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Thread: January 7, 2010 BCS National Championship Game Starters

  1. #1
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    January 7, 2010 BCS National Championship Game Starters

    OFFENSE

    QB Colt McCoy - 2010 3rd Round
    RB Tre Newton - Undrafted
    WR Dan Buckner - Undrafted
    WR James Kirkendoll - Undrafted
    WR Jordan Shipley - 2010 3rd Round
    WR Malcolm Williams - Undrafted
    OL Adam Ulatoski - Undrafted
    OL Charlie Tanner - Undrafted
    OL Chris Hall - Undrafted
    OL Michael Huey - Undrafted
    OL Kyle Hix - Undrafted

    DEFENSE

    DL Sergio Kindle - 2010 2nd Round
    DL Kheeston Randall - 2012 7th Round
    DL Lamarr Houston - 2010 2nd Round
    DL Sam Acho - 2011 4th Round
    LB Keenan Robinson - 2012 4th Round
    LB Roddrick Muckelroy - 2010 4th Round
    CB Aaron Williams - 2011 2nd Round
    CB Chykie Brown - 2011 5th Round
    S Earl Thomas - 2010 1st Round
    S Blake Gideon - Undrafted
    DB Curtis Brown - 2011 3rd Round
    Last edited by Huckleberry; 04-30-2012 at 08:32 AM.

  2. #2
    I don't recall the Longhorns playing in a game on January 7, 2010.

  3. #3
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    So, you're saying Greg Davis was a genius who did more with less? Gotcha.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by FondrenRoad View Post
    I don't recall the Longhorns playing in a game on January 7, 2010.
    me either.

  5. #5
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    The disaster that has been our OL-RB recruiting since 2005 (2002 in the case of the OL) to go with the fantastic miss on Garrett Gilbert is exactly why this team has been 13-12 since that night in LA.

    It's almost shameful how bad we have recruited at those two positions. Hopefully the Brown/Bergeron/Gray trio and the two most recent OL classes will break the streak, but we haven't had an OL of note since Justin Blalock and we haven't had a RB of note since Jamaal Charles.

  6. #6
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    More than anything, this just shows what a complete badass Colt was. Shame the Browns seem to have broken him.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by brickhorn View Post
    so, you're saying colt mccoy was a miracle worker who did more with less? Gotcha.

    fify

  8. #8
    Buckner and Malcolm Williams had pro potential. Buckner, in particular, was saddled with personal issues.
    Ulatoski, Huey, Hix had pro bodies

    Offensive recruiting post-2005 was good enough. Player development on the offensive side of the ball and in the weight room had the biggest impact.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Quick View Post
    The disaster that has been our OL-RB recruiting since 2005 (2002 in the case of the OL) to go with the fantastic miss on Garrett Gilbert is exactly why this team has been 13-12 since that night in LA.

    It's almost shameful how bad we have recruited at those two positions. Hopefully the Brown/Bergeron/Gray trio and the two most recent OL classes will break the streak, but we haven't had an OL of note since Justin Blalock and we haven't had a RB of note since Jamaal Charles.
    Outside of Quan and Ship, add in WR to that list. Gilbert actually could have carried the team to victory in Pasadena if the WR caught the damn ball...

    And, yes, it just goes to show that Colt, Quan, and Ship were flat out carrying some terrible "talent" around them.

  10. #10
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    Man, imagine if Colt had a real running back that year or in 2008. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimohorn View Post
    Buckner and Malcolm Williams had pro potential. Buckner, in particular, was saddled with personal issues.
    Ulatoski, Huey, Hix had pro bodies

    Offensive recruiting post-2005 was good enough. Player development on the offensive side of the ball and in the weight room had the biggest impact.
    Agreed to disagree.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimohorn View Post
    Buckner and Malcolm Williams had pro potential. Buckner, in particular, was saddled with personal issues.
    Ulatoski, Huey, Hix had pro bodies

    Offensive recruiting post-2005 was good enough. Player development on the offensive side of the ball and in the weight room had the biggest impact.
    Are you serious? We have had 17 players drafted in the last 4 drafts (which in and of itself is a problem as that number is not high enough) and of those 17, only 3 were offensive players (McCoy, Shipley and Ogbonnaya). The rest were defensive players several of whom have been outstanding to this point in the NFL.

