1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or underemployed

[Jiggy-Z]

Jiggy-Z's oldest son just graduated UT-Austin in Dec. debt free (thanks to Daddy and ex Mrs Jiggy-Z). He majored in music performance, jazz trumpet.

I told him when he decided that was what he wanted to do, that it was going to be a grind, but that this would be his one and only opportunity to try his hand music as a career. He went for it and...

is now in New Orleans living on the cheap, scrapping together gigs, and barley making it. He gets depressed, thinks he is not good enough sometimes, etc. He refuses to get a backup job, following the advice of Wynton Marcelis' dad gave him, which was, "if you you are dedicated to plan A, you don't need a plan B".

[Wulaw Horn]

So, a bunch of college educated $#@!s are telling a bunch of other dumbfucks, "don't go to college because you can't hack it?" Is that right?

Has nothing to do, for me, with whether you can hack it. Has to do with whether you are going to college with an intentional purpose in mind, or as a way to kill 4 or 5 years while racking up big debt, without gaining a marketable skill, b/c you've been told that college is an end in and of itself as opposed to a means to the life you want.

I only give the advice I do to kids who ask me- it's not like I go around and tell everyone under the age of 18. I figure if they are asking they have doubts and don't really know what they want to do, so they should enter the real world until they figure that out, support themselves, and then use college as a tool to better their life as opposed to an anchor around their neck.

[Wulaw Horn]

Well, if your assertion is that I won't be able to find gainful employment unless I am willing to take part-time work during the school year, I think your assertion is a false one.

Let's just say I'm not too worried about that happening given the position I am in.

You are the one who responded to my post saying that you can work and still succeed in school if you use rudimentary time management skills with, sounds like a beat down, I will pass. Seriously, I cannot even fathom that someone who looks at 60 or 70 hours of his week being made up of $#@! he doesn't want to do being successful in the real world. I'm not saying you won't succeed, I'm saying unless you luck into something or are in the lucky sperm club success will depend upon things like being able to manage your time and being willing to work.

[Wulaw Horn]

Jiggy-Z's oldest son just graduated UT-Austin in Dec. debt free (thanks to Daddy and ex Mrs Jiggy-Z). He majored in music performance, jazz trumpet.

I told him when he decided that was what he wanted to do, that it was going to be a grind, but that this would be his one and only opportunity to try his hand music as a career. He went for it and...

is now in New Orleans living on the cheap, scrapping together gigs, and barley making it. He gets depressed, thinks he is not good enough sometimes, etc. He refuses to get a backup job, following the advice of Wynton Marcelis' dad gave him, which was, "if you you are dedicated to plan A, you don't need a plan B".

Good for him. I'm a huge advocate of chasing your dreams when you are yound and selling out to do something you want. He gets to do that b/c he's not strangled by debt right now, so he can afford to chase his dream. That's sort of the point of why I advocate against college for kids who are on the fence at 18, so they will still have the option to chase a dream rather than servicing the debt on an education they didn't need at that tiem.

I think it's good advice, when your young, before you have responsibilities and commitments to throw yourself into your passion. Adulthood and responsibilities mean you have to compromise your passion for your obligations. Rooting for him.

[Rocko20]

Fun times...

Having a hard major is getting more expensive.

A growing number of public universities are charging higher tuition for math, science and business programs, which they argue cost more to teach — and can earn grads higher-paying jobs.

More than 140 public universities now use "differential tuition" plans, up 19% since 2006, according to research from Cornell's Higher Education Research Institute. That number is increasing as states cut higher-education spending and schools try to pay for expensive technical programs.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...jor/54513940/1

[tx 3 putt]

Fun times...


http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...jor/54513940/1

nice

my engineering degree (in hind sight) would be well worth an extra 20%. best decision i ever made was majoring in engineering. small or big school, there will always be jobs out there

[al pastor]

I like the lecture on not being lazy while in school while citing a piddly 35-45 hours of class+study a week as the way to dean's list. Maybe for History.

[Heel06]

You don't want to work, is that what you're telling me? Or you don't have to work? You are NOT hired. Maybe one of your pledge bros can find you a non-contributing job after you graduate.

I did not "work" during the school year. However, I was a double major in two disciplines with little overlap. Both involved experimental labs or time/credit equivalent of labs every week. I came in with 30 hours of AP credit, but I always took over 15 hours - I think my worst was 21 hours - but those were not like semesters where I picked up an extra 3.0 hour lecture and a 1.0 hour recitation that met once a week. Those 1.0 labs each took up hours more work outside of the lab instruction time, which was also well longer than 1.0 hours. When I graduated, I had around 165 credit hours. Somehow I managed to pull off Dean's List a couple of times.

