That doesn't mean there isn't a bit of groupthink involved, but that's just human nature.
Hard to give a coach credit for winning with a player he fought tooth and nail against allowing on the field, and who in the end did in fact succeed in sabotaging.
Last edited by aggie08; 04-24-2012 at 04:41 PM.
In VY's 49 career starts, his team has scored over 20 points a grand total of 21 times (inluding zero times last year when he was allowed to throw the ball all over the field). That's not very good. For reference, the only playoff teams from last year to average less points than VY does when he starts (21.8) were TEBOW and Cinci. He needed a LOT of help to get 31 wins.
Last edited by aggie08; 04-24-2012 at 05:04 PM.
Playoff teams are the best. I don't see how stating that VY averages fewer points than playoff teams is a bad thing. BTW you forgot Pittsburgh as well.For reference, the only playoff teams from last year to average less points than VY does when he starts (21.8) were TEBOW and Cinci. He needed a LOT of help to get 31 wins.
20 whole points? That's why I also brought in his average...to be fair to him and not make it seem like the team was scoring 10 points all the other times. If I wanted to be a $#@!, I could have said VY has only surpassed 24 points (still a pretty damn low number in today's NFL) 17 times. How many times are you going to win an NFL football game scoring exactly 20 points (while turning the ball over personally 1-2 times a game)without a solid running game and oppurtunistic defense?
The average team score in an NFL game is between 20 and 21 points, so scoring around 20 points a game doesn't say much one way or the other.
Vince's problem now is he's been writing his phone number on the Texans' bathroom wall for a couple of months. If the Texans wanted him, they would have said something by now.
Vince was virtually unbeaten in the game of football, and a known leader of men, until Tennessee.
Give Fisher credit? you've gotta be kidding. Because of Fisher we'll never know what Vince could have done in the NFL with the standard support any top QB draft pick gets.
This is a backstabbing $#@!er who stood up in front of cameras faking concern about VY's mental health while orchestrating an attack on Vince behind the scenes.
I'm not surprised that Aggies give Fisher credit. He's $#@!ing hero-material for aggies.
Fisher does suffer from little man syndrome. And Polian's grades are insane, of course. Vince will be signed, no doubt. But it's likely true that his career as a starting QB is over.
No, you wont EVER $#@!ing see anyone here at shaggybevo.com give Jeff Fisher credit for even the tiniest modi$#@! of success that VY enjoyed in Tennessee. I liked you as a poster until very recently, and you have shown your ass so $#@!ing bad when it comes to VY it's like you couldnt even help but remind us all that youre an aggie. Go look at Fisher's W/L from 2006-present with and without Vince, and then go look at his W/L record when Tennessee had a bad defense, with and without Vince. So no. $#@! no. $#@! NO MAN. I'm dead serious when I say you deserve to get your ass kicked for saying something like that you uninformed aggie piece of trash. I didnt even bother reading the rest of that tripe. What a bunch of $#@!ing garbage. Vince Young owes Jeff Fisher for his success. ARE YOU INSANE?!?!?!?!
Last edited by Derka Derka; 04-24-2012 at 10:42 PM.
Fisher: "I want you to stay in Nashville and rehab."
VY: "Coach, I'm fine, I have a restaurant to open in Austin and I'll be 100% ready to go with the rest of my teammates when I get back.
Fisher: "Vince's leg is still hurt, he's having problems with his mobbility, Kerry will get the start."
VY: nothing. He didnt say anything. NOTHING, knowing full well that his head coach was BENCHING HIM because of a personal vendetta, Vince Young didnt say a goddamn word. NOT. A. $#@!ING. WORD.
Then, the game actually happened, and guess what? Kerry Collins got hurt. VY caame in, and on his very first play came under heavy pressure, eluded the rush, burst to the outside, and ran the ball for a twelve yard gain and a first down, showing zero sings of injury.
So no, you $#@!ing uninformed $#@! waffle, Jeff Fisher does NOT deserve any sort of credit at all for ANY of VY's successes, and to intimate that is literally dumber than rating VY an F as an NFL QB. Congratulations, youve now said the stupidest $#@! involved in this entire thread.