    Look at those numbers further, Ogbonnaya and Shipley were both in the '04 class and McCoy was in the '05 class. This means that we didn't have a single offensive player from the '06, '07 and '08 recruiting classes drafted. Digest that for a moment, not a SINGLE player from 30-35 scholarships given in that time period. This tells me those classes absolutely stunk and to say that it was entirely on the coaching staff's inability to develop them would be only half the story. The other half is the need to blame the coaching staff for also getting lazy in recruiting and taking kids that simply were not very good.

  13. #13
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    The only route Malcolm Williams could run was the 9.


    Buckner has done decent at Arizona

  14. #14
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    Yes, Buckner is a possible third day pick next year.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huckleberry View Post
    Yes, Buckner is a possible third day pick next year.
    Dan Buckner is a pussy scared of contact who does a better job of faking injuries after plays than making plays. If he's drafted in the NFL with mediocre speed, a sketchy off the field background, and a disdain for contact, I'll eat my hat. He's the type of average college player that the NFL draft generally filters out because his measurables won't be stunning and the work ethic won't be there to change that.

    As to Eskimohorn's post, wow. Every $#@!ing OL recruited to major D1, with the possible exception of guys from the last few McWhorter classes, has an "NFL body". There is no defending the recruiting decisions made in that time period, and why in the hell would anyone want to do so? Being contrarian on this only identifies you as someone to laugh at in the future. The numbers weren't there in performance. They weren't there in the draft. They weren't there in terms of the new staff being able to develop anything either.

    The only things to go off of with a shred of "well, it wasn't recruiting" are the recruiting rankings from that time period. While certainly dip$#@! Ketchum and his band of sycophants thought highly of what was being brought in, there were numerous posters on the boards who straight up knew that Texas was not doing what it could be doing in recruiting and said as much. Of course, there was a lot of $#@!-talking at them to go with those thoughts, but those thoughts were there, on Hornfans, later BC, and numerous private boards. The Fizthenry class actually had people en masse saying "trust Mack" like aggies to the dissenters. No, these classes were about recruiting. Development sucked too, but you can't develop lead into gold, and that's the task that any staff would have faced with those classes. Terrible, tired take.

  16. #16
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    I didn't say I would draft him.

    It was just too late to edit the original post to show that he's not done with college football yet. Didn't want it to be misleading. Although to be honest I've seen worse draft picks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimohorn View Post
    Offensive recruiting post-2005 was good enough. Player development on the offensive side of the ball and in the weight room had the biggest impact.
    This is true. Go look at the Rivals 250 list for 2006 - 2010. We had PLENTY of offensive players. We had almost NO development. The number of non-contributors (never played a down) and transfers out of that list is absurd.

  18. #18
    Compared to Alabama:

    OFFENSE
    QB Greg McElroy - 2010 7th Round
    RB Mark Ingram - 2010 1st Round
    RB Trent Richardson - 2012 1st Round
    FB Brad Smelley - 2012 7th Round
    WR Julio Jones - 2011 1st Round
    WR Marquis Maze - Undrafted
    TE Colin Peek - Undrafted
    OL James Carpenter - 2011 1st Round
    OL Mike Johnson - 2010 3rd Round
    OL William Vlachos - Undrafted
    OL Barrett Jones - Class of 2013 (#1 ranked C by NFLDraftScout.com)
    OL Drew Davis - Undrafted

    DEFENSE

    DL Brandon Deaderick - 2010 7th Round
    DL Terrance Cody - 2010 2nd Round
    DL Lorenzo Washington - Undrafted
    LB Rolando McClain - 2010 1st Round
    LB Dont'a Hightower - 2012 1st Round
    LB Cory Reamer - Undrafted
    LB Eryk Anders - Undrafted
    CB Kareem Jackson - 2010 1st Round
    CB Javier Arenas - 2010 2nd Round
    S Mark Barron - 2012 1st Round
    S Justin Woodall - Undrafted

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierHorn View Post
    This is true. Go look at the Rivals 250 list for 2006 - 2010. We had PLENTY of offensive players. We had almost NO development. The number of non-contributors (never played a down) and transfers out of that list is absurd.
    Recruiting v Development is a Catch 22. At the time, from '06-10, our recruiting rankings overall were Top 10. Only a handful of schools could claim more recruiting success than Texas based on those ratings during this time period. Yet, that did not translate to success on the field, or talent to the NFL. So, what can explain that discrepancy?

