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Thread: Does anyone watch Frontline anymore? Money, Power & Wall Street

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    Does anyone watch Frontline anymore? Money, Power & Wall Street

    I saw the 3rd and 4th hour on the Frontline series - "Money, Power & Wall Street" last night.

    It stuck knives in the F9 monkeys, quants, traders, the Too Big To Fail Banks, Geithner, Summers, so-called reform known as Dodd-Frank, and Obama.

    It was most critical of Obama for bowing to the 13 Bankers when he summoned them to the White House and then said - How can I help you. Geithner, as expected, comes off as a pussy for the Banks.

    After the Banks got what they wanted, they ignored the President. He made them stronger and they didn't need him anymore.

    You can watch it all online at: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...r-wall-street/

    Hours 1 and 2 cover the run up. 3 and 4 cover the fact that banks aren't in the business of lending money for infrastructure. They rip the faces off their own customers in pursuit of more money for themselves.

    Obama had a Tora Bora moment when he could have shifted the balance of power with the banks (surprisingly, Summers ends up being one of the guys who called for banks to be broken up - let them fail). Why didn't he? The take away is that he wanted to cozy up to the establishment as represented by the banks and Geithner acted as the fluffer to get the banks ready for a grand old $#@!ing of Americans.

    Fascinating program, for those of you with an attention span of 4 hours or more (I know; that is asking a lot from those who grew up with instant gratification, but it will be important to you some day).

    The major blame for the problem is aimed at the repeal of Glass-Steagall by the Republican Congress and President Clinton, as orchestrated by Citi. This isn't capitalism. This was engineered by a manipulation of federal laws at the bequest of banks with eager politicians ready to rake in the big bucks.

    The 4th hour explains that NOTHING has been fixed, despite the trillions of dollars thrown at the problem.

    Frankly, I don't think anyone should be allowed to vote in November without proving they watched all four hours.
    Last edited by washparkhorn; 05-02-2012 at 10:38 AM.

  2. #2
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    Oh, she may make an appearance in the program somewhere . . .


  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by washparkhorn View Post
    Oh, she may make an appearance in the program somewhere . . .

    What were you saying about the banks?

  4. #4
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    well, we know all this $#@!.

    our leaders in gov just aren't doing their job. they view their work as just trying to get elected while keeping the big bucks in the room happy. thats it. they don't solve problems. how can you expect Obama, Romney or any of these fools to do what is right?

    our governing mechanisms are broken and our governors are s$#@!.

    most of america couldn't give a $#@!.

    i prob won't watch it. will give me serious anger

  5. #5
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    Watched Part 1 earlier this week. Excellent review and summary of how "credit default swaps" (CDS) were conceived and implemented. Excellent review and summary of how the TBTF firms were essentially gambling on risk and investments.

    Yes, I came away shaking my head and fairly pissed off.

    The "blank check" that Congress gave Paulson to right-the-ship was $#@!ing horrifying/infuriating.

    It is inconceivable to me that there have been no criminal prosecutions as a result of the cluster $#@! in 2008.

  6. #6
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    The 36th minute mark of the 3rd Episode is where the story of Obama selling out to the banks starts (the Tora Bora moment).
    Last edited by washparkhorn; 05-02-2012 at 11:09 AM.

  7. #7
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    40:35 of Episode 3 is where the Federal Reserve's involvement is explained.

  8. #8
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    Watched it, fascinating and infuriating at the same time especially towards the end when they explained that the bank bailout was not the 700 billion number that keeps being stated but was closer to 7.7 trillion. The whole thing was just a big $#@! you to the people from big business and the government

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  10. #10
    Damn, if this isn't justification to continue funding PBS, I don't know what is. Which commercial network would put together an informative, quality, investigative piece like this?

  11. #11
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    I watched the show and was wondering if there would be a post on here. The problem is that it is not simple, easy to digest, and doesn't fit the confirmation bias that people are always looking for.

    The single day of monetary requests and the Fed having $7.8 Trillion in outstanding loans is insane. Half of the national debt is right there.

    Capitalism is dead.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by no_chingas View Post
    Damn, if this isn't justification to continue funding PBS, I don't know what is. Which commercial network would put together an informative, quality, investigative piece like this?
    Frontline is one of the few. If I recall, they did a pretty damning piece on Bill and Hillary and their little Whitewater corruption deal.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by clear lake horn View Post
    Frontline is one of the few. If I recall, they did a pretty damning piece on Bill and Hillary and their little Whitewater corruption deal.
    I'm very cautious with Frontline but they seem to get it right more often than not.

