man that counts, according to democrats (SEE: Bill Clinton) so whats the big deal if he's a $#@!ing Martian ? He's saved the state money now and going forward. Maybe now Wisconsin schools will get better now that unions don't dictate how they teach and bad teachers will be ejected from the system.

Really dude, bitterness is not a pretty trait.


Viva la revolution !!!!

[YoLaDu]

He's a $#@!ing dip$#@! college dropout

Wait, he doesn't have a college degree? So, he doesn't even have the min. educational qualifications of a public school substitute teacher?

[tantric superman]

It seems the only people with the funds to buy elections are the "public service" unions or large corporations.

Yes, this is why Walker was never elected Governor, and we are only pretending he is being recalled.

I don't have any problem with what Walker is trying to do. I have a problem with you guys demonizing unions doing exactly what they are supposed to do, and trying to equal the playing field of politics.

This is the main reason we are floundering. Instead of calling our lawmakers to task, you guys are self satisfied with heaping scorn on unions and those who support them.

If a union or a plaintiff's law firm or the NLRB is giving my company a hard time, I don't waste time whining about what a sonofabitch the plaintiff or the unioin or the NLRB is. I bitch at my lawyers to turn up the heat. I give money to candidates who hate unions.

I slow clap good politics and good lawyering on the other side when it beats me up, and then I put more resources into winning next time.

[OnBoard]

Yes, this is why Walker was never elected Governor, and we are only pretending he is being recalled.

I don't have any problem with what Walker is trying to do. I have a problem with you guys demonizing unions doing exactly what they are supposed to do, and trying to equal the playing field of politics.

This is the main reason we are floundering. Instead of calling our lawmakers to task, you guys are self satisfied with heaping scorn on unions and those who support them.

If a union or a plaintiff's law firm or the NLRB is giving my company a hard time, I don't waste time whining about what a sonofabitch the plaintiff or the unioin or the NLRB is. I bitch at my lawyers to turn up the heat. I give money to candidates who hate unions.

I slow clap good politics and good lawyering on the other side when it beats me up, and then I put more resources into winning next time.

Why would a class of employees who have no competition need a union ?

Why would employees of the federal gov't need a union ?

The federal gov't has how many agencies whose sole job is the administration of equal rights for employed workers, and have the job of ensuring that they are not abused through wage inequities, working conditions or discrimination ??

Unions have served their purpose in this country, they still do in industries where life safety issues are paramount. They've become empowered above companies in some cases it seems (SEE: Boeing attempts to open a plant in the non union state of S. Carolina)

And yes corporations do the same thing. and that $#@! needs to be stopped as well.

[tantric superman]

Why would a class of employees who have no competition need a union ?

Why would employees of the federal gov't need a union ?

The federal gov't has how many agencies whose sole job is the administration of equal rights for employed workers, and have the job of ensuring that they are not abused through wage inequities, working conditions or discrimination ??

Why does anyone or any entity who gets a piece of legislation or buys a good or service "need" something?

Fundamentally, someone in government got the idea that public sector workers should be given an offer of benefits that now turns out to be way too overvalued.

Ain't nothin' but a thang, just like overvalued housing and money that is decreasing in value and us having trouble supporting entitlements and the benefits we promised veterans.

[TexonLongIsland]

Wait, he doesn't have a college degree? So, he doesn't even have the min. educational qualifications of a public school substitute teacher?

but enough educational qualifications to run Microsoft. Odd isn't?

[OnBoard]

Why does anyone or any entity who gets a piece of legislation or buys a good or service "need" something?

Fundamentally, someone in government got the idea that public sector workers should be given an offer of benefits that now turns out to be way too overvalued.

Ain't nothin' but a thang, just like overvalued housing and money that is decreasing in value and us having trouble supporting entitlements and the benefits we promised veterans.

Not following what you're asking in the first line.

Yes someone in gov't made that decision then a union evolved to chisel that into unchanging stone. The reality is that worker salaries and demands fluctuate with an ever changing economy. Gov't workers have removed any tie to the realities of the economy good or bad.