    1) It could be a conspiracy of the recruiting services. When they rated Trey Allen 5*, Michael Huey and Kyle Hix 4*, Dan Buckner 4*, Darius White 5*, Gilbert 5*, it was based on their commitment to Texas and not the player they were in high school. Keep in mind, that Texas was never out of the Top 15 no matter what service rated them.
    2) Greg Davis, McWhorter, Kennedy all were cashing paychecks and through scheme and complacency, did not develop these players.
    3) Fat Dog

    I think 2-3 were bigger issues than 1.

  20. #20
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    Don't forget Acho @ LB 6th rd.

    Vaccaro as dime back will be drafted next year.

    I am the minority here but I feel Tre Newton and Fozzy were underrated. If Fozzy stays healthy he's probably drafted and if Tre didn't hang it up he probably is too. Not JCharles, Ricky, or Benson talents but probably say three picks.

    OL recruiting was a disaster recently though. McWhorter coached them well but could not recruit well. He turned the UT OL around into a strong pass pro unit when he arrived. The early 2000s were horrific in that regard and it would have been interesting to see Simms with decent pass pro. Any good D befuddled his OL protection schemes.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Quick View Post
    This tells me those classes absolutely stunk and to say that it was entirely on the coaching staff's inability to develop them would be only half the story. The other half is the need to blame the coaching staff for also getting lazy in recruiting and taking kids that simply were not very good.
    Your logic is flawed. Most of the players that were busts were actively recruited by other schools. You assume had they ended up on other teams, they'd suck the same. Recruits (and therefore recruiting classes) can only be judged by what they did before Signing Day. And by this measure, Texas had plenty of recruiting talent to develop based on recruiting service rankings.

    Once they got on campus, our recruits learned to reach block and fall on the ground, get injured due to lazy strength & conditioning, run lazy routes, get put in bad positions in the passing game (dink and dunk) and get killed for it, and see less talented upperclassmen get more PT.

    Recruiting pre-2010 could have been better. There were plenty of reaches and mismatches, but overall our recruiting classes were the envy of the Big 12.

    From 2006-2010, our Rivals ranking in the Big 12 was #1, #1, #2, #1, & #1.
    Last edited by Eskimohorn; 04-30-2012 at 10:47 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizzou415 View Post
    Compared to Alabama:

    OFFENSE
    QB Greg McElroy - 2010 7th Round
    RB Mark Ingram - 2010 1st Round
    RB Trent Richardson - 2012 1st Round
    FB Brad Smelley - 2012 7th Round
    WR Julio Jones - 2011 1st Round
    WR Marquis Maze - Undrafted
    TE Colin Peek - Undrafted
    OL James Carpenter - 2011 1st Round
    OL Mike Johnson - 2010 3rd Round
    OL William Vlachos - Undrafted
    OL Barrett Jones - Class of 2013 (#1 ranked C by NFLDraftScout.com)
    OL Drew Davis - Undrafted

    DEFENSE

    DL Brandon Deaderick - 2010 7th Round. 4.95
    DL Terrance Cody - 2010 2nd Round. 5.7
    DL Lorenzo Washington - undrafted. 5.1
    LB Rolando McClain - 2010 1st Round. 4.69
    LB Dont'a Hightower - 2012 1st Round. (injured did not play but 4.7)
    LB Cory Reamer - Undrafted. 4.93
    LB Eryk Anders - Undrafted. 4.67
    CB Kareem Jackson - 2010 1st Round. 4.45
    CB Javier Arenas - 2010 2nd Round 4.53
    S Mark Barron - 2012 1st Round. 4.55
    S Justin Woodall - Undrafted. 4.6
    Just to blow the sec speed myth open. They have great athletes but Texas had the faster D that year by far. I put in their test times.

    They had Dareus, McClain, and Barron who are fast for their size but won't be any faster that their smaller UT counterparts. Woodall, Reamer, and their nickelback (4.6 at 185) are simply not that fast. There is a reason Shipley was running circles around them like Utah did the year before.