  14. #14
    Haven't seen it yet, but want to. Thanks for links. Only one candidate ran on dealing with the TBTF banks (though he didn't go far enough), and he only lasted through NH.

    It would be a good "Nixon to China" moment for MR, but I ain't holding my breath.

  15. #15
    Thanks for posting, Wash.

  16. #16
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    Blah blah blah, banksters and money, blah blah blah.

    Don't you know that Obama is a muslim kenyan socialist who won't show his birth certificate?

    And don't you know that the Republicans are all racist homophobes?

    Geez, let's get back to the REAL issues, okay?

  17. #17
    Saw all 4 parts. One of the frustrating things about Frontline is that they give you all this information, but don't sum it up or gift wrap a conclusion in the end-even when they have the party under investigation dead to rights (like Tyler pipe).

    I thought they were very kind to Obama last night. Even though they pointed out the mistakes, there were a whole hosts of interviewees that seemed to do nothing but damage control, explain how difficult the decisions were, blame Bush for not being there at the end of his term. They went even so far as to say "they were still trying to find the right keys to the doors at the treasury dept" while this was going on. Lots of excuses.

    Another thing I noticed was how secret the banks still are. Former employees were scared of divulging salary info and the banks reps were very guarded with their answers.

    I was also shocked how stupid government officials in the US and in Europe were about the debt refis they did. You expect this from the uneducated on sub prime home loans. But all we got "its so complicated", "nobody knew", "we were scammed" Tell you what: If you don't understand it how about you don't do it.

    Same old story: Big business will run over you if not regulated-when will we ever learn.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by washparkhorn View Post
    Oh, she may make an appearance in the program somewhere . . .

    What is that from anyway? I'd like to watch more of it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by judge roybeanbag View Post
    What is that from anyway? I'd like to watch more of it.
    The Girl Next Door. Not that I've Fapped to that movie or anything......


    "We're a mother$#@! tripod!"

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nivek View Post
    Capitalism is dead.
    This is the "Capitalism" we've always had. Always.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggy-Z View Post
    Same old story: Big business will run over you if not regulated-when will we ever learn.
    Actually, this is the main problem I had with the piece. Loved all of it except how they kept making sure to hammer over and over again how IF ONLY we'd had better regulations then none of this would have happened!

    Bull$#@!. We had plenty of regulations and regulators and they did jack $#@!. Then, when all the $#@! was hitting the fan, the people responding to the crisis were the people who generated the crisis or who were buddies/coworkers of those who generated it.

    Sorry, but in my mind, Hank Paulson knew exactly what he was doing. That $#@!head saw what was coming, conveniently took the job Dubya offered him, cashed out to the tune of $400 million, and then played the ensuing crisis so that his old firm got bailed out and none of those crooks spent a day in jail.

    It's always the same thing after a major $#@!-storm like this, isn't it? The people at ground zero seem flabbergasted that it ever could have happened. And of course, it wasn't their fault! No one could have seen this coming! All we really needed was more benevolent government to save us! Honest!

    The same exact $#@! was said after 9/11. Which nobody went to jail for or even lost their job over. And we got the TSA, the Patriot Act, a bunch of wars, and a $#@! ton of debt.

  22. #22
    Paulson rejected the job twice, and - voluntarily - signed a document prohibiting him from getting involved with Goldman matters. The secretary of the treasury does not control the department of justice.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escriva View Post
    Paulson rejected the job twice, and - voluntarily - signed a document prohibiting him from getting involved with Goldman matters. The secretary of the treasury does not control the department of justice.
    Yes, because Paulson overseeing the bailout in which Goldman Sachs got their asses saved was definitely Paulson "not getting involved in Goldman matters." And I wasn't suggesting Paulson should have had the ability to criminally charge these people.

    My only point is that government was right in the middle of this mess and regulations didn't have a goddamned thing to do with it one way or the other.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiralOut View Post
    Yes, because Paulson overseeing the bailout in which Goldman Sachs got their asses saved was definitely Paulson "not getting involved in Goldman matters." And I wasn't suggesting Paulson should have had the ability to criminally charge these people.

    My only point is that government was right in the middle of this mess and regulations didn't have a goddamned thing to do with it one way or the other.
    Direct dealings with anything Goldman related were completely prohibited at first; I think he got a waiver later. You said he made sure none of those crooks went to jail (not sure who you think should have gone to jail, or what they should have gone to jail for). It's a stretch of epic proportions that Paulson knew what was coming, and it was all part of a massive conspiracy.

