Now I'm seriously convinced that VY is DONE as an NFL football player

[borna_horn]

Thought it would be interesting to see how Polian's grades match up with winning percentages since 2006:

Polian's grades in bold

1. Tom Brady - 66-15 (.815)
2. Peyton Manning - 61-19 (.763)
3. Matt Ryan - 43-19 (.694) A
4. Joe Flacco - 44-20 (.688) A
5. Aaron Rodgers - 41-21 (.661) A
6. Ben Roethlisberger - 58-30 (.659) A
7. Philip Rivers - 63-33 (.656) A
8. Drew Brees - 62-33 (.653)
9. Vince Young - 31-19 (.620) F
10. Tony Romo - 47-30 (.610)
11. Eli Manning - 57-39 (.594) A
12. Mark Sanchez - 27-20 (.574) C
12. (tie) Jake Delhomme - 27-20 (.574)
14. Mike Vick - 22-18 (.550) B
15. Donovan McNabb - 38-34-1 (.527)
16. Rex Grossman - 21-19 (.525) D
17. Jay Cutler - 41-37 (.523) A
18. Matt Cassel - 28-26 (.519)
19. Alex Smith - 30-29 (.508) C
20. David Garrard - 34-34 (.500)
20. (tie) Tavaris Jackson - 17-17 (.500)
20. (tie) Shaun Hill - 13-13 (.500)
23. Matt Schaub - 32-34 (.485)
24. Matt Hasselbeck - 36-41 (.468)
25. Kyle Orton - 25-29 (.463)
26. Matt Stafford - 13-16 (.448) C
27. Jason Campbell - 31-39 (.443) C
28. Carson Palmer - 33-44 (.429) A
29. Josh Freeman - 17-23 (.425)
30. Trent Edwards - 14-24 (.424)
31. Chad Henne - 13-18 (.419)
32. Derek Anderson - 18-25 (.419)
33. Ryan Fitzpatrick - 17-28 (.378)
34. J.P. Losman - 9-16 (.360) F
35. Sam Bradford - 8-18 (.308)
36. Bruce Gradkowski - 6-14 (.300)
37. Colt McCoy - 6-15 (.286)
37. (tie) Seneca Wallace - 6-15 (.286)

[Derka Derka]

Thought it would be interesting to see how Polian's grades match up with winning percentages since 2006:

Polian's grades in bold

1. Tom Brady - 66-15 (.815)
2. Peyton Manning - 61-19 (.763)
3. Matt Ryan - 43-19 (.694) A
4. Joe Flacco - 44-20 (.688) A
5. Aaron Rodgers - 41-21 (.661) A
6. Ben Roethlisberger - 58-30 (.659) A
7. Philip Rivers - 63-33 (.656) A
8. Drew Brees - 62-33 (.653)
9. Vince Young - 31-19 (.620) F
10. Tony Romo - 47-30 (.610)
11. Eli Manning - 57-39 (.594) A
12. Mark Sanchez - 27-20 (.574) C
12. (tie) Jake Delhomme - 27-20 (.574)
14. Mike Vick - 22-18 (.550) B
15. Donovan McNabb - 38-34-1 (.527)
16. Rex Grossman - 21-19 (.525) D
17. Jay Cutler - 41-37 (.523) A
18. Matt Cassel - 28-26 (.519)
19. Alex Smith - 30-29 (.508) C
20. David Garrard - 34-34 (.500)
20. (tie) Tavaris Jackson - 17-17 (.500)
20. (tie) Shaun Hill - 13-13 (.500)
23. Matt Schaub - 32-34 (.485)
24. Matt Hasselbeck - 36-41 (.468)
25. Kyle Orton - 25-29 (.463)
26. Matt Stafford - 13-16 (.448) C
27. Jason Campbell - 31-39 (.443) C
28. Carson Palmer - 33-44 (.429) A
29. Josh Freeman - 17-23 (.425)
30. Trent Edwards - 14-24 (.424)
31. Chad Henne - 13-18 (.419)
32. Derek Anderson - 18-25 (.419)
33. Ryan Fitzpatrick - 17-28 (.378)
34. J.P. Losman - 9-16 (.360) F
35. Sam Bradford - 8-18 (.308)
36. Bruce Gradkowski - 6-14 (.300)
37. Colt McCoy - 6-15 (.286)
37. (tie) Seneca Wallace - 6-15 (.286)

Especially hilarious when you consider the talent surrounding these quarterbacks. Every QB who is anywhere near VY in that list had a MUCH better offensive supporting cast from 2006-2010, and many had a better defense too. You let me know the win % of Sanchez and VY if we give VY the Jets players and coaches, and throw the Sanchize over to Nashville.