    Compare to UT-

    Randall is a low 5s NT
    Houston at 300 lb DT was 4.85
    Two 260 pound DEs with low 4.6 speed
    Three 230 lb lbs with 4.6-4.7 speed
    Every db in their nickel set is 4.4 range except Gideon who is quicker than Woodall.

    Bama was the better team (would perform better against common foes in series play) but UT with Colt would probably take a best of 7 series vs Bama in game 5 or 6.

  23. #23
    To be fair, comparing DL speeds between 3-4 ends and 4-3 ends isn't exactly a 1:1 comparison.

  24. #24
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    So everyone on offense except Colt and Jordan, and Gideon? Figures.

    That was a weird year in college football. We really had no business playing for a national championship.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizzou415 View Post
    To be fair, comparing DL speeds between 3-4 ends and 4-3 ends isn't exactly a 1:1 comparison.

    Report to basketball board please. Shaggy Fantasy Draft Thread!

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    imo, our level of recruiting never changed, or changed slightly.

    our level of coaching (especially at OL) and conditioning finally caught up with us. go look at the TWO conference championships we've had in FOURTEEN seasons... the QB played out of this world in both of those seasons, while running for their lives (except 2005)... and played pretty damn well the prior year, when we didn't win the conference, but did go to a BCS bowl.

    recruiting has been consistent... this is why Mr. February is Mr. February, when he needs to be Mr. October.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizzou415 View Post
    To be fair, comparing DL speeds between 3-4 ends and 4-3 ends isn't exactly a 1:1 comparison.
    True but lets compare their nickel front six (4-2 alignment) which is comparing similar responsibility.

    Dareus is quicker than Randall at nose
    Houston is quicker than Washington at three tech DT
    Power end gives Acho a big edge over Deaderick in quickness but both are quick for their size.
    Rush end/jack lb - Kindle is faster than Anders and 20-30 lbs heavier.
    Mike backer- McClain is 4.69 and 255 and Muck was 4.71 and 242. Edge McClain speed wise.
    2nd Nickel LB- Robinson is 10lbs heavier and 2 tenths faster than Reamer. No contest.

    Not saying one is better overall than the other. Depends who you are playing. Bama is built to stop power run offenses and take their chances with lesser passing foes in tight coverage outside.

    09 Texas was built to stop teams that spread you out and throw all freakin day. Lighter players at DE, LB, and safety who tend to run, cover, and rush the passer better fit this approach better. The Utah team that shredded the 08 bama D would be stonewalled by 09 UT. Just the same the 2009 UT defense would struggle more with a team that power runs very well and could push Kindle, Acho, and the LBs around.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierHorn View Post
    imo, our level of recruiting never changed, or changed slightly.

    our level of coaching (especially at OL) and conditioning finally caught up with us. go look at the TWO conference championships we've had in FOURTEEN seasons... the QB played out of this world in both of those seasons, while running for their lives (except 2005)... and played pretty damn well the prior year, when we didn't win the conference, but did go to a BCS bowl.

    recruiting has been consistent... this is why Mr. February is Mr. February, when he needs to be Mr. October.
    McWhorters recruiting woes were not due to being unable to land players- it was poor talent evaluation.

    Texas had elite run blocking in the late 2003 games up until 2007 injuries. Right around the time the pre McWhorter recruits were playing. Not a coincidence. After that it was a talent dropoff from poor talent evaluation.

    My take on UT OL under Brown-

    1998 senior OL overcame bad coaching as they were ready before Mack got here

    1999-early 2003- Great talent, pathetic coaching

    Late 2003 to 2007 pre injury- Best of both

    07 on- Solid coaching getting better than B12 average results out of non elite talents

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierHorn View Post
    imo, our level of recruiting never changed, or changed slightly.

    our level of coaching (especially at OL) and conditioning finally caught up with us. go look at the TWO conference championships we've had in FOURTEEN seasons... the QB played out of this world in both of those seasons, while running for their lives (except 2005)... and played pretty damn well the prior year, when we didn't win the conference, but did go to a BCS bowl.

    recruiting has been consistent... this is why Mr. February is Mr. February, when he needs to be Mr. October.
    If you think that the OL talent is anywhere close to 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 or 2006 you are delusional. Davis, M Williams, D Dockery, Sendlein, Scott, Blalock, Hills... nobody the last couple of years is remotely on par. Same at TE. David Thomas, Bo Scaife, and Finley are worlds better than recent offerings.