The over valued housing "thang" corrects itself. Overvalued union workers who cannot be fired doesn't correct itself and goes on sucking money till the hoist does or the people decide enough is enough. We are now (actually way late) figuring that out and some are trying to address the issue.

[tantric superman]

Yes someone in gov't made that decision

Thanks.

[YoLaDu]

but enough educational qualifications to run Microsoft. Odd isn't?

Indeed.

[linux]

A monkey in a fat suit could run Microsoft, people have no $#@!ing idea how lucky they were to be in the right place at the right time. Locking people to their software is an evil that good people have been trying hard to prevent with Apple and with MS, again.

[Chewbacca]

I have a kid in private school. Sure, they kick problem kids out. Yes, they pick the kids and parents that can attend (my wife and I had to interview along with our daughter for kindergarten) but I think the biggest factor in classroom success in private school is the huge cultural difference in the school community compared to public school.

Disagree. The biggest factor is being able to choose students and families. It's much easier to replicate the environment you describe when you can pick and choose who gets in (and who you keep out). Teachers want to teach in that kind of classroom.

[Chewbacca]

The fact that you won't admit that corporations buy directly is telling. I mean stupid.

Of course they do. Doesn't have $#@! to do with pensions or education, though. I thought that is what we were talking about.

You gonna admit unions and Dems are in each other's pockets?

[tantric superman]

You gonna admit unions and Dems are in each other's pockets?

When you admit you wear ladies underpants.

I'm hungry. Let's get a taco.

[Chewbacca]

When you admit you wear ladies underpants.

I'm hungry. Let's get a taco.

Lord, you're a child. Let me know when you're ready to talk with the grownups.

[Wulaw Horn]

I find curious the repeated assertion that taxpayers have no seat at a table which has a seat at it for their elected representative.

Rather than such reach such an obviously untrue conclusion, why are so many actively ignorant of the simple reality that our pols act as we want them to act, and that we, collectively, want our pols to act stupidly?

Seriously? You really believe this? It's interest group politics at it's best (or worst). The members of the employee union will vote 100% for the candidate that takes care of them at the expense of the taxpayer. On the other hand, there will be precious few votes lost due to giveaways b/c voters simply aren't that plugged in, knowledgeable about union contracts with the government. You can say that apathy is the problem, but it's not our pols "acting as we want them to act" it's people being to apathetic to realize what is going on. If put to a poll of taxpayers in the state- do you want to provide awesome bennies and salaries to public sector workers at great cost to you- the majority would say pass.

This doesn't absolve the electorate of their apathy, and I've always argued that people get the government they deserve, but lets not act like people wish for the government to act in this manner- they either A) Don't get that it's going on B) Don't think they can change anything or C) Don't have a clue.

[Fightin' Buck]

I agree with all that, including the senility, but the topic here is Walker stopping the corrupt public sector union/democrat cabal from fleecing the Wisconsin taxpayers....not his motivation.

This kind of rhetoric is the problem: "currupt, cabal, fleecing". I really wouldn't have a problem with Walker trying to cut a little from pensions if Wi really was that bad off. But, to come out and start slinging that $#@! around is over the top, partisan politics. What do you expect anybody to do when they are called parasites and blamed for the entirety of a states fiscal problems?

I have a kid in private school. Sure, they kick problem kids out. Yes, they pick the kids and parents that can attend (my wife and I had to interview along with our daughter for kindergarten) but I think the biggest factor in classroom success in private school is the huge cultural difference in the school community compared to public school. The involvement with the teacher is unbelievable. She literally knows everything that goes on with every family in class and every family knows what goes on in her life. It's literally like a large extended family. There's such a level of accountability, invested interest, and support between the parents, kids, and teachers that it's close to impossible for kids to fall behind. In most public schools, all 3 pieces of that chain are broken. Parents don't want to put in the effort with their kids, kids don't give a $#@!, and teachers are waiting for the last bell to ring.

Bolded part: Why do you think you were interviewed? Because if you and your wife weren't that type of parent, your kid wouldn't be in that school. If all parents were as invested as you, there wouldn't be any private schools, because there wouldn't be a need for them.