[borna_horn]

Did I just read a post by you on Horn Fans saying "VY was a better runner in 2003 than Earl ever was in college."??

I know you are obsessed with VY in an unhealthy way but this tells me you are either a bigger moron than I would have ever imagined or you are around 15 years old.

A) Vince averaged 7.4 yards a carry his freshman year. He was unreal running the ball, and I stand by the statement that no player in Longhorn history ever ran the ball like that.

B) The fact that you respond to me on ShaggyBevo for a post I made on Hornfans....tells me you are either a bigger moron than I would have ever imagined or you are around 15 years old.

C) You should seek therapy. You are just $#@!ing WEIRD.

[GiantHorns]

A) Vince averaged 7.4 yards a carry his freshman year. He was unreal running the ball, and I stand by the statement that no player in Longhorn history ever ran the ball like that.

B) The fact that you respond to me on ShaggyBevo for a post I made on Hornfans....tells me you are either a bigger moron than I would have ever imagined or you are around 15 years old.

C) You should seek therapy. You are just $#@!ing WEIRD.

I don't really post on Horn Fans however if I did I would have been censored for calling you a moron. You are just plain delusional to put VY over Earl Campbell as a runner. I realize you are probably of the Justin Boever generation and you never saw Earl, however you need to get a grip.

[FuckinA]

Thought it would be interesting to see how Polian's grades match up with winning percentages since 2006:

Polian's grades in bold

1. Tom Brady - 66-15 (.815)
2. Peyton Manning - 61-19 (.763)
3. Matt Ryan - 43-19 (.694) A
4. Joe Flacco - 44-20 (.688) A
5. Aaron Rodgers - 41-21 (.661) A
6. Ben Roethlisberger - 58-30 (.659) A
7. Philip Rivers - 63-33 (.656) A
8. Drew Brees - 62-33 (.653)
9. Vince Young - 31-19 (.620) F
10. Tony Romo - 47-30 (.610)
11. Eli Manning - 57-39 (.594) A
12. Mark Sanchez - 27-20 (.574) C
12. (tie) Jake Delhomme - 27-20 (.574)
14. Mike Vick - 22-18 (.550) B
15. Donovan McNabb - 38-34-1 (.527)
16. Rex Grossman - 21-19 (.525) D
17. Jay Cutler - 41-37 (.523) A
18. Matt Cassel - 28-26 (.519)
19. Alex Smith - 30-29 (.508) C
20. David Garrard - 34-34 (.500)
20. (tie) Tavaris Jackson - 17-17 (.500)
20. (tie) Shaun Hill - 13-13 (.500)
23. Matt Schaub - 32-34 (.485)
24. Matt Hasselbeck - 36-41 (.468)
25. Kyle Orton - 25-29 (.463)
26. Matt Stafford - 13-16 (.448) C
27. Jason Campbell - 31-39 (.443) C
28. Carson Palmer - 33-44 (.429) A
29. Josh Freeman - 17-23 (.425)
30. Trent Edwards - 14-24 (.424)
31. Chad Henne - 13-18 (.419)
32. Derek Anderson - 18-25 (.419)
33. Ryan Fitzpatrick - 17-28 (.378)
34. J.P. Losman - 9-16 (.360) F
35. Sam Bradford - 8-18 (.308)
36. Bruce Gradkowski - 6-14 (.300)
37. Colt McCoy - 6-15 (.286)
37. (tie) Seneca Wallace - 6-15 (.286)

Yeah but Carson Palmer and Jay Cutler are white

[Pharmer]

Thought it would be interesting to see how Polian's grades match up with winning percentages since 2006:

Polian's grades in bold

1. Tom Brady - 66-15 (.815)
2. Peyton Manning - 61-19 (.763)
3. Matt Ryan - 43-19 (.694) A
4. Joe Flacco - 44-20 (.688) A
5. Aaron Rodgers - 41-21 (.661) A
6. Ben Roethlisberger - 58-30 (.659) A
7. Philip Rivers - 63-33 (.656) A
8. Drew Brees - 62-33 (.653)
9. Vince Young - 31-19 (.620) F
10. Tony Romo - 47-30 (.610)
11. Eli Manning - 57-39 (.594) A
12. Mark Sanchez - 27-20 (.574) C
12. (tie) Jake Delhomme - 27-20 (.574)
14. Mike Vick - 22-18 (.550) B
15. Donovan McNabb - 38-34-1 (.527)
16. Rex Grossman - 21-19 (.525) D
17. Jay Cutler - 41-37 (.523) A
18. Matt Cassel - 28-26 (.519)
19. Alex Smith - 30-29 (.508) C
20. David Garrard - 34-34 (.500)
20. (tie) Tavaris Jackson - 17-17 (.500)
20. (tie) Shaun Hill - 13-13 (.500)
23. Matt Schaub - 32-34 (.485)
24. Matt Hasselbeck - 36-41 (.468)
25. Kyle Orton - 25-29 (.463)
26. Matt Stafford - 13-16 (.448) C
27. Jason Campbell - 31-39 (.443) C
28. Carson Palmer - 33-44 (.429) A
29. Josh Freeman - 17-23 (.425)
30. Trent Edwards - 14-24 (.424)
31. Chad Henne - 13-18 (.419)
32. Derek Anderson - 18-25 (.419)
33. Ryan Fitzpatrick - 17-28 (.378)
34. J.P. Losman - 9-16 (.360) F
35. Sam Bradford - 8-18 (.308)
36. Bruce Gradkowski - 6-14 (.300)
37. Colt McCoy - 6-15 (.286)
37. (tie) Seneca Wallace - 6-15 (.286)

Winning percentage as a standard of who's good and who's bad is ridiculous and you know it. You really want to tell me that Matt Ryan is better than Eli as a QB just because he's lost fewer games? Matt Ryan has never won a Super Bowl much less appeared in one.

[borna_horn]

Then why did all the QBs in the top 10 get A's except VY? EVERY SINGLE $#@!ING ONE OF THEM

You are using lazy thinking. Winning does not paint the entire picture, but it is part of it, a big one in fact. To say that a guy with VY's wins gets a C would be one thing. But to give him an F is ludicrous.

[re-Vitiligo allstar]

I only looked at the first page of the thread and it pissed me off so much that i couldnt read any further

[Biff Tannen]

I only looked at the first page of the thread and it pissed me off so much that i couldnt read any further

Yes, I read the whole thing and this is my only reaction.

[formermav43]

Winning percentage as a standard of who's good and who's bad is ridiculous and you know it. You really want to tell me that Matt Ryan is better than Eli as a QB just because he's lost fewer games? Matt Ryan has never won a Super Bowl much less appeared in one.

Neither of those is the end all of how to evaluate a player, they are just pieces of evidence. So maybe not Matt Ryan, but, for example, while Eli has improved, I would argue that Jim Kelly and Dan Marino were both better, and neither won a Super Bowl.

[zzzz]

Any chance I'll see Jeff Fisher get a little $#@!ing credit for VY's W-L record on Shaggy before the world ends?

No. So feel free to troll an SEC board. That's where you belong now.

[cale]

The mafia, the Cubans, and the CIA killed Kenedy. The government faked the moon landing. Spaceships from outer space did land in New Mexico. Jeff Fisher and Bill Polin are behind a massive and league wide conspiracy to keep VY out of the league. I believe this. I really do believe this. I really do.

[Derka Derka]

The mafia, the Cubans, and the CIA killed Kenedy. The government faked the moon landing. Spaceships from outer space did land in New Mexico. Jeff Fisher and Bill Polin are behind a massive and league wide conspiracy to keep VY out of the league. I believe this. I really do believe this. I really do.

Yeah, because there's zero precedence of old white dudes in sports not having faith/trust/objectivity towards young, flashy, black athletes.

[cale]

Yeah, because there's zero precedence of old white dudes in sports not having faith/trust/objectivity towards young, flashy, black athletes.

Wrong, look around the league and they are everywhere. Seven or eight of the top ten tomorrow will be young and flashy black guys. No one is complainging. They deserve it. But, it is reality and you fail to see it. Among other things you fail to see.