    The problem with the current regulatory regime is that it's by lawyers, for lawyers, and they don't usually understand the industries they regulate.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escriva View Post
    Direct dealings with anything Goldman related were completely prohibited at first; I think he got a waiver later. You said he made sure none of those crooks went to jail (not sure who you think should have gone to jail, or what they should have gone to jail for). It's a stretch of epic proportions that Paulson knew what was coming, and it was all part of a massive conspiracy.

    The problem with the current regulatory regime is that it's by lawyers, for lawyers, and they don't usually understand the industries they regulate.
    THE. LAW. DOES. NOT. APPLY. TO. HIM.

    TurboTimmy was a $#@!ing tax cheat for God's sake, now he's the head of the IRS. Think about it.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexasHammer View Post
    THE. LAW. DOES. NOT. APPLY. TO. HIM.

    TurboTimmy was a $#@!ing tax cheat for God's sake, now he's the head of the IRS. Think about it.
    To what law are you referring?

  27. #27
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    I haven't watched because I have been out of the country the whole time but have read some commentary. I plan to watch when I get back.

    Twitter has been great for responses from the people involved, goolsbee.

    Edit: majority was under Bush with Obama trying to institutue penalties post mortem per gooldbee.
    Last edited by carrera; 05-02-2012 at 09:13 PM.

  28. #28
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    It was an excellent piece. Having little to do with the primary topic, but fascinating nonetheless was the aside of how Obama and McCain came off the campaign trail to discuss the collapse and McCain had nothing to say (even though he was the one that "suspended" his campaign because of the crisis) while Obama owned the whole room.

    Also on PBS, the latest NOVA on the sun ("Secrets of the Sun") is great too

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escriva View Post
    To what law are you referring?
    Signed a form promising not to get involved? Then waived it eh? And you know the Congress is required to pass this thing called a "budget" every year. Nobody holds these people accountable. There is no accountability.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexasHammer View Post
    Signed a form promising not to get involved? Then waived it eh? And you know the Congress is required to pass this thing called a "budget" every year. Nobody holds these people accountable. There is no accountability.
    He wasn't required to stay away from Goldman matters. He voluntarily did so. He eventually was persuaded to get it waived, because he was the Secretary of the Treasury and all, and it became impossible to completely ignore Goldman. What law do you think he broke? "We're really pissed" isn't a reason to put people in jail.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escriva View Post
    He wasn't required to stay away from Goldman matters. He voluntarily did so. He eventually was persuaded to get it waived, because he was the Secretary of the Treasury and all, and it became impossible to completely ignore Goldman. What law do you think he broke? "We're really pissed" isn't a reason to put people in jail.
    You know in Europe, they have (or had?) explicit provisions banning bailouts. Did it matter? Of course not.

    The bailouts in the US were not illegal. Which does nothing to change their essential character, which is that of theft.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexasHammer View Post
    You know in Europe, they have (or had?) explicit provisions banning bailouts. Did it matter? Of course not.

    The bailouts in the US were not illegal. Which does nothing to change their essential character, which is that of theft.
    That could be said about how these particular bailouts were structured (few required management changes; equity holders weren't wiped out, etc). Bailouts generally are as American as apple pie.

    Still not quite sure who should go to jail, why, or how any of this shows Paulson was "above the law."

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escriva View Post

    Still not quite sure who should go to jail, why


    and the rest of America is still trying to figure why we bailed them out, they should have failed and gone under

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escriva View Post
    Still not quite sure who should go to jail, why, or how any of this shows Paulson was "above the law."
    Debtor's prison.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiralOut View Post
    Actually, this is the main problem I had with the piece. Loved all of it except how they kept making sure to hammer over and over again how IF ONLY we'd had better regulations then none of this would have happened!

    Bull$#@!. We had plenty of regulations and regulators and they did jack $#@!. Then, when all the $#@! was hitting the fan, the people responding to the crisis were the people who generated the crisis or who were buddies/coworkers of those who generated it.

    Sorry, but in my mind, Hank Paulson knew exactly what he was doing. That $#@!head saw what was coming, conveniently took the job Dubya offered him, cashed out to the tune of $400 million, and then played the ensuing crisis so that his old firm got bailed out and none of those crooks spent a day in jail.

    It's always the same thing after a major $#@!-storm like this, isn't it? The people at ground zero seem flabbergasted that it ever could have happened. And of course, it wasn't their fault! No one could have seen this coming! All we really needed was more benevolent government to save us! Honest!

    The same exact $#@! was said after 9/11. Which nobody went to jail for or even lost their job over. And we got the TSA, the Patriot Act, a bunch of wars, and a $#@! ton of debt.

    9/11 and Paulson's shenanigans aside, I don't see how anyone can argue that the repeal of Glass-Stegal (a regulation) was not a primary contributing factor. Nor could we rely on any of these firms to do the right thing, or not even the right thing, just not be money grubbing whores.