Last edited by Derka Derka; 04-24-2012 at 10:35 PM.
Jeff Fisher is all smoke and mirrors. VY proved that Fisher wasn't worth a $#@! coaching wise. I'll tell you who misses VY the most is CJ. Johnson isn't near as good without him in the backfield.
Holy $#@! bro you take $#@! you have absolutely no control over way too seriously. $#@!ing breath. I was kidding when I said dude in video (you) needs a life, but I guess I struck a nerve.
The sad part is I actually really liked watching VY in college, his rookie year, and parts of 2009 (the rest of his career has been meh, at best). He USED to be able to do things no one else could do, and I've always been a fan of guys like that, regardless of baggage (Moss, A.I., etc). But people like you are so $#@!ing irrational you just make it impossible to root for the guy.
To completely deny that he owes even a sliver of his record to being drafted to a Jeff Fisher style, defensive minded team is just revisionist history. I mean had a team like Cleveland drafted him would he still even be in the league? I was told he would excel the second he had quality coaching and players yet he sucked worse than he ever did under Fisher in Philly.
Vince Young is a BAD $#@!! Don't really care about that NFL $#@! too much. Just had four Margaritas though, so i'm not sure that I'd pay too much attention to what I have to say, except the part where VY is a BAD $#@!!
It gets even worse. After the Miami game, in order to deflect criticism for not starting Vince, Fisher put out a bull$#@! report that Vince actually asked not to start. Reporters then started questioning VY's "toughness." VY bristled at the questions and was obviously feeling ganged up on.
Fisher always figured out how to spin things to be VY's fault. He missed his calling. He should have been a propaganda minister for a third world dictatorship.
Revisionist history? You're a stupid $#@!. Nobody is revising history. What a dumb thing to say. Bud Adams is the one who doomed VY to play under Jeff Fisher, and in that offense. Vince doesn't owe Fisher, or anybody. Vince's record could have been better or worse depending on the team that picked him. It could have been better at Tennessee if Fisher didn't have a conflict of interest deeply rooted in his own butthurt.To completely deny that he owes even a sliver of his record to being drafted to a Jeff Fisher style, defensive minded team is just revisionist history
is $#@!ing retarded for a multitude of reasons, but I'll only name two. First, he was a $#@!ing backup in Philly, you dip$#@!, so dont even pretend that the situations are even remotely similar; secondly, he DID do well in Philly you $#@!wad. Everyone remembers the Seattle game because, hey, he $#@!ing sucked ass in that game. But none of you $#@!s remember what happened in the two weeks prior. First:I was told he would excel the second he had quality coaching and players yet he sucked worse than he ever did under Fisher in Philly.
Vince Young rallies undermanned Eagles past Giants late in 4th
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- The Eagles destroyed the Giants' season a year ago at the Meadowlands with a 28-point onslaught in the final seven minutes.
This time, Andy Reid's undermanned team used the slow and excruciating method to hurt the Giants once again and tighten the NFC East race.
The Giants had a chance to run away from the rest of the NFC East, but two straight losses have brought them back to the pack. Using a quarterback whose only pass this season had been intercepted to replace Michael Vick and a receiver who did not have a catch all season, Philadelphia marched 80 yards in a roughly 9 minutes and defeated the Giants 17-10 Sunday night on an 8-yard go-ahead touchdown pass from Vince Young to Riley Cooper with 2:45 to play.
"We knew we had to dig deep," said Cooper who had his first five catches of the season for 75 yards, with the final 8 being the difference in breathing life into the Eagles (4-6).
"Everybody contributed," Cooper said. "It was not just one player, not just one long play. We pieced that last drive together piece by piece."
What was so surprising was that the "Dream Team" did it in the fourth quarter, a period that had seen them lose five games earlier this season.
The Eagles found the solution this time with an 18-play march over 8:51 that sent the Giants (6-4) to their second straight loss.
"It's definitely a big win," said Young, who was 23 of 36 for 258 yards, two touchdown and three interceptions. "You see the excitement and the smiles on the guys and that's what we need, what we have to have."