Yes I was in a fraternity. While I was in that fraternity, I was the alumni chair during a ~$1MM fundraising campaign that was on a strict deadline or we would have lost our house - we made it. I managed the frat house kitchen and all the fun that goes along with that including planning the food for the tailgates. I was the rep to the IFC and served on the Greek Judicial Board. I traveled to two national conferences as a delegate and went to a regional one where I proudly made fun of the nerd chapters at other schools. I was on a committee for the largest 100% student founded, planned, and operated fundraiser, which raises hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for the children's hospital. I had a girlfriend and we had sexual intercourse a lot! I was in four music ensembles, and I was the guy they called to play "Taps" when necessary for Veteran's Day. After I played Taps my senior year, the Chancellor personally told me, "Hey bro, I like your $#@!" and we exchanged daps. I went to every home football game and never left early, including a home loss to I-AA Furman 28-3, any basketball game I could, tons of baseball games, and Olympic sporting events to watch a couple bros bro out in lax and soccer. I played intramurals here and there and set the all-time record for HRs, SOs, and HBP in a single Whiffle Ball season. I even learned the names of everyone on the floor of my dorm freshman and sophomore years and still managed to never talk to some of them. I went to bars. My facebook friend who was in my first class freshman year was SBP, so I've got legit political connections, too. I was the "beverage director" for our frat parties. I did a whole lot of other inconsequential $#@! but made sure I never sacrificed any masturbation time. I didn't sleep much. If that meant going to class still drunk, so be it. Now that's responsibility.

During the summers, I got to take a nice rest. I was in class for a few summer sessions and/or worked in town 40-60 hours a week.. I took a few service trips out of state to do habitat for humanity type work.

My point in "bragging" about all the things I did is to show that just because I wasn't employed or in an internship program, it hardly means I was sitting on my ass doing only worthless stuff, just some worthless stuff. Still, I can throw myself into as many deep ends as there are hours in a day and find a way to swim in all of them. I almost drowned and needed a life preserver a couple of times, but I'm pretty proud I was able to survive a rounded college experience like that. Did I do too much? Yeah, I know I did. I made a mistake double majoring and not checking out some other majors and seeking advice from some pretty amazing resources. My overall GPA suffered, but my major GPA was pretty damn skippy. I think that's all incredibly important. Why? Because I want you to hire me almost as much as you want to hire me. And also because of those experiences, I have a very solid understanding of my limits and know when I can handle something or when I just need to cut the $#@! and get a hand so it's done correctly.

It sounds like people expect a junior associate in place of a college student these days. I can't have those same college experiences after graduation, but an internship? Give me a training manual and six weeks, and I promise that while I won't be your A+ student like the intern-hire, I'll be worth your time. Plus I'm a whole lot $#@!ing cooler than that nerd. Re-read all the stuff I did, I'm a Renaissance man like da Vinci DeVito, only not famous and much, much less gifted than he was in many less disciplines. But I tell horrible dirty jokes and great stories that are all 100% true Scout's Honor (I'm an Eagle Scout, which means I'm incapable of being anything but honorable). Before you know it, I'll be the king of the water cooler and have nicknames for everyone that actually stick and are only mildly demeaning. I also don't make obnoxious "aahhhhhhs" after I sip on a beverage, I don't bring stinky food to heat up in the microwave, I am OCD about hygiene, I don't wear loud or theme ties, I'll make coffee the first day, I keep a Costco sized box of Gas-X at my desk, and I never refer to a female co-worker as "sugar tits"..... to her face.

When do I start? How big is my office? When you say "low six figures," how low is that exactly? Is my company car an import? And I assume I'll have final say in the hiring of my personal assistant. Just PM Derka my offer, he's been apprised of the situation.

[Wulaw Horn]

I like the lecture on not being lazy while in school while citing a piddly 35-45 hours of class+study a week as the way to dean's list. Maybe for History.

My roomates were all engineers (b/c that was their aptitude or gift). The one that graduated at 3.7 put in 30 or 40 a week studying, the two at 3.0 ish put in 20 or 30 a week studying.

If you think that there isn't outside the class work in liberal arts then you are crazy. Reading Socrates and Aristotle, Hume or Descartes isn't exactly easy or fun. Fact is that if you put in a couple hours out of class for every in class hour you will be fine.