[WhoooTex]

I'm complainging

[borna_horn]

LBJ killed Kennedy.

[Derka Derka]

i'm complainging

I GOT A SNAKE MAING.


theyre all gonna laugh at you!!!!!!!!!!

[FCHorn]

Then why did all the QBs in the top 10 get A's except VY? EVERY SINGLE $#@!ING ONE OF THEM

You are using lazy thinking. Winning does not paint the entire picture, but it is part of it, a big one in fact. To say that a guy with VY's wins gets a C would be one thing. But to give him an F is ludicrous.

This...it's disgusting and dishonest really...

[FCHorn]

Let me put it this way....if any other human on this earth did the following:

Runner up State Champ in high school(5A)

Won an MNC and college awards(2 stupendous Rose Bowls)

Went 31-19 as a Pro qb...

2 pro bowls

NFL offensive rookie of the year


That person and career would be considered by all an unmitigated success story and career...except for VY...


F those $#@!ing Haters...

(coming from a pac12 homer....$#@!ing respect)

Can't stand those $#@!ing idiots dictating the story...

[TornACL]

That person and career would be considered by all an unmitigated success story and career...except for VY...

Look man VY's college success is probably the reason why he's being so harshly judged today. Ryan, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Rivers...none of those guys did $#@! in college compared to what Vince accomplished. Sure they may have run up some stats. But none of those guys played in a BCS bowl much less roll out historical performances in two of them.

Part of the reason for the "F" is that people assumed a guy that was transcendent in college would be the same in the NFL. He had higher standards coming in than anyone else. Although I'd argue that if you're going to give Vince an F you have to give Leinart an F-. Not only did Leinart run $#@! in college but he was also universally considered a more NFL-ready prospect than Vince coming into the league.

Regardless, that whole college to pro thinking is a giant fallacy. If we went by that logic, Tommie Frazier should have $#@!ing dominated the NFL.

[FCHorn]

Look man VY's college success is probably the reason why he's being so harshly judged today. Ryan, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Rivers...none of those guys did $#@! in college compared to what Vince accomplished. Sure they may have run up some stats. But none of those guys played in a BCS bowl much less roll out historical performances in two of them.

Part of the reason for the "F" is that people assumed a guy that was transcendent in college would be the same in the NFL. He had higher standards coming in than anyone else. Although I'd argue that if you're going to give Vince an F you have to give Leinart an F-. Not only did Leinart run $#@! in college but he was also universally considered a more NFL-ready prospect than Vince coming into the league.

Regardless, that whole college to pro thinking is a giant fallacy. If we went by that logic, Tommie Frazier should have $#@!ing dominated the NFL.

VY was a winner in HS and college and the pro's but somehow there is a different rubric for him...even with his W-L and pro bowls...

[slorch]

Just for clarity's sake, Pro Bowl =/= All Pro.

Some people are throwing that around with a bit too much value, especially when VY wasn't necessarily the first or 2nd pick for the Pro Bowl.

My opinion of the guy has changed, in that even in a freaking Eagles' uniform, I wanted him to do well. I want the Fisher excuse to be exorcised. People bring up the success he had at UT, well 1) he had about 20, or so, other fellow future NFLers on his roster with him. That might have helped ever so slightly... and 2) college defenses ain't the NFL.

The other piece of this is how much football depends on the whole team. If Vince wins, it will be all because of Vince in the eyes of many on here. When he stumbles, it's because of Jeff Fisher. I don't subscribe to that at all. What I do see is VY playing in offenses that had $#@! for receivers. Yeah, throw up DeSean Jackson and his Silverstone hands... I want to see what VY can do in a real offense, if for no other reason than to say he had a chance. I know this- I wouldn't bet against the guy.

[borna_horn]

In 2 games vs the eventual Super Bowl teams this season, Vince's average was 25-42 for 329 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT and a 75.4 QB rating. That's not great but not a total failure by any means. Certainly not grounds to say he is done in the league even as a backup. He is being crucified for one bad game vs Seattle, one in which anyone who watched knows he didn't get much help from his receivers.

[American Swindle]

Hate to bring in a CR slant or analogy, but The Sports Media is to VY as the Mainstream Media is to Ron Paul.