Italics: I would say that in most public schools, kids are kids, which means they generally have very little intrinsic motivation, parents fall across the entire spectrum, and most teachers struggle to do the best they can in a difficult, underpaid job, while dealing with bull$#@! and a lack of respect from parents, admin, students, and then the cherry on the $#@! sundae is $#@!s like Scott Walker who blame them for a state's financial "crisis" and other $#@!s who blame them for "failed public education".

Yes, this is why Walker was never elected Governor, and we are only pretending he is being recalled.

I don't have any problem with what Walker is trying to do. I have a problem with you guys demonizing unions doing exactly what they are supposed to do, and trying to equal the playing field of politics.

Yes. Well said.

Why would a class of employees who have no competition need a union ?

Why would employees of the federal gov't need a union ?

The federal gov't has how many agencies whose sole job is the administration of equal rights for employed workers, and have the job of ensuring that they are not abused through wage inequities, working conditions or discrimination ??

Unions have served their purpose in this country, they still do in industries where life safety issues are paramount. They've become empowered above companies in some cases it seems (SEE: Boeing attempts to open a plant in the non union state of S. Carolina)

And yes corporations do the same thing. and that $#@! needs to be stopped as well.

I can only speak for teachers, but I have answered this question already (I think). Again, I have no protection at all from not being rehired next year if I piss off the principal or a school board member when the star quarterback fails my class and he can't play in a playoff game. And hey, guess what? My principals son was the leading receiver on the football team the last two years. One of the school board's daughter is in my biology class. The band director's daughter was in my class last year. You think there wouldn't be a $#@! storm if I failed one of them?

I just had a conversation with the science teacher across the hall. She is being threatened with a lawsuit by a parent who is accusing her of changing a students grade so the student would fail. A completely ridiculous accusation, but who has her back? The elected school board? The principal who is rehired based on TAKS results and the number who pass? A union sure as hell would have her back. If it does go to the point of actually being a lawsuit, I hope to hell she is a member of a union (In Texas, about the only benefit they can provide is legal representation). Because despite being a good teacher, this bull$#@! is why she would not be rehired next year.

[Fightin' Buck]

Disagree. The biggest factor is being able to choose students and families. It's much easier to replicate the environment you describe when you can pick and choose who gets in (and who you keep out). Teachers want to teach in that kind of classroom.

On this, we agree.

[Wulaw Horn]

Disagree. The biggest factor is being able to choose students and families. It's much easier to replicate the environment you describe when you can pick and choose who gets in (and who you keep out). Teachers want to teach in that kind of classroom.

This. And some teachers are waiting for the last bell, but that's probably b/c their work is a beat down. Almost everyone I know that went in to teaching did so with passion and the desire to be good at it- I know some that were- if you can't do teach- but those were rare. A teacher in the environment that was described about your private school will love their job- it really- except in very rare instances (good and bad) is not about the teacher. And b/c that's the case that's my argument why teachers (run of the mill) don't need to be highly compensated. They are a widget more than most believe (it's not a knock- most of us in every profession are). It's plug and play and one's about the same as another- except on the extremes.

[tantric superman]

Lord, you're a child. Let me know when you're ready to talk with the grownups.

You're like a moron. Try to keep up.

[Chewbacca]

This kind of rhetoric is the problem: "currupt, cabal, fleecing". I really wouldn't have a problem with Walker trying to cut a little from pensions if Wi really was that bad off. But, to come out and start slinging that $#@! around is over the top, partisan politics. What do you expect anybody to do when they are called parasites and blamed for the entirety of a states fiscal problems?

I thought I was clear on this but apparently I was not. My comments are not aimed at the teachers, they are strictly for the union. Yes, there is a difference. When I have issues with teachers is when they start in on the whole 'But you PROMISED!' line of bull$#@! reasoning when people talk about cutting retiree benefits. Promises can and do have to change before we're bankrupt. Nobody complained in the late 90s when benefits were increased. They can also be decreased.

[Chewbacca]

You're like a moron. Try to keep up.

Shhh. The kids table is over there.

[OnBoard]

Thanks.

Hey me saying someone in gov't made that decision doesn't really help you sport. For 1, I could be wrong about how that decision was arrived at and approved. 2, That person could have been in a gov't union and just passed on the sweet heart deal to his fellow comrades. C'mon man, you're better than the gotcha bull$#@! most people have to use to back up an argument.