I took engineering calc and science for science majors as well. When I put in 6 or 8 hours a week (3 hour classes) I generally succeeded. It's not like my engineering roommaters were knocking down straight A's in their history, philosophy, government classes. My GPA in their discipline was higher than their's in mine, even though I was in a "dope smoking" major as they called it (actually double major- history and government).

Having to take 16 hours of foreign language is really easy, you can do that without studying (not).

At a certain level it doesn't matter what your major is, if you are going to succeed you have to put in the work outside the classroom, and if you want to get a good job you have to do that plus get yourself some experience.

[Wulaw Horn]

I did not "work" during the school year. However, I was a double major in two disciplines with little overlap. Both involved experimental labs or time/credit equivalent of labs every week. I came in with 30 hours of AP credit, but I always took over 15 hours - I think my worst was 21 hours - but those were not like semesters where I picked up an extra 3.0 hour lecture and a 1.0 hour recitation that met once a week. Those 1.0 labs each took up hours more work outside of the lab instruction time, which was also well longer than 1.0 hours. When I graduated, I had around 165 credit hours. Somehow I managed to pull off Dean's List a couple of times.

Yes I was in a fraternity. While I was in that fraternity, I was the alumni chair during a ~$1MM fundraising campaign that was on a strict deadline or we would have lost our house - we made it. I managed the frat house kitchen and all the fun that goes along with that including planning the food for the tailgates. I was the rep to the IFC and served on the Greek Judicial Board. I traveled to two national conferences as a delegate and went to a regional one where I proudly made fun of the nerd chapters at other schools. I was on a committee for the largest 100% student founded, planned, and operated fundraiser, which raises hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for the children's hospital. I had a girlfriend and we had sexual intercourse a lot! I was in four music ensembles, and I was the guy they called to play "Taps" when necessary for Veteran's Day. After I played Taps my senior year, the Chancellor personally told me, "Hey bro, I like your $#@!" and we exchanged daps. I went to every home football game and never left early, including a home loss to I-AA Furman 28-3, any basketball game I could, tons of baseball games, and Olympic sporting events to watch a couple bros bro out in lax and soccer. I played intramurals here and there and set the all-time record for HRs, SOs, and HBP in a single Whiffle Ball season. I even learned the names of everyone on the floor of my dorm freshman and sophomore years and still managed to never talk to some of them. I went to bars. My facebook friend who was in my first class freshman year was SBP, so I've got legit political connections, too. I was the "beverage director" for our frat parties. I did a whole lot of other inconsequential $#@! but made sure I never sacrificed any masturbation time. I didn't sleep much. If that meant going to class still drunk, so be it. Now that's responsibility.

During the summers, I got to take a nice rest. I was in class for a few summer sessions and/or worked in town 40-60 hours a week.. I took a few service trips out of state to do habitat for humanity type work.

My point in "bragging" about all the things I did is to show that just because I wasn't employed or in an internship program, it hardly means I was sitting on my ass doing only worthless stuff, just some worthless stuff. Still, I can throw myself into as many deep ends as there are hours in a day and find a way to swim in all of them. I almost drowned and needed a life preserver a couple of times, but I'm pretty proud I was able to survive a rounded college experience like that. Did I do too much? Yeah, I know I did. I made a mistake double majoring and not checking out some other majors and seeking advice from some pretty amazing resources. My overall GPA suffered, but my major GPA was pretty damn skippy. I think that's all incredibly important. Why? Because I want you to hire me almost as much as you want to hire me. And also because of those experiences, I have a very solid understanding of my limits and know when I can handle something or when I just need to cut the $#@! and get a hand so it's done correctly.

It sounds like people expect a junior associate in place of a college student these days. I can't have those same college experiences after graduation, but an internship? Give me a training manual and six weeks, and I promise that while I won't be your A+ student like the intern-hire, I'll be worth your time. Plus I'm a whole lot $#@!ing cooler than that nerd. Re-read all the stuff I did, I'm a Renaissance man like da Vinci DeVito, only not famous and much, much less gifted than he was in many less disciplines. But I tell horrible dirty jokes and great stories that are all 100% true Scout's Honor (I'm an Eagle Scout, which means I'm incapable of being anything but honorable). Before you know it, I'll be the king of the water cooler and have nicknames for everyone that actually stick and are only mildly demeaning. I also don't make obnoxious "aahhhhhhs" after I sip on a beverage, I don't bring stinky food to heat up in the microwave, I am OCD about hygiene, I don't wear loud or theme ties, I'll make coffee the first day, I keep a Costco sized box of Gas-X at my desk, and I never refer to a female co-worker as "sugar tits"..... to her face.