[VYFanboy]

If his receivers do the minimum expected of a replacement level NFL receiver those first two games- catch TDs that hit the numbers and/or hands, stay upright on fades, avoid impersonating Karch Kiraly for INTs, and avoid 50 yard celebration penalties- his rating is around 90.

I understand that drops happen to all QBs, but if you're trying to evaluated what VY can do going forward, last season's TD to INT ratio is highly skewed. The number of drops that turned into picks or lost points was impressive.

[Snacks]

Hate to bring in a CR slant or analogy, but The Sports Media is to VY as the Mainstream Media is to Ron Paul.

so, not very desirous to see him succeed? /NoCloakRoomATALL

[borna_horn]

Ron Paul sucks. He's never been to a pro bowl either.

[drew8117]

Ron Paul sucks. He's never been to a pro bowl either.

I'd venture to say he's never started a down either...

/career backup

[borna_horn]

If his receivers do the minimum expected of a replacement level NFL receiver those first two games- catch TDs that hit the numbers and/or hands, stay upright on fades, avoid impersonating Karch Kiraly for INTs, and avoid 50 yard celebration penalties- his rating is around 90.

I understand that drops happen to all QBs, but if you're trying to evaluated what VY can do going forward, last season's TD to INT ratio is highly skewed. The number of drops that turned into picks or lost points was impressive.

Take away the tipped ball INT vs the Giants, and add the 3 plays $#@!ed up by Desean Jackson - 50-yarder negated by celebration penalty, 4-yd TD dropped, and 50-yd TD bomb dropped - and VY would have a 95 rating for those two games vs the Giants and Pats, pretty close to what he had his last year with the Titans.

Yes, $#@!-ups by receivers are part of the game, but the point is he played much better than he is given credit for. People forget that Vick also had a lot of interceptions for the Eagles last year, particularly early in the season. It wasn't all on the QBs.

[bularry]

Winning percentage as a standard of who's good and who's bad is ridiculous and you know it. You really want to tell me that Matt Ryan is better than Eli as a QB just because he's lost fewer games? Matt Ryan has never won a Super Bowl much less appeared in one.

agree with the winning percentage comments. how about yards passing per game? TD's per start? TD/INT ratio? those matter more to me than some winning percentage assigned to one of 22 starters (admittedly the most important position, but still only 1 of 22).

[B00M]

Any chance I'll see Jeff Fisher get a little $#@!ing credit for VY's W-L record on Shaggy before the world ends? Sure, Fisher clearly wasn't a VY fan, but he also ran an NFL system perhaps best suited for VY to succeed in: simple passing offense, slow the clock down, run the ball, have a defense capable of overcoming the offense's turnovers, keep the game close so VY can come through with a big first down run or TD in the 4th like he's known to do. You can't just plug VY in a pass heavy attack...he turns the ball over enough as is. Fisher-ball benefitted VY whether you want to believe it or not.

If you look at VY's point totals in games he both started in finished, it reads off like a bunch of crappy Blackjack hands (no racist). Maybe if he weren't on the Titans, some of those W's would have been L's. You CANNOT win consistently in this league anymore if you can't routinely crack 24 points.

In one breath, you say that JF's intentionally low scoring offense is a big part of the reason VY won games. In the next you blame VY for JF's low scoring offense. Oh, you're an aggie.

[Newy25]

The NFL is a place where Pacman Jones can get three second chances. A place where Ryan Leaf gets a second contract worth a million/year. A place where Demetrius Underwood is signed immediately after he escaped from a mental hospital. Tank Johnson, Alonzo Spellman, Leonard Little....I can go on and on about teams overlooking off the field problems in order to get a talented player.

How on earth can some of you sit there and honestly say this is personal against Vince Young? If someone thought he could help their team history has proven someone would sign him.

[Snacks]

The NFL is a place where Pacman Jones can get three second chances. A place where Ryan Leaf gets a second contract worth a million/year. A place where Demetrius Underwood is signed immediately after he escaped from a mental hospital. Tank Johnson, Alonzo Spellman, Leonard Little....I can go on and on about teams overlooking off the field problems in order to get a talented player.

How on earth can some of you sit there and honestly say this is personal against Vince Young? If someone thought he could help their team history has proven someone would sign him.