    You can dress the whole thing up with complicated financing and investing instruments, throw some highly educated professionals in $3,000 suits, expensive dinners, and staggering amounts of capital, but in the end, these guys are no better than car salesmen trying to $#@! you out of your money. Why? All these transactions were not transparent and still are not and there was no prohibition against it.

    The history of big business in the US is littered with bad behavior and exploitation. Labor abuses, toxic waste dumping, bribery, murder for hire, election rigging, you name it. The point is, before you repeal something like Glass-Stegal, you better make dam sure of the consequences, because these guys are going to ride it into the ground.

    I am normally a "let the free market figure it out" kind of guy. But this market is not "free", it has been gamed for the get go. Also, letting the market figure it out, takes time and cash flow, and unless you are a big bank, you don't get the immediate cash to figure it out. Time and cash flow eventually sorted out the S & L crises, but it took ten freaking years to do so. And lest we forget, death is also a timing issue.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Brisketexan View Post
    Blah blah blah, banksters and money, blah blah blah.

    Don't you know that Obama is a muslim kenyan socialist who won't show his birth certificate?

    And don't you know that the Republicans are all racist homophobes?

    Geez, let's get back to the REAL issues, okay?

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Escriva View Post
    Still not quite sure who should go to jail, why, or how any of this shows Paulson was "above the law."
    Everyone involved in setting up and running MERS for one.

  38. #38
    Dark and Stormy washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escriva View Post
    Still not quite sure who should go to jail
    They won't. We prosecuted hundreds in the S&L crisis. This time around, the handwriting was on the wall and a special dispensation was secured.

    As the financial storm brewed in the summer of 2008 and institutions feared for their survival, a bit of good news bubbled through large banks and the law firms that defend them.

    Federal prosecutors officially adopted new guidelines about charging corporations with crimes — a softer approach that, longtime white-collar lawyers and former federal prosecutors say, helps explain the dearth of criminal cases despite a raft of inquiries into the financial crisis.

    Though little noticed outside legal circles, the guidelines were welcomed by firms representing banks. The Justice Department’s directive, involving a process known as deferred prosecutions, signaled “an important step away from the more aggressive prosecutorial practices seen in some cases under their predecessors,” Sullivan & Cromwell, a prominent Wall Street law firm, told clients in a memo that September.

    The guidelines left open a possibility other than guilty or not guilty, giving leniency often if companies investigated and reported their own wrongdoing. In return, the government could enter into agreements to delay or cancel the prosecution if the companies promised to change their behavior.

    But this approach, critics maintain, runs the risk of letting companies off too easily.

    “If you do not punish crimes, there’s really no reason they won’t happen again,” said Mary Ramirez, a professor at Washburn University School of Law and a former assistant United States attorney. “I worry and so do a lot of economists that we have created no disincentives for committing fraud or white-collar crime, in particular in the financial space.”

    While “deferred prosecution agreements” were used before the financial crisis, the Justice Department made them an official alternative in 2008, according to the Sullivan & Cromwell note.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/08/bu...pagewanted=all

    It's good to be the King.

  39. #39
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    Good argument by William K. Black on why Geithner is wrong on many issues - including the decision not to prosecute and why there was fraud.

    http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2...html#more-2082

    Geithner is not simply wrong about fraud playing no significant role in prior crises. His senior staff is also wrong, or unwilling to speak truth to power. Geithner is not slightly wrong, he is grotesquely wrong. The fact that he is so wrong a quarter-century after the facts on fraud were made public would be disturbing for any official, but for the U.S. Treasury Secretary who has just seen the global economy crushed by an orgy of accounting control fraud by the world’s most elite bankers it is terrifying.

  40. #40
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    54:54 of Part 3 explains how we still live with the problems and the gravity of the issues.

    It's not over.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escriva View Post
    Still not quite sure who should go to jail
    Quote Originally Posted by washparkhorn View Post
    They won't. We prosecuted hundreds in the S&L crisis. This time around, the handwriting was on the wall and a special dispensation was secured.
    You're implying they should go to jail but they won't. Escriva's asking why they should go to jail and nobody's answered him yet.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggy-Z View Post
    9/11 and Paulson's shenanigans aside, I don't see how anyone can argue that the repeal of Glass-Stegal (a regulation) was not a primary contributing factor. Nor could we rely on any of these firms to do the right thing, or not even the right thing, just not be money grubbing whores.

    You can dress the whole thing up with complicated financing and investing instruments, throw some highly educated professionals in $3,000 suits, expensive dinners, and staggering amounts of capital, but in the end, these guys are no better