When do I start? How big is my office? When you say "low six figures," how low is that exactly? Is my company car an import? And I assume I'll have final say in the hiring of my personal assistant. Just PM Derka my offer, he's been apprised of the situation.

That all sounds fantasrtic. But just so you know- Judge was responding to a guy that said basic time management sounded like a beat down and he'd prefer to float through life as opposed to executing a plan. That doesn't sound like what you are describing.

[Heel06]

That all sounds fantasrtic. But just so you know- Judge was responding to a guy that said basic time management sounded like a beat down and he'd prefer to float through life as opposed to executing a plan. That doesn't sound like what you are describing.

I know, I was just taking the piss at the notion liberal arts majors without internships are by default shiftless..... and using it as an inconspicuous/conspicuous method for fishing for a job. /realtalk

PS, That's not my whole resume! I've done other $#@!, too! I'll open the bidding at $60,000/yr + expense account and company car.

[judge roybeanbag]

I did not "work" during the school year. However, I was a double major in two disciplines with little overlap. Both involved experimental labs or time/credit equivalent of labs every week. I came in with 30 hours of AP credit, but I always took over 15 hours - I think my worst was 21 hours - but those were not like semesters where I picked up an extra 3.0 hour lecture and a 1.0 hour recitation that met once a week. Those 1.0 labs each took up hours more work outside of the lab instruction time, which was also well longer than 1.0 hours. When I graduated, I had around 165 credit hours. Somehow I managed to pull off Dean's List a couple of times.

Yes I was in a fraternity. While I was in that fraternity, I was the alumni chair during a ~$1MM fundraising campaign that was on a strict deadline or we would have lost our house - we made it. I managed the frat house kitchen and all the fun that goes along with that including planning the food for the tailgates. I was the rep to the IFC and served on the Greek Judicial Board. I traveled to two national conferences as a delegate and went to a regional one where I proudly made fun of the nerd chapters at other schools. I was on a committee for the largest 100% student founded, planned, and operated fundraiser, which raises hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for the children's hospital. I had a girlfriend and we had sexual intercourse a lot! I was in four music ensembles, and I was the guy they called to play "Taps" when necessary for Veteran's Day. After I played Taps my senior year, the Chancellor personally told me, "Hey bro, I like your $#@!" and we exchanged daps. I went to every home football game and never left early, including a home loss to I-AA Furman 28-3, any basketball game I could, tons of baseball games, and Olympic sporting events to watch a couple bros bro out in lax and soccer. I played intramurals here and there and set the all-time record for HRs, SOs, and HBP in a single Whiffle Ball season. I even learned the names of everyone on the floor of my dorm freshman and sophomore years and still managed to never talk to some of them. I went to bars. My facebook friend who was in my first class freshman year was SBP, so I've got legit political connections, too. I was the "beverage director" for our frat parties. I did a whole lot of other inconsequential $#@! but made sure I never sacrificed any masturbation time. I didn't sleep much. If that meant going to class still drunk, so be it. Now that's responsibility.

During the summers, I got to take a nice rest. I was in class for a few summer sessions and/or worked in town 40-60 hours a week.. I took a few service trips out of state to do habitat for humanity type work.

My point in "bragging" about all the things I did is to show that just because I wasn't employed or in an internship program, it hardly means I was sitting on my ass doing only worthless stuff, just some worthless stuff. Still, I can throw myself into as many deep ends as there are hours in a day and find a way to swim in all of them. I almost drowned and needed a life preserver a couple of times, but I'm pretty proud I was able to survive a rounded college experience like that. Did I do too much? Yeah, I know I did. I made a mistake double majoring and not checking out some other majors and seeking advice from some pretty amazing resources. My overall GPA suffered, but my major GPA was pretty damn skippy. I think that's all incredibly important. Why? Because I want you to hire me almost as much as you want to hire me. And also because of those experiences, I have a very solid understanding of my limits and know when I can handle something or when I just need to cut the $#@! and get a hand so it's done correctly.