I'm 50/50 that he'll get signed in the summer... after he re-takes the wunderlich

[RexWilson]

This thread is up to four pages and it has not been pointed out that Derka's video looked like it was filmed by Michael J. Fox. Was there an earthquake in P'ville while this was filmed?

Other than that Polian's list is all kinds of regarded.

[aggie08]

In one breath, you say that JF's intentionally low scoring offense is a big part of the reason VY won games. In the next you blame VY for JF's low scoring offense. Oh, you're an aggie.

It's not intentionally low scoring. It's safe and conservative, so the game doesn't get out of hand when the offense makes a couple mistakes. Steve McNair and a way-past-his-prime Kerry Collins (for one year) managed to put up some points in it...as did VY when he came in in '09. That's why I thought he had finally turned a corner.

[Derka Derka]

It's not intentionally low scoring. It's safe and conservative, so the game doesn't get out of hand when the offense makes a couple mistakes. Steve McNair and a way-past-his-prime Kerry Collins (for one year) managed to put up some points in it.

Jeff Fisher's offense wasnt safe and conservative, STOP TALKING OUT OF YOUR ASS. The more you talk about Tennessee the more you convince all of us who actually watched that you never saw a single game. Jeff Fisher's offense was archaic and outdated. Jeff Fisher, despite having a career win % well elow .500 when VY doesnt start for him, was for some reason the longest tenured coach in the NFL for a bit there. He's an old school guy, and he did things his old school way. Vince Young didnt fit into that old school idea, hence Jeff's irrational hatred for him. Look at the rest of that locker room, and how they drafted from 2006 forward. They didnt get any play makers to put around VY (dont even say Chris Johnson either, he was about as highly regarded as leVelle Hawkins, he simply worked out better), instead opting to stockpile a team full of TE's, D Linemen, and fullbacks. Seriously, theyd have 4 active TE's, 2 active FB's, and 8 or 9 active D Linemen on their 53 man roster! There's a reason that Jeff Fisher's record sucks without VY. Just like VY did at Texas with greg davis, he masked the clear and blatant coaching deficiencies with prodigious talent and performance. He made his $#@!ty offense and $#@!ty teammates better. At Texas, they realized it, got out of his way, and rode him to an MNC title. In Tennessee, the EgoStache would have none of it, and instead has tried, successfully thus far, to ruin VY's NFL career.


And you know what aggie08; I dont care if you think everything I just typed is the biggest load of horse $#@! youve ever seen. Thats fine. Youre entitled to your opinion. But please; stop talking out of your ass. it's such a bad look.

[Rimbo]

The NFL is a place where Pacman Jones can get three second chances. A place where Ryan Leaf gets a second contract worth a million/year. A place where Demetrius Underwood is signed immediately after he escaped from a mental hospital. Tank Johnson, Alonzo Spellman, Leonard Little....I can go on and on about teams overlooking off the field problems in order to get a talented player.

How on earth can some of you sit there and honestly say this is personal against Vince Young? If someone thought he could help their team history has proven someone would sign him.

The problem with the truth is that if you say something enough times, people will believe it regardless of the evidence against it. In fact, if you deny something enough times, it creates the same positive association; e.g., if I say "Craig James did not kill five hookers while at SMU," the way the brain works, you will form a positive association between "Craig James," "Kill" and "Five hookers" that wasn't there before -- you're more likely to come away remembering that he DID than he DIDN'T, even though I flat-out said that he didn't.

This is also why people believe stupid things about vaccines.

Fisher knows this. He's $#@!ing brilliant at it, in fact. He knows exactly how to spread a lie about someone by denying a question that no one ever bothered to ask. We all saw him do it. And if we deny what he said, that just serves to spread the lie further.

So the trick is to create a new positive association for Vince. A new story. It doesn't even have to be true; either way, if we can get a bunch of people saying it isn't true, that'll only help spread it.

[aggie08]

And you know what aggie08; I dont care if you think everything I just typed is the biggest load of horse $#@! youve ever seen. Thats fine. Youre entitled to your opinion.

Unless it's something you don't personally agree with. Then it's "$#@! you you $#@!ity $#@! $#@!. sheep $#@! $#@!er $#@!ing $#@!. $#@!ing deserve to get your ass kicked $#@!ing $#@!er mc$#@!. $#@!." My opinions on VY certainly aren't any more asinine than some of yours on Rick Barnes, yet here we are.

