340 total yards against Tech; 10-3 halftime lead
313 total yards against Colorado; offense scored 17 pts including a garbage time TD
269 total yards against OU; three field goals and a touchdown
275 total yards against Oklahoma State; offense scored 24 pts
21 pts after three quarters against UCF
202 yards and 13 pts against Nebraska
77 yards in the first half against Alabama
That offense was so pathetic so often. God, do I despise Greg Davis
After comparing our list with Bama's, and considering Colt's absence combined with GG's abilities (or lack thereof), one thing jumps out at me more than anything else: Jordan Shipley is a certified badass.
Last edited by H34TX; 04-30-2012 at 03:12 PM.
In fact, 2010 is an example, as is Darius White, of how terrific recruiting over a long period of time forgives the misses. White not producing hurts, but Texas has signed some good-to-great WRs around and over him and that will continue. Mike Davis is an example of Texas getting it wrong in March and getting it right on signing day. Yeah, he struggled late last season, but he's be a damned good overall take, especially if he builds back up over 2012 and 2013. Texas missed his evaluation, let him go to LSU, and then watched more film, kept working him, and turned him back to the good guys later in the process. Without Davis, the White miss is larger. Getting Harris right didn't hurt, either. Shipley is a legacy so Texas would have probably gotten him either way. The rest of the guys in the last two classes are debatable, however. The difference and diversity in what they can do the offense versus what the WR classes in 2006-2009 looked like is ridiculous.
It isn't about getting a few 5 stars and some 4 stars. It's about getting enough of the ones who have the right ceiling and work ethic to build a solid foundation for titles. They signed Tray Allen without knowing where they were even going to play him. Worse, they didn't know what kind of offensive lineman they really wanted at any spot. That's a recruiting recipe for failure. OLs don't go anywhere else and they don't leave. They are literally extra weight for a roster than can't be shaken. Is some of that developmental? Yes. But some of it, most of it, is letting the market tell you what kind of OL you like based on who the easiest assets are to recruit. Guess who those were? Soft CenTex white boys who had dreamed of playing for Texas all of their soft lives. Yea!! for us. It certainly wasn't going out and finding Russell Okung or Trent Williams.
You may not think the behavior around Gilbert was recruiting related or a recruiting problem long term, but I can only laugh and eye roll at that one. They detached themselves from the Texas QB pipeline for two years to get the guy. Again, they had no clue what they wanted him to do in the offense, but they knew they wanted him. Part of that was he wanted them, but his dad had conditions. That happened. So it isn't about Russell Shepard. It's about Russell Shepard and 5 other QBs they should have pursued to land one or two. It's about a bunch of skill guys that they missed on or will miss on because of the offensive debacle. Dontre Wilson is about to be the latest. All of this begins in recruiting. Great programs have guys to replace the busts. Mediocre programs don't. Texas went from being a great program to a mediocre program because they let recruiting atrophy over a 4 year period and no one noticed until a lot of the who-dats, irrespective of guru rank, had to play and lead the team. The results over the last two years reflect as much.
There is a reason I've said for years on these boards that the rankings in recruiting don't mean jack $#@!. We witnessed the ATM ranking inflation to appease the recruitnik offline ATM following from 1999 forward. That told me all I needed to know about how the game is played in the recruiting world. I already pointed to similar issues with other programs for the exact same reasons. If you and many others didn't see the freight train coming with the talent pool, it's because you legitimately didn't follow it that closely, which makes sense and is understandable, or you didn't want to believe that the same things we mocked Rivals and Scout for with other programs were happening here, too. I don't think a single person predicted 5-7, but I fully expected 7-5 for several years before Mack "retired" because of what was happening. Luckily?, it was a harsher turn and he was forced to change things or tarnish his legacy, so we've got light at the tunnel now that isn't actually a train.
Even Rivals star ratings can be used as an indicator of Pro Draft success? Yet, Texas' recruiting rankings: players drafted do not correlate from 06-10. You indicate that discrepancy is due to recruiting bias. I suggest it has more to do with player development (or lack thereof). And, by a lot.
Last edited by Eskimohorn; 04-30-2012 at 03:47 PM.
I don't indicate that "the discrepancy is due to recruiting bias". I indicate that that is part of the problem and the single biggest factor in the discussion pertaining to whether or not recruiting matters in the context of UT's highly rated classes versus performance. Ranking inflation will skew everything. Beyond that, yeah, the development needs to be there and that's been beaten to death. Overall, the raw materials matter first, everything else follows. Texas has been working with adobe; OU, LSU, etc., with steel. That hasn't always been the case but it's how it shook out from 2006-2009.
Again, I don't understand why you keep lumping 2010 into any of this, though. Is that moving the overall rankings into where you want them to be for the purposes of this dialogue? Or is it something that is stuck in your head as type. That 2010 class is a boom or bust class, and one that anyone would take. I count 13 players who have started or will start from that group. I see 9-10 draft picks depending upon how Wilson continues to develop. Several players from that class will go highly, as soon as next season if they declare early - Jeffcoat and Byndom, for sure. Hicks, Davis, Dorsey, Cobbs, Hopkins, Phillips, Jackson, Wilson, and, gulp, Espinosa, could all be drafted if they continue to develop.