It sounds like people expect a junior associate in place of a college student these days. I can't have those same college experiences after graduation, but an internship? Give me a training manual and six weeks, and I promise that while I won't be your A+ student like the intern-hire, I'll be worth your time. Plus I'm a whole lot $#@!ing cooler than that nerd. Re-read all the stuff I did, I'm a Renaissance man like da Vinci DeVito, only not famous and much, much less gifted than he was in many less disciplines. But I tell horrible dirty jokes and great stories that are all 100% true Scout's Honor (I'm an Eagle Scout, which means I'm incapable of being anything but honorable). Before you know it, I'll be the king of the water cooler and have nicknames for everyone that actually stick and are only mildly demeaning. I also don't make obnoxious "aahhhhhhs" after I sip on a beverage, I don't bring stinky food to heat up in the microwave, I am OCD about hygiene, I don't wear loud or theme ties, I'll make coffee the first day, I keep a Costco sized box of Gas-X at my desk, and I never refer to a female co-worker as "sugar tits"..... to her face.

When do I start? How big is my office? When you say "low six figures," how low is that exactly? Is my company car an import? And I assume I'll have final say in the hiring of my personal assistant. Just PM Derka my offer, he's been apprised of the situation.

Dude, I'm not saying you and your college experience are worthless. You are what you make out of yourself, after all. What I am saying is that when it comes to hiring, outside of maybe Goldman Sachs or something, in the real world none of that means $#@! when you are up against people with the same degree who have experience in the field. I'm not talking about myself - I lucked into this job by skills and being pushed like a mofo by my non-working wife.

Bottom line is, I have had people working for me with MBAs and far more college education than I have, but they were dumb as a $#@!ing post. Don't ever ask me the same question twice. Don't ever ask me a question you could have figured out on your own, for that matter. Google it.

Blasting through school is fine and service is great. But don't expect it to impress someone you want to work for, that's all I'm saying. They want someone who knows what they're doing and can do it with little supervision.

[Heel06]

Dude, I'm not saying you and your college experience are worthless. You are what you make out of yourself, after all. What I am saying is that when it comes to hiring, outside of maybe Goldman Sachs or something, in the real world none of that means $#@! when you are up against people with the same degree who have experience in the field. I'm not talking about myself - I lucked into this job by skills and being pushed like a mofo by my non-working wife.

Bottom line is, I have had people working for me with MBAs and far more college education than I have, but they were dumb as a $#@!ing post. Don't ever ask me the same question twice. Don't ever ask me a question you could have figured out on your own, for that matter. Google it.

Blasting through school is fine and service is great. But don't expect it to impress someone you want to work for, that's all I'm saying. They want someone who knows what they're doing and can do it with little supervision.

Playing hardball on the job offer, eh? Fine, I'll give up the expense account demand.

In all honesty, I know what you mean. That's how my friend parlayed a poli sci major into a job at JP Morgan and after a couple years of indentured servitude was scooped up by a small firm doing some niche finance/banking service that is above my paygrade (in more ways than one). He just makes obscene amounts of money for someone who is not quite 30.

I'm going into healthcare, and just spent several years and several thousand hours in a startup public health clinic as an unpaid volunteer. I recognize the need for field-relevant experience - especially from a graduate school admissions perspective - and think I have paid those dues at this point and then some... I freaking hope at least. I just want to go to a big University with a bit of a name brand - not $#@!house Falls State U or aggy.

[shigginz]

You don't want to work, is that what you're telling me? Or you don't have to work? You are NOT hired. Maybe one of your pledge bros can find you a non-contributing job after you graduate.

Chill out. I just don't want to work a part time job while I'm in classes. I work over the summer. I'm an engineering major. I'm not concerned about getting a job. Just don't feel like torturing myself. But please, continue to evaluate my ability to work based on two sentences on a forum.

[Wulaw Horn]

Chill out. I just don't want to work a part time job while I'm in classes. I work over the summer. I'm an engineering major. I'm not concerned about getting job. Just don't feel like torturing myself. But please, continue to evaluate my ability to work based on two sentences on a forum.

I had 3 engineering roommates. The one with the best job, by far, out of school was the guy who worked part time during the school year at a low paying job in his field. He parlayed that into good summer work with valuable experience and got offered there.

The guy that made the best grades but didn't work got all sorts of interviews in on-campus interview time, but didn't get the internships for summer he wanted- no experience.

The guy with the worst grades didn't get any interviews or offers his first 3 years (he was a student for 5). Once he decided to work at the part time job in field he got a decent internship over the summer between his 4th and 5th year, and then got hired there out of school. But he only got that gig based upon having some work experience, and his gig was better than the guy who had mostly straight A's.