    Recruiting ranking has been consistent. Actual ability up front? Not even close.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huckleberry View Post
    OFFENSE

    QB Colt McCoy - 2010 3rd Round
    RB Tre Newton - Undrafted
    WR Dan Buckner - Undrafted
    WR James Kirkendoll - Undrafted
    WR Jordan Shipley - 2010 3rd Round
    WR Malcolm Williams - Undrafted
    OL Adam Ulatoski - Undrafted
    OL Charlie Tanner - Undrafted
    OL Chris Hall - Undrafted
    OL Michael Huey - Undrafted
    OL Kyle Hix - Undrafted

    DEFENSE

    DL Sergio Kindle - 2010 2nd Round
    DL Kheeston Randall - 2012 7th Round
    DL Lamarr Houston - 2010 2nd Round
    DL Sam Acho - 2011 4th Round
    LB Keenan Robinson - 2012 4th Round
    LB Roddrick Muckelroy - 2010 4th Round
    CB Aaron Williams - 2011 2nd Round
    CB Chykie Brown - 2011 5th Round
    S Earl Thomas - 2010 1st Round
    S Blake Gideon - Undrafted
    DB Curtis Brown - 2011 3rd Round
    Strangely this looks like a John Mackovic type of draft. Few if any offensive guys despite our offensive abilities, and plenty of defensive guys.

    And you really have to put an asterisk by this game. If Colt doesn't leave the game, we stomp their goofy asses and our entire offensive personnel and really the whole team is seen in a different light in regards to their draftability because they will have won a National Championship.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huckleberry View Post
    I didn't say I would draft him.

    It was just too late to edit the original post to show that he's not done with college football yet. Didn't want it to be misleading. Although to be honest I've seen worse draft picks.
    see: tannehill, ryan

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy11 View Post
    If you think that the OL talent is anywhere close to 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 or 2006 you are delusional. Davis, M Williams, D Dockery, Sendlein, Scott, Blalock, Hills... nobody the last couple of years is remotely on par. Same at TE. David Thomas, Bo Scaife, and Finley are worlds better than recent offerings.

    Recruiting ranking has been consistent. Actual ability up front? Not even close.
    Call me delusional, but the talent coming in the door was close enough. Go back and look at the classes - don't compare the end result when you talk about recruiting. Compare what we're getting in the door. There wasn't a lack of talent. There was a lack of coaching.

    Hell, look at last year; same level of talent as the previous two or three years, but better results at OL.

  33. #33
    asshat Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone slams and goes hard. Tx2DaBone's Avatar
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    If Buckner has a good senior year, he could be a 3rd or 4th round pick next year. When fully healthy his size and speed is pretty impressive.

  34. #34

  35. #35
    asshat BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge?
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    Only took that pussy 15 days to be placed on IR

  36. #36
    asshat H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX's Avatar
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    was Hix the one who gave a 3/8th ass attempt to tackle that Bama guy on the bumbled shuttle pass at the end of the first half?

  37. #37
    asshat closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierHorn View Post
    imo, our level of recruiting never changed, or changed slightly.

    our level of coaching (especially at OL) and conditioning finally caught up with us. go look at the TWO conference championships we've had in FOURTEEN seasons... the QB played out of this world in both of those seasons, while running for their lives (except 2005)... and played pretty damn well the prior year, when we didn't win the conference, but did go to a BCS bowl.

    recruiting has been consistent... this is why Mr. February is Mr. February, when he needs to be Mr. October.
    How closely have you followed recruiting, Hoosier? I ask because from a rankings perspective, no doubt very little changed. From a behavioral perspective, a ton of $#@! changed. Losing Brewster hurt big time. They stopped traveling, they started taking even more CenTex players and they abandoned East Texas. They didn't even return many OOS recruits phone calls and they basked in their own genius of having everything wrapped up by the end of March of each class' junior years. That wasn't always the case and it damn sure isn't the case now. I alluded to this earlier. You will not find a rational human being who followed recruiting passionately on this board who thought things were fine at that point in time. Frankly, I was worried and pessimistic about the 2005 class as well. The hit rate on that class was outstanding, however, and that enabled some bull$#@! to be delayed with the following 4 classes.