Good point on recruiters getting lazy. Dez Bryant would have most likely come here and been All-world for 2 years. You go get the mega-school juicy 5* star who really is not much of a baller, he just looks good playing Jersey Village or North Garland - no offense to either of those fine schools.
Ranking inflation does not skew everything, when Texas ranking is Top 5, Top 10 and/or Top 15 in most or all recruiting services each year from 2006-2010. Unless all services are skewed towards Texas. When you benchmark Texas to its peers in the Big 12, our recruiting advantage is almost overwhelming during this time.
You indicate Texas did not have the raw materials, yet I disagree with you, as did Rivals, ESPN, Scout.com and everyone else at the time. Once they came to Texas, these highly touted raw materials came to a dysfunctional environment, sat on the bench behind the 2003-05 classes, misbehaved, got poor academic advice, got poor weight room training, were put in bad schemes, were not instructed on the fundamentals and coasted behind McCoy/Shipley, Muschamp and superior special teams.
After all this arrested development, then critics argue how bad our recruiting was between 2006-2009. And, now you claim 2010 could be boom or bust, yet that class was filled in the same way as it was from 2006-09, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Only now are these players being given year-round leadership by coaches and players. This is proof positive how critical player development is in how we view the efficacy of recruiting classes.
our entire OL went undrafted?
Regardless, the end result is the same: our offense sucked because our offensive staff sucked. Whether they sucked more at evaluation, recruiting, or development really doesn't matter. The fact is that they sucked badly enough at one or more of those jobs to basically tank the program.
This happens a lot in recruiting. Nearly every basketball recruit for Duke or UNC shoots up the rankings under the logic that those schools wanted him, so he must be good, right? Wojo and Neil Fingleton were named McDonald's All Americans for crying out loud, and they basically sucked.
Last edited by longhornmatt; 04-30-2012 at 05:47 PM.
All OPs post tells me is what everyone always preaches...
D wins championships. The problem for Texas is Bama had a pretty dam good D too
Therefore when I say "recruiting didn't change," I'm referring to the HS talent level may have had a slight drop-off, but it wasn't a losing record in the big 12 drop-off... but it certainly wasn't a "we're going to win the big 12" increase in effort, either.
He got content, complacent, and lazy and others took advantage of that. It is hard to stay hungry. It happens in marriages, friendships, work settings, etc. You hit a certain point and cruise control sets in. You put a halo effect around folks you want to admire or respect because you don't want to know the underbelly or do the work for them.I can agree with this, mostly. Recruiting rankings are puffed-up by who is calling on a kid and by local sources. However, *most* of the kids we were after, others were after. Colt McCoy, not so much. Case McCoy not so much... Yeah, we bailed on RGIII and Russell Shepard bailed on us... and Craig Loston couldn't qualify... but who else did we really lose out on that might have made a difference? Martellus Bennett, perhaps. Adrian Peterson.The truth is, the recruiting rankings for Texas during this period were dramatically inflated. People closer to it knew this, but good luck fighting that on any level. It doesn't mean that rankings before and after were inflated. If Texas is always going to be ranked in the top 10 in recruiting classes, consistency isn't really a harbinger of getting things right. An analyst would, and did, doubt himself before doubting the apparently more absurd possibility that Texas is taking a bunch of guys that other teams don't want. That is exactly what happened. Texas stopped competing with guys like OU, OSU, and LSU for players, but still wound up with a bunch of players highly ranked. Other schools kept doing work, and Texas kept sniffing its own farts. That recruiting gurus failed to notice and the rankings didn't change is actually the simplest damned answer on the board. No one had any incentive to change a thing, other than skeptical fans watching the process.
However, I've watched a bunch of kids come in here and get no better than they were in high school.
My guess is, the truth is a bunch of the above. We could have recruited better players who would work to get even better, but it's clear our staff wasn't coaching (S&C, OL, TE) for $#@! lately.
Blake Gideon didn't get drafted? That's mind bottling. Who wouldn't want a coach on the field that targets. I am dissapoint.
Where you see a failure of recruiting, I see great offensive coaching!
Coaching didn't matter with that line. Most of them were just flat out not good enough. You can't turn lead in to gold. It was the perfect storm of offensive line disasters. We recruited skinny guys who were nimble who didn't have the frame to add good weight. Mad Dog made them fat and slow, yet surprisingly weak. Then they were put in a blocking scheme that required the exact opposite of those 3 things. Recruiting evaluations, s&c and coaching were all terrible.
Is it some slam dunk UT would win the Big 12 with an average performance at QB? Not at all. However with some help it could happen.
For UT to reach the next level they need better QB play than what they have post-colt had. That said with the right circumstances and some solid D UT could win it. It would be repeatedly winning ugly like UT did in College Station and like KSU did in 6 games last year but it could do the trick. Had they held on vs OSU it would have won the title for KSU. OSU would have 2 losses (if ISU still wins) and KSU would have had just the loss to OU. KSU is the epitome of average running qb + D + kicking game.
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