Just by virtue of being an engineering major you've got a better shot than most of the people we are talking about here, but lack of experience still is and probably always will be a handicap. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones who don't need to leverage a job. Some don't, but that's the exception and not the rule.

And anyone who has problems with time management or scheduling, or is unwilling to shoulde work outside of 40 hours a week is not succeeding in this climate, absent some good fortune or the like.

[Chewbacca]

Ramen noodles don't fuel a healthy body.

Neither do multi-vitamins.

[Crab Person]

When I came out of UT in the early 80s with a Petroleum Engineering degree I was making $35k (about $79k today) living in the Village off of Central Expressway in Dallas and living large. Then over the course of 11 years I saw oil go from $30/bbl to $15 and take a generation of PE jobs with it. I ended up in Medical Sales and loving it for the last 20 years. Sometimes you just have to roll with the flow and maybe COMPROMISE on what you want to do so you can survive.

Hell I bet PEs now are probably almost getting $100k almost right out of school. There is so much money to be made at $100+/bbl that I could have drilled into someone's backyard in Plano and make it profitable.[/QUOTE]

Your number is not too far off, I graduated 1.5 years ago w/ a PE degree and a minor in ME and Geology, I'm doing quite well but I have some friends that made 6 figures first year out, oil buisness is good for now, hoping to save up for when it turns to $#@! again

[thewacokid]

Dude, I'm not saying you and your college experience are worthless. You are what you make out of yourself, after all. What I am saying is that when it comes to hiring, outside of maybe Goldman Sachs or something, in the real world none of that means $#@! when you are up against people with the same degree who have experience in the field. I'm not talking about myself - I lucked into this job by skills and being pushed like a mofo by my non-working wife.

Bottom line is, I have had people working for me with MBAs and far more college education than I have, but they were dumb as a $#@!ing post. Don't ever ask me the same question twice. Don't ever ask me a question you could have figured out on your own, for that matter. Google it.

Blasting through school is fine and service is great. But don't expect it to impress someone you want to work for, that's all I'm saying. They want someone who knows what they're doing and can do it with little supervision.

I don't know what line of work you're in, but that sounds like a $#@!ty way to treat employees. I imagine that most entry-level folks assume that you have a certain way you want things done or a specialized knowledge, and therefore would rather ask you than Google. I would think that someone who values real-world experience as much as yourself would like someone who is trying to learn in a real-world environment.

[cam4mav]

I'm assuming judge was referring to being asked the same thing multiple times and also being asked questions that a simple Google search would answer in 60 seconds versus being asked a question about the specifics of how he wants things done.

[al pastor]

If you think that there isn't outside the class work in liberal arts then you are crazy. Reading Socrates and Aristotle, Hume or Descartes isn't exactly easy or fun. Fact is that if you put in a couple hours out of class for every in class hour you will be fine.

I took engineering calc and science for science majors as well. When I put in 6 or 8 hours a week (3 hour classes) I generally succeeded. It's not like my engineering roommaters were knocking down straight A's in their history, philosophy, government classes. My GPA in their discipline was higher than their's in mine, even though I was in a "dope smoking" major as they called it (actually double major- history and government).

Having to take 16 hours of foreign language is really easy, you can do that without studying (not).

At a certain level it doesn't matter what your major is, if you are going to succeed you have to put in the work outside the classroom, and if you want to get a good job you have to do that plus get yourself some experience.

where did I say lib arts is 0 work? your assertion was there's unquestionably plenty of time to make deans list w/ an engineering schedule and a day job, which is laughable. everyone I knew w/ a 3.5+, aside from a couple of very gifted friends, were putting in more than 30 hours w/ their 16+ hr schedules in the last few semesters. work experience is what the summer is for if you don't want to do a coop program. and A's in govt & hist is what AP tests are for. and had no shortage of friends w/ no semester-long jobs w/ phenomenal placements, signing bonuses, and a free summer before starting the real world so there goes that supposed natural law too

[Slikwille]

Chill out. I just don't want to work a part time job while I'm in classes. I work over the summer. I'm an engineering major. I'm not concerned about getting a job. Just don't feel like torturing myself. But please, continue to evaluate my ability to work based on two sentences on a forum.

Shigginz, just make sure that work over the summer is related to your field or, better yet, a co-op. I know what it is like torturing yourself (got my BSEE in '08 and had worked 18 hours a week at a camera store while doing it, substituting summer time work for internships) and my GPA definitely suffered due to it, so I completely agree with your mindset of not working during classes. When I applied to jobs in the power engineering field, the interviewers were more interested in my sales experience at the camera store than they were at my internships (though still a major help) since it showed them I could interact with people.