    There is a consistent tendency on the boards to eliminate the human elements from the decisionmaking processes with college football. This is the distance illusion. It happens in things like politics and business as well when the average joe views things through their own lens. As we're further away from the situation and the less it matches our own lives, the more we tend to feel a disconnect to the process and apply a much less human viewpoint to what we're witnessing. It's why folks are incredulous when they hear that Mack Brown let his folks run amok for years. How could someone in that position do such a thing? Well, it happens to all humans. He got content, complacent, and lazy and others took advantage of that. It is hard to stay hungry. It happens in marriages, friendships, work settings, etc. You hit a certain point and cruise control sets in. You put a halo effect around folks you want to admire or respect because you don't want to know the underbelly or do the work for them.

    Well, all of that $#@! happens to recruiting gurus following programs too. If Texas is on someone, they're going to get noticed by the gurus and they're going to be elevated often enough, even when they shouldn't be. On top of someone like Ketchum being lazy and letting the staff do work for him, he's got a business incentive to go along and get along with what they're doing. Why would he want to throw a bunch of sand at what they're doing on the recruiting trail? Negativity might lose subscribers and it will damn sure lose sources. It doesn't help that Jabba never leaves his ship in CenTex, so confirmation bias also plays a big role with guys from Lake Travis and other mediocre takes around there including, yes, P-ville. If you're Rivals, or some other large entity with a massive subsidiary doing big business with a loyal following, you're going to give the subsidiary some leeway when it comes to evals and national rankings for his area's talent and his team's takes. It isn't as if this has only happened with Texas. Go look at Texas ATM classes in the mid-00's. Notre Dame for forever. Michigan leading up to Carr's exit. Tennessee late in the Fulmer era. The list is endless. Gurus pork it up for the same reasons anyone else does, even when they're not lazy.

    The truth is, the recruiting rankings for Texas during this period were dramatically inflated. People closer to it knew this, but good luck fighting that on any level. It doesn't mean that rankings before and after were inflated. If Texas is always going to be ranked in the top 10 in recruiting classes, consistency isn't really a harbinger of getting things right. An analyst would, and did, doubt himself before doubting the apparently more absurd possibility that Texas is taking a bunch of guys that other teams don't want. That is exactly what happened. Texas stopped competing with guys like OU, OSU, and LSU for players, but still wound up with a bunch of players highly ranked. Other schools kept doing work, and Texas kept sniffing its own farts. That recruiting gurus failed to notice and the rankings didn't change is actually the simplest damned answer on the board. No one had any incentive to change a thing, other than skeptical fans watching the process.

  38. #38
    asshat BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tx2DaBone View Post
    If Buckner has a good senior year, he could be a 3rd or 4th round pick next year. When fully healthy his size and speed is pretty impressive.
    I don't think his speed is that impressive and he's not very physical for someone his size. His biggest problem his freshmen year he couldn't get off bump n run coverage. He was getting checked at the LOS by teams like Rice cornerbacks.

  39. #39
    asshat H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX is a rep whore. H34TX's Avatar
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    you don't have to have top shelf NFL talent to have a good OLine - see how Iowa St and UCLA rammed our throats in 2010. Flawless execution, timing, synchronicity!

  40. #40
    asshat BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge?
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    CTJ,

    A lot of times the people who knew football and actually watched a lot of the recruits play would say something negative about him and give an honest opinion of how the guy wasn't impressive. Then those who loosely followed recruiting and such would say what do you know and etc. Then end the sentence with "In mack we trust."

  41. #41
    asshat BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge?
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    Quote Originally Posted by H34TX View Post
    you don't have to have top shelf NFL talent to have a good OLine - see how Iowa St and UCLA rammed our throats in 2010. Flawless execution, timing, synchronicity!
    You are comparing us to Iowa $#@!ing State and UC $#@!ing LA?