Good talk.

[Snacks]

So the trick is to create a new positive association for Vince. A new story. It doesn't even have to be true; either way, if we can get a bunch of people saying it isn't true, that'll only help spread it.

I don't agree with this. All anyone has to do in the NFL is win, and the positive association is there. VY had a positive association on the field, and let himself get himself blown up off the field. He just has to get back on the field, win, and stay out of the news for anything other than winning.

[Silky Johnson]

Oh I'm definitely not agruing any of that. Clearly, they clashed at every level personality wise. But, on the field, at least SOME of VY's W-L record has to be attributed to having a conservative ass, defensive minded coach (even one he hates) that kept the score close and only needed one or two key QB plays (like a VY 1st down run) to swing the game.

Throw out all the stats and accepted beliefs.

How does a team go 0-6 with one QB then immediately go 8-2 without changing a single thing, other than the QB?

Can we at least try to understand how monumental that occurrence was?

In the history of sports, how many times has that ever happened?

[mstrat]

The problem with the truth is that if you say something enough times, people will believe it regardless of the evidence against it. In fact, if you deny something enough times, it creates the same positive association; e.g., if I say "Craig James did not kill five hookers while at SMU," the way the brain works, you will form a positive association between "Craig James," "Kill" and "Five hookers" that wasn't there before -- you're more likely to come away remembering that he DID than he DIDN'T, even though I flat-out said that he didn't.

You probably also think the Holocaust never happened too. Craig James allegedly killed 5 hookers. Don't let anyone tell you different.

[aggie08]

Throw out all the stats and accepted beliefs.

How does a team go 0-6 with one QB then immediately go 8-2 without changing a single thing, other than the QB?

Can we at least try to understand how monumental that occurrence was?

In the history of sports, how many times has that ever happened?

I've been giving him nothing but credit for that. First time I really enjoyed watching him since his rookie year. He definitely seemed to be on the right path. It's too bad the soap opera that was 2010 had to happen (largely Fish's fault, but certainly VY carries some blame), or there's no telling where he'd be. Look, just because I'm an Aggie, doesn't mean I have anything against the guy. I always root for greatness. I $#@!ing rooted for him in college every game that took place on a Saturday. But other than about a handful of games, I just haven't been all that impressed with his pro career. I mean he was supposed to have Cam Newton's season years ago! I'd love to be proven wrong, but how 2010 ended and his stint in Philly doesn't leave me holding my breath.

[Pharmer]

I will still never forgive Vince for making a fool out of himself for "disappearing" after that game opening week game a couple of years ago and letting his mom speak for him. That's something you can't blame Jeff Fisher for causing.

[Rimbo]

You probably also think the Holocaust never happened too. Craig James allegedly killed 5 hookers. Don't let anyone tell you different.

I was only throwing that out as an example!

[twizzler]

2006 rose bowl on the lhn right now.
Thats all the Vince I need to know.

$#@! the nfl.

[borna_horn]

I will still never forgive Vince for making a fool out of himself for "disappearing" after that game opening week game a couple of years ago and letting his mom speak for him. That's something you can't blame Jeff Fisher for causing.

Except for the fact that Fisher was the whole source of the story. What a dumb$#@! you are.

[Rimbo]

Except for the fact that Fisher was the whole source of the story. What a dumb$#@! you are.

eeeeeeeeeexactly my point -- fisher was an absolute master at this $#@!

Frankly, we could do the same thing in reverse, but pro-Vince... but what?

[VY_myHero]

I still can't forgive the Texans for passing on VY. Like, if Mario Williams was in the draft today, would he be taken over RGIII? No. Why was he taken over VY? BY HIS HOMETOWN $#@!ING TEAM. $#@! you Texans. $#@! you.

[Newy25]

Except for the fact that Fisher was the whole source of the story. What a dumb$#@! you are.

Of course he was the source. He was, you know, the coach and his QB had just walked away from the team.

Even if you blame Fisher for all that went wrong with Vince, what happened in Philly? Was that Fisher's fault too? Why will no NFL team look at him for even a backup role right now? Is that Fisher's fault too?

[VYFanboy]

What happened in Philly?