[Jugthug42]

Some of the worst advice I ever received was that I had no chance getting a technical internship as an underclassman. This was not only false, but prevented me from getting chances at more prestigious internships later.

I'm graduating with a BS in EE next month, and honestly I think anyone can do it. The key factor is that the far majority of folks aren't willing to put in the time and effort to get it done.

It is rough as hell but very rewarding. I have had a much different college experience than all of my friends in business or lib arts or communications...I don't regret it, although I wished things were different for a substantial amount of time.

I grew up very interested in arts and music and philosophy, and when I choose to study engineering my mom was really quite upset, as she wanted me to study liberal arts. But I knew that my personal skills would help distinguish me from the rest of the engineers I would be working with, and my assumption has proven true.

I would love the chance to go back to school to study classic civ, history, literature or music, but my primary goal for college was to create a foundation that would help me get into a lucrative field that I would appreciate and excel in. This seemed like a logical goal, and maybe it is my engineer training that has made me feel like it was the obvious choice, but I don't am always surprised that so few others think about college this way.

[Heel06]

I would love the chance to go back to school to study classic civ, history, literature or music, but my primary goal for college was to create a foundation that would help me get into a lucrative field that I would appreciate and excel in. This seemed like a logical goal, and maybe it is my engineer training that has made me feel like it was the obvious choice, but I don't am always surprised that so few others think about college this way.

LOL Engineers. God love 'em.

[judge roybeanbag]

it may seem harsh, but frankly if you can't figure some stuff out on your own, $#@! you. I'll give you an example. I had a senior exective come to me last week and ask what FAR 52.212-12 was. Look that $#@! up yourself or get fired because you're a dumbass. You sound like someone who wants to get ahead, I will tell you the way to do that is to LEARN. Outstreach your peers. Don't ask the same question twice. Learn the answer once and go with it.

I don't know what line of work you're in, but that sounds like a $#@!ty way to treat employees. I imagine that most entry-level folks assume that you have a certain way you want things done or a specialized knowledge, and therefore would rather ask you than Google. I would think that someone who values real-world experience as much as yourself would like someone who is trying to learn in a real-world environment.

[Basil Your Face]

I don't know what the $#@! FAR 52.5150 is. Go $#@! yourself with that defeatist attitude.

[judge roybeanbag]

I'm assuming judge was referring to being asked the same thing multiple times and also being asked questions that a simple Google search would answer in 60 seconds versus being asked a question about the specifics of how he wants things done.

I'm assuming you are correct. Don't ask me some $#@! you can figure out on your own, you are wasting my time.

[judge roybeanbag]

I'm assuming you are correct. Don't ask me some $#@! you can figure out on your own, you are wasting my time.

Jesus just basil your $#@!ing face.

[Wulaw Horn]

That's the stupidest $#@!ing "tradeoff" I've ever heard. Getting valuable experience doesn't mean your grades have to suffer. I made a 3.8 my pledge semester (busiest of my 6 semesters in college by far) and was top 10 percent of my law school class the year that I worked for legal aid. Busy people get $#@! done and succeed. It's the height of loserism to act like taking a $#@!ing job to get experience in the real world is likely to tank your $#@!ing grades. There is plenty of time to attend 15 hours of school, work 20 or 30 hours during the week, and do 20 or 30 hours worth of homework (which if your not a $#@!ing cretin should mean deans list).

There are 168 $#@!ing hours in a week. Get 9 hours of sleep and you still have 112 waking hours a week.

15 hours in school, 30 studying and 30 working still leave you 40 hours a week to jack off and do nothing.

Just listening to Dave Ramsey heading home last night and they were doing a special on high school grads and how to prepare them for college. The data shows that kids that work 10-19 hours a week, while they are in school, graduate with a higher GPA than kids who do not work. This was always my anecdotal experience, and why I posted this about grades vs work being a false trade off. Upshot of the study was kids that work manage their time better and learn responsibility. I know this was the case in my life.

[Wulaw Horn]

where did I say lib arts is 0 work? your assertion was there's unquestionably plenty of time to make deans list w/ an engineering schedule and a day job, which is laughable. everyone I knew w/ a 3.5+, aside from a couple of very gifted friends, were putting in more than 30 hours w/ their 16+ hr schedules in the last few semesters. work experience is what the summer is for if you don't want to do a coop program. and A's in govt & hist is what AP tests are for. and had no shortage of friends w/ no semester-long jobs w/ phenomenal placements, signing bonuses, and a free summer before starting the real world so there goes that supposed natural law too

Read my post just above this one on the schedule. The data supports what I said. Kids that work 10-19 hours during school graduate with a higher GPA than do kids that don't work. They are also more employable upon graduation. This is fact.