    At Texas we should be pumping out players to the league at majority of the positions like the Bamas, USC, and other top tier schools are.

  42. #42
    asshat closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierHorn View Post
    Call me delusional, but the talent coming in the door was close enough. Go back and look at the classes - don't compare the end result when you talk about recruiting. Compare what we're getting in the door. There wasn't a lack of talent. There was a lack of coaching.

    Hell, look at last year; same level of talent as the previous two or three years, but better results at OL.
    See the post I just made. Your basic assumption is incorrect. Texas did not continue to land elite OL talent. On paper, sure, but they were getting their head handed to them by other programs during this period on evaluation. Texas passed on Okung, multiple LSU guys, a couple of Baylor dudes, and every ATM OL up to Matthews. Not only that, but Texas did not go and scout and uncover any new talent elsewhere that other schools whiffed on.

    Tray Allen was considered an elite talent coming out. Webb was similar. Maybe you can throw Hix and Huey in there. Fine. It's Texas, that should happen. Poehlmann, Buchanan, Moore, Hall, Tanner, Watts, Burnette, McGaskey, on and on, those guys were not stud recruits. Did some wind up with solid star rankings? Sure. Halo effect. McWhorter started taking a bunch of skinny white guys and developed a reputation as a guy that wasn't too concerned about the development of the brothers and his $#@!ing territory was East Texas. This is a guy who stopped doing work in recruiting and stopped caring about what that meant. He was not bringing in elite talent on the OL in any way, shape or form at a mass level, which is what OL needs.
    Last edited by closetojumping; 04-30-2012 at 01:05 PM.

  43. #43
    I think you can also point to our off the field problems. Mack made it a point to recruit high character guys because he was sick of the off the field stuff. That tweak in recruiting nearly cost him his job.....

  44. #44
    asshat closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses closetojumping grows his own roses
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast 512 View Post
    I think you can also point to our off the field problems. Mack made it a point to recruit high character guys because he was sick of the off the field stuff. That tweak in recruiting nearly cost him his job.....
    Part of the issue there is that he also decided that Texas could recruit to a higher academic standard than the NCAA mandated. He passed on a number of players over a 2-3 year period that would have otherwise been playing for Texas instead of OU, Baylor, OSU, etc. It was pure arrogance when coupled with an unwillingness to go national or even outwork local competitors.

  45. #45
    I'll never understand the "trust in mack" crowd. He $#@!ing let this program go $#@!, not because he made bad decisions. He just stopped giving a $#@!.

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by closetojumping View Post
    The truth is, the recruiting rankings for Texas during this period were dramatically inflated. People closer to it knew this, but good luck fighting that on any level. It doesn't mean that rankings before and after were inflated. If Texas is always going to be ranked in the top 10 in recruiting classes, consistency isn't really a harbinger of getting things right. An analyst would, and did, doubt himself before doubting the apparently more absurd possibility that Texas is taking a bunch of guys that other teams don't want. That is exactly what happened. Texas stopped competing with guys like OU, OSU, and LSU for players, but still wound up with a bunch of players highly ranked. Other schools kept doing work, and Texas kept sniffing its own farts. That recruiting gurus failed to notice and the rankings didn't change is actually the simplest damned answer on the board. No one had any incentive to change a thing, other than skeptical fans watching the process.
    Dramatically inflated? Doubtful. Use any other services rankings at the time and Texas still have the best recruiting rankings during 2006-10. According to Rivals, not only did Texas recruit the best from 06-10 in the Big 12, it wasn't even close. Recruiting bias can't explain that huge discrepancy, nor the consensus on all of our 4-5* takes.

    I don't buy it. Just look at Trey Allen, Garrett Gilbert and Darius White. Consensus 5*s. Offers from every school in the country. The only knock on Gilbert was that he was more pro-style than dual-threat and that Greg Davis needed a QB who made off-schedule plays. "We needed Russell Shepard not Gilbert." Bottom-line, Gilbert was a more successful college QB than Shepard. But who's to say Shepard couldn't have developed as a QB on a West Virginia offense, for example? Or, what if Mike Leach got his hands on Gilbert, or Connor Wood for that matter?