One For The Ages
Vince Young and the Eagles orchestrated a masterful final drive Sunday night, scoring the game-winning touchdown on a series of plays that left the Giants with almost no time to counter. Philadelphia converted six third-down plays with DeSean Jackson setting up the first-and-goal with a 10-yard catch to the 10, and Young capping it with his second touchdown pass of the game to a wide-open Cooper.
"We were taking our time, making plays and the guys came up with big plays on third down," Young said.
Jackson, who was benched for last week's game for missing a team meeting, finished with six catches for 88 yards and set up a touchdown pass to former Giant Steve Smith with a 51-yard punt return. LeSean McCoy added 113 yards rushing, with 60 coming on a late run that iced the game.
"Vince, stepping in for the great Michael Vick, that's a tough thing to do and he did it and the guys rallied around him," Reid said. "The offensive line and defensive line played well, the offensive line had a huge challenge when it counted and they were able to put some things together."
Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention that Vick lost AT HOME to these same Giants, except that he had a healthy Jeremy Maclin, and Vince didnt. Oh yeah, VY also got zero (literally) first team reps before Vick was injured. So there's that.
He also led the team in rushing on 6 carries. But yeah, great call there bro!The way Tom Brady was getting everyone involved, it's a surprise no linemen or linebackers caught passes.
Brady threw for 361 yards and three touchdowns and the New England Patriots beat the Eagles 38-20 Sunday in a rematch of the 2005 Super Bowl.
More Patriots-Eagles Coverage
With unusual candor, coach Bill Belichick gave the Patriots credit for their mental toughness, writes Mike Reiss. Story
Forsberg With surgical precision, Patriots quarterback Tom Brady put any injury worries to rest, writes Chris Forsberg. Story
• Pats Center | Pats Blog | ESPN Boston
A disastrously disappointing season for the Philadelphia Eagles and star wide receiver DeSean Jackson may have hit bottom on Sunday, writes Dan Graziano. Blog
Filling in for the injured Michael Vick for the second straight game, Vince Young couldn't keep Philadelphia's fading playoff hopes alive despite throwing for a career-best 400 yards passing.
Moving on to your "revisionist history", you continue to throw $#@! against the wall praying it will stick. I watched every game VY played in Tennessee. I can vouch for myself and LonghornSean that we watched that $#@!ass team every Sunday when VY was starting, and I, like LonghornSean and many other Texas/VY fans here, followed that team and that situation very closely over that period of time, and our knowledge on the subject so far surpasses anything you could possibly know, that it's laughable that you even attempt to make an argument. He owes Fisher nothing. Fisher owes Vince a $#@!ing lot.
After Keith Bullock and Albert Haynesworth, aka the two best defensive players on the team (besides Vanden Bosch) left Tennessee (Which Vanden Bosh and Stephen Tulloch also dide....hmmm....) left the club, both of them spoke out in support of Vince and against Fisher. KB said, "How many starting quarterbacks in this league do you know who get benched in the 2nd game of the season for having a bad game? And against the Steelers?". Haynesworth actually came out and said that VY was a tremendous talent who would never succeed in Tennessee as long as Jeff Fisher was there, because Fish had it out for him. I already told you the story of Jeff Fisher benching VY and claiming it was due to a nonexistent injury. Kenny Britt wore a towel that said, "VY #10" on it after VY was benched. The NFL fined him $10,000. He did it again the next week. Bo Scaife, the franchise TE, was asked about the situation, and in a 3 minute interview said, "This league is about winning games" 5 different times, and said he didnt know why VY was on the bench when all he did was win. Scaife was a healthy scratch from the next game so that Fisher could call up a D Lineman from the practice squad. You had a TE making top 5 money on the sitting on the bench as you try to make the playoffs because he stood up for his teammate, and against his coach. Randy Moss was in town for all of two weeks before he personally called the local sports station to trash Jeff Fisher. When the Titans announced they would not be re-signing VY, despite Fisher being gone, Stephen Tulloch, a Pro Bowler, the leading tackler in the NFL, and one of the leaders of the locker room tweeted, "So hurt and confused. dont understand why we're letting out franchise QB go. Going to miss VY." And as has been mentioned, CJ2K was especially hurt, and tweeted similar tweets. His career has also nose dived since VY left town.