[OnBoard]

A monkey in a fat suit could run Microsoft, people have no $#@!ing idea how lucky they were to be in the right place at the right time. Locking people to their software is an evil that good people have been trying hard to prevent with Apple and with MS, again.

My mind has just been blooooooooown away. "Any monkey in a fat suit could run microsoft" Please use this argument from here on out any time someone you agree with does something "great" in your mind. Your response is worthy of chiseling into the stone tablets of worlds most idiotic statements this year (nothing personal mind you, as I am an ardent Apple devotee).

I mean really, a monkey in a fat suit COULD certainly see that software was the important thing, not hardware... those old stupid heads over at IBM don't know nothin'.........

[Chewbacca]

My mind has just been blooooooooown away. "Any monkey in a fat suit could run microsoft" Please use this argument from here on out any time someone you agree with does something "great" in your mind. Your response is worthy of chiseling into the stone tablets of worlds most idiotic statements this year (nothing personal mind you, as I am an ardent Apple devotee).

I mean really, a monkey in a fat suit COULD certainly see that software was the important thing, not hardware... those old stupid heads over at IBM don't know nothin'.........

Of course he didn't say Appple. You gotta be really smart and stuff to run Apple. But MSFT runs itself.

[tantric superman]

Hey me saying someone in gov't made that decision doesn't really help you sport. For 1, I could be wrong about how that decision was arrived at and approved.

No, you are right, Sporty Spice. It was a government decision to cave into the unions.

2, That person could have been in a gov't union and just passed on the sweet heart deal to his fellow comrades.

Which was based on the decisions the government made in the first place.

C'mon man, you're better than the gotcha bull$#@! most people have to use to back up an argument.

I don't need gotcha bull$#@!, because this isn't even elementary school complicated. It takes two to tango. The unions ask for something, and the government agrees.

[Wulaw Horn]

My mind has just been blooooooooown away. "Any monkey in a fat suit could run microsoft" Please use this argument from here on out any time someone you agree with does something "great" in your mind. Your response is worthy of chiseling into the stone tablets of worlds most idiotic statements this year (nothing personal mind you, as I am an ardent Apple devotee).

I mean really, a monkey in a fat suit COULD certainly see that software was the important thing, not hardware... those old stupid heads over at IBM don't know nothin'.........

You are talking to the same guy who had to flip a coin 1,000 times (even after he'd been blasted by about 100 different people) to figure out the simplest end of game probability situation I've ever seen involving go for 2 or kick.

[Wulaw Horn]

Of course he didn't say Appple. You gotta be really smart and stuff to run Apple. But MSFT runs itself.

Not only does it run itself now- but it was inevitable that it would exist and be the behemoth that it is today- Bill Gates was just super lucky (with a dash of evil thrown in). I think there's really no difference between him and the guy that won the powerball.

[tantric superman]

I thought I was clear on this but apparently I was not. My comments are not aimed at the teachers, they are strictly for the union. Yes, there is a difference. When I have issues with teachers is when they start in on the whole 'But you PROMISED!' line of bull$#@! reasoning when people talk about cutting retiree benefits. Promises can and do have to change before we're bankrupt. Nobody complained in the late 90s when benefits were increased. They can also be decreased.

This is what happens when someone doesn't distinguish between a promise -- for instance, a promise made in a campaign. And a contract. For instance, one that his an agreement between two parties. And for which arguing for the upholding of the contract is never "bull$#@! reasoning".

That everyone has to give up something is a great argument.

[OnBoard]

No, you are right, Sporty Spice. It was a government decision to cave into the unions.



Which was based on the decisions the government made in the first place.



I don't need gotcha bull$#@!, because this isn't even elementary school complicated. It takes two to tango. The unions ask for something, and the government agrees.

The gov't as in the non elected civil servants who run the day to day operations of gov't. They never leave office and only acquire more leverage thru their own written rules and regs. There's some chicken and egg stuff going on with gov't and union collusion.