[Chewbacca]

it may seem harsh, but frankly if you can't figure some stuff out on your own, $#@! you. I'll give you an example. I had a senior exective come to me last week and ask what FAR 52.212-12 was. Look that $#@! up yourself or get fired because you're a dumbass.

This may seem harsh, but if you keep telling senior executives to $#@! off, your career may not end up as promising as you want it to be. Your call.

[Wulaw Horn]

This may seem harsh, but if you keep telling senior executives to $#@! off, your career may not end up as promising as you want it to be. Your call.

I get where Judge is coming from, but this made me laugh.

[Dolemite]

Jiggy-Z's oldest son just graduated UT-Austin in Dec. debt free (thanks to Daddy and ex Mrs Jiggy-Z). He majored in music performance, jazz trumpet.

I told him when he decided that was what he wanted to do, that it was going to be a grind, but that this would be his one and only opportunity to try his hand music as a career. He went for it and...

is now in New Orleans living on the cheap, scrapping together gigs, and barley making it. He gets depressed, thinks he is not good enough sometimes, etc. He refuses to get a backup job, following the advice of Wynton Marcelis' dad gave him, which was, "if you you are dedicated to plan A, you don't need a plan B".

Music majors make good computer programmers.

[Chewbacca]

I get where Judge is coming from, but this made me laugh.

I get where he's coming from as well, just pointing out that career advancement is not always just about what you know. It's also about who likes you and sometimes more importantly, who doesn't like you.

[Jiggy-Z]

Music majors make good computer programmers.

True from what I hear.

Not to that point yet but....

The problem with these grads, other than their debt, is that they are pussies... CSB alert.

You need very little to actually get by on. But that is not what those guys think.

When I got divorced, I was 30, and had my own business, my education was pad paid for (UT), it was 5 grand total. My business was in debt to everyone to the tune of about 80 grand.

I eventually paid off the 80 grand as business got better later on, but before that, I was able to make my child support payments(similar to student loan), buy a little place in the country, and still put away about 5 grand a year, all on $6.00/hr + a little overtime (my salary at the time).

It all just depends on how mean and lean you want to get. Frankly, money was tight, but I did not want for a thing. I did have family in town, and my truck was a business expenditure, as was my cell phone, fuel, and truck insurance, but still, the net hourly rate could not have been more than 10/hr. Those were some of the best times in my life..just part of growing up.

Compared to someone growing up in poverty or the great depression, my story would seem like a cake walk, and it was. Its simple, just buy food and do things that are good for you that don't cost money. Rant over.

BTW, I am proud of my son, I hope he makes it doing what he loves.

[xr4ticlone]

http://www.DesMoinesRegister.com/art...way-brilliance

Here...let me add a new dimension to this argument by posting a fabulous article by one of Iowa's brightest. I think this will change some opinions. Lol

[Dwight Schrute]

http://www.DesMoinesRegister.com/art...way-brilliance

Here...let me add a new dimension to this argument by posting a fabulous article by one of Iowa's brightest. I think this will change some opinions. Lol

That's why you can't let them out the kitchen.

[Shmittytheloverboy]

This "underemployed" thing is getting tired. An item is worth what someone else is willing to pay.

I disagree

[Continental Op]

it may seem harsh, but frankly if you can't figure some stuff out on your own, $#@! you. I'll give you an example. I had a senior exective come to me last week and ask what FAR 52.212-12 was. Look that $#@! up yourself or get fired because you're a dumbass. You sound like someone who wants to get ahead, I will tell you the way to do that is to LEARN. Outstreach your peers. Don't ask the same question twice. Learn the answer once and go with it.

Where are you on the org chart in relation to this senior executive? If you're not on the same level or above him, guess what: You are Google as far as he's concerned.

Also, F FAR.

[YChang]

Purely anecdotal, but maybe it's not all bad out there. My brother graduates in a few weeks and after 4 interviews recently it ends up the company he interned with that made him a full time offer. 60k starting for the little brat, not too bad in this economy just out of school for non cs/engineering major.

So I guess the moral of the story is that internships are really important (duh). Oh he majored in MIS.

[Michael Knight]