    While we appreciate your micro-strategy analysis on Texas recruiting woes (and we had some), in the big picture we had more than enough talent on both sides of the ball to succeed if we had good, hungry coaches back then.

  47. #47
    asshat BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? BurntOrange&White might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimohorn View Post
    Dramatically inflated? Doubtful. Use any other services rankings at the time and Texas still have the best recruiting rankings during 2006-10. According to Rivals, not only did Texas recruit the best from 06-10 in the Big 12, it wasn't even close. Recruiting bias can't explain that huge discrepancy, nor the consensus on all of our 4-5* takes.

    I don't buy it. Just look at Trey Allen, Garrett Gilbert and Darius White. Consensus 5*s. Offers from every school in the country. The only knock on Gilbert was that he was more pro-style than dual-threat and that Greg Davis needed a QB who made off-schedule plays. "We needed Russell Shepard not Gilbert." Bottom-line, Gilbert was a more successful college QB than Shepard. But who's to say Shepard couldn't have developed as a QB on a West Virginia offense, for example? Or, what if Mike Leach got his hands on Gilbert, or Connor Wood for that matter?

    While we appreciate your micro-strategy analysis on Texas recruiting woes (and we had some), in the big picture we had more than enough talent on both sides of the ball to succeed if we had good, hungry coaches back then.
    I would take Shephards no QB stats over GG's QB stats.


    Coaching them up once they get to campus isn't the only thing the coaches didn't do. CTJ's point is that the coaching staff was so $#@!ing lazy recruiting and relied on recruiting services for who they should go after instead of watching film on their own and going out and see the kid in person and actively recruiting. They would get initial reports on kids and just take the highest rated kids early that "wanted to be at Texas." Some of those initial reports weren't that good but we couldn't go back on the scholarship and yes a lot of the stayed ranked where they were because they were committed to us.
    Last edited by BurntOrange&White; 04-30-2012 at 01:47 PM.

  48. #48
    bunghole scally slams and goes hard. scally slams and goes hard. scally slams and goes hard. scally slams and goes hard. scally slams and goes hard. scally slams and goes hard. scally slams and goes hard. scally slams and goes hard. scally slams and goes hard. scally slams and goes hard. scally slams and goes hard.
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    No, man. you're wrong.

  49. #49
    asshat Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Kid Quick's Avatar
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    I think everybody, from Mack to the janitors, breathed a huge sigh of relief after the '05 season. They got all the monkeys off their back in a 13-game period of time and Mack's legacy is cemented. But instead of capitalizing on that success, they got lazy and provincial. Combine that with the Robert Joseph/Andre Jones debacle, and Mack stayed away from players with more troubled backgrounds and pasts.

    Understand that if a 3-star QB from 2a Jim Ned doesn't become a star, Mack is fired years ago. Colt McCoy bailed this coaching staff out through the years of sub par recruiting, poor coaching/development and incredibly bad conditioning.

    Maybe all that has changed, but we didn't get this bad overnight, even if it felt like it, and we will not return to power that quickly either unless David Ash is the second coming of Colt McCoy.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by BurntOrange&White View Post
    I would take Shephards no QB stats over GG's QB stats.


    Coaching them up once they get to campus isn't the only thing the coaches didn't do. CTJ's point is that the coaching staff was so $#@!ing lazy recruiting and relied on recruiting services for who they should go after instead of watching film on their own and going out and see the kid in person and actively recruiting. They would get initial reports on kids and just take the highest rated kids early that "wanted to be at Texas." Some of those initial reports weren't that good but we couldn't go back on the scholarship and yes a lot of the stayed ranked where they were because they were committed to us.
    I understood CTJ's analysis of the deficiencies of Texas recruiting strategy. Not only were there some over-rated players, but there were some mismatched players (on the o-line in particular). That being said, even if you throw out Rivals rankings, there's not a team in the Big 12 that out-recruited Texas from 2006-10.

    At some point, when you have an offensive coordinator that refuses to incorporate a running game into the offense, an strength and conditioning coach who checks out, an o-line coach who doesn't develop a two-deep, a receiver coach who allows receivers to take plays off, you have to acknowledge that the major discrepancy between recruiting rankings and performance was player development and not recruiting services. Geoff Ketchum's not responsible or important enough to be responsible for 13-12.

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