[Chewbacca]

This is what happens when someone doesn't distinguish between a promise -- for instance, a promise made in a campaign. And a contract. For instance, one that his an agreement between two parties. And for which arguing for the upholding of the contract is never "bull$#@! reasoning".

That everyone has to give up something is a great argument.

That promise is going to bankrupt Colorado (and many other states) unless it is changed. This is not my opinion, it is fact. The current unfunded liability for our state alone is north of $20 billion the last time I checked, and growing every year. That is larger than the entire state's budget for this year. It's still growing, too, because the PERA trustees are still using 8% returns to calculate the amounts that are put away for future retirees, but the investments are currently invested extremely conservatively and only cranking out 2-3%. Guess who makes up the majority of the PERA trustee board? Retirees who are also collecting PERA paychecks. They told our state Treasurer to get $#@!ed (he's on the board, too) when he proposed changes.

All the hand wringing, gnashing of teeth and stomping of feet in the world can't change that these facts. And no, I do not believe taxpayers should just have to pony up an additional $20 billion because politicians made unrealistic promises. That's roughly $4000 for every man, woman and child in this state so we can keep promises to roughly 200,000 PERA members. I would be asked to write a $16,000 check just so current and retired teachers, cops and firefighters don't have to feel any pain in the current recession. Sorry, $#@! that.

Taxpayers have been giving for a long, long time in our state. It's time the unions and PERA return the favor and actually give something up. Their current plan involves more taxpayer funds.

[tantric superman]

The gov't as in the non elected civil servants who run the day to day operations of gov't. They never leave office and only acquire more leverage thru their own written rules and regs. There's some chicken and egg stuff going on with gov't and union collusion.

You can pretend there is some chicken and egg or synergy, but every union contract involves two parties. Just as the auto industries dug a hole for themselves in their dealings with unions, the state governments dug a whole for themselves.

There is no magic spontaneous generation going on in the unions ability to get benefits for their employees.

If I cut a deal with you where you pay me a nickel this month and double it every month until we are 80, you aren't screwing yourself in twenty years. You are screwing yourelf now.

That states have to extricate themselves from this is a real issue. But blaming the unions is basically unamerican. They kicked ass then, and now the states have to kick their ass. No hard feelings.

[Wulaw Horn]

Tantric- although I agree with you that the union is only doing there job in trying to rep their people (duh- it's advocacy), are you disagreeing with the contetion that basically they are a parasite on the body politic? Both can easily be true (and I think they are in this instance).

[Wulaw Horn]

You can pretend there is some chicken and egg or synergy, but every union contract involves two parties. Just as the auto industries dug a hole for themselves in their dealings with unions, the state governments dug a whole for themselves.

There is no magic spontaneous generation going on in the unions ability to get benefits for their employees.

If I cut a deal with you where you pay me a nickel this month and double it every month until we are 80, you aren't screwing yourself in twenty years. You are screwing yourelf now.

That states have to extricate themselves from this is a real issue. But blaming the unions is basically unamerican. They kicked ass then, and now the states have to kick their ass. No hard feelings.

But the states don't have the same incentive to kick their ass as private sector does, b/c they are essentially on the same side of the bargaining table- disagree?

[tantric superman]

But the states don't have the same incentive to kick their ass as private sector does, b/c they are essentially on the same side of the bargaining table- disagree?

Depends on who is running the state.

Has Walker proven himself to be the lapdog of the unions?

[GopherRock]

Getting back to the point of the thread: Scott Walker answering a recall election.

I find it telling that Walker has spent an uncontested $12 million on ads already and still can't get out of the mid-40 for either approval or likely voter preference polls. I do think that he's going to be tossed once the Dems have their primary. Also, a highly unscientific poll of signage on I-94 between MSP and Madison shows that Walker is toast.

All of this recall business makes me glad that Tom Emmer didn't win the 2010 Minnesota governor's race.

Finally, I don't get why most of you have a blind hatred of organized labor.

[Chewbacca]

Tantric- although I agree with you that the union is only doing there job in trying to rep their people (duh- it's advocacy), are you disagreeing with the contetion that basically they are a parasite on the body politic? Both can easily be true (and I think they are in this instance).

Good luck getting a straight answer