Now then, you uninformed, mouth breathing, sheep $#@!ing assfaget, has your inane point been refuted and your opinion been eviscerated enough for you to shut the $#@! up on the matter, or sould we start debating McGee vs McCoy? McNeal vs VY? Terrance Farmer vs Roy Williams? Courtney Lewis vs Ced Benson? SHould I keep going with the deluded list of aggies who better than their Longhorn counterparts, or have you been beaten enough for one day?
Last edited by Derka Derka; 04-25-2012 at 12:56 AM.
If Fisher's a defensively minded coach, his defensive mind must be regarded.
From 2006-2007 Tennessee was 19th in points allowed and and 21st in yards allowed. From 2009-2010 they were 21st points allowed and and 30th in points. These were the seasons that VY started and they had a bottom third defense.
The reason everyone views Fisher as defensively minded is his cop 'stache that makes me a little Bernard and 2008.
Even if you factor in Fisher's one year as a defensive genius, they were 21st in yards allowed and and 12th points allowed from 2006-2010. This defensively minded coach produced at best a middle third defense using Greg Davis math.
If you view 2008 as an aberration where a below average defensive coach lucked into a good defense that could carry recently sober Kerry Collins, you'll see that without a top 5 defense, the Titans were among the NFL's worst without VY (by my count something like 3-15) and playoff calibre (winning a little over 63% of the time averages out to a little over 10 wins a full season) with him.
Last edited by VYFanboy; 04-25-2012 at 01:14 AM.
VY's winning percentage with the Titans is .638. From 2006-2010, Pittsburgh has the NFL's 4th best winning percentage at .638.
The Titans' winning percentage without VY or a top2 defense is about .167. From 2006-2010 the Lions are the NFL's worst team with a winning percentage of .225.
Fisher was never the reason for their defensive success anyway. That would be Jim Schwartz, who did an impressive job of getting players to come play for him in Detroit. One of the best? The aforementioned Kyle Vanden Bosch, the $#@!ing heart and soul of the Tennessee defense. He jumped ship from a Tennessee team that was in the playoff hunt every year for a team that was a year removed from 0-16. But hey, I'm sure that means nothing. Nothing at all.
There should be a documentary (I'm thinking 30 for 30 style) with all the behind the scenes $#@! from the whole VY/Fisher saga. Some real truth would be a nice change.
tl:dr...seriously. But I can only assume it contains a billion original sheep $#@!ing insults and a million excuses for why VY threw 9 picks in 13 quarters of football.
The funny part is, I only received one neg rep from this thread (an f bomb laden tirade presumably from derka) and 4 pos reps from people saying "sad but true" on VY or tired of derka's look at me bull$#@!. It's just a game and it's just an Internet forum...adjust your priorities accordingly before you give yourself a heart attack. Literally dude, I'm worried.
VY gets an F.......
For being $#@!ing awesome
You can just easily say that Fisher's overly conservative offense limited Vince's development and hurt his chances at production as you can say that the conservative offense protected Vince.
If Fisher had been Vince's coach in high school, he would have moved him to wide receiver, and I think you know what I mean by that.
I also don't think aggie08 has the shoulder to take Derka
I remember the Giants game in 2010. They kept feeding it to Chris Johnson with little effect. I saw Vince heading to the huddle shaking his head. He knew they were handcuffing him.
I know you are obsessed with VY in an unhealthy way but this tells me you are either a bigger moron than I would have ever imagined or you are around 15 years old.
It's a shame we couldn't see VY develop under Reid. There was potential there, despite what all the idiot commentators say.
Get used to it. Vince will be carrying a clipboard for whatever is left of his NFL career. He should have lost 25+lbs. 3 seasons ago.
Let me get this straight, so Fisher should get some credit for VY's winning record? Fisher is 24-41 since 2004 in games not started by Vince, and 54-58 overall. Vince went 30-17. If not for Vince, Fisher may no longer be in coaching.
Fisher $#@!ed Vince over. Now Fisher has a job, and Vince does not.
Vince doesn't need to thank Fisher for $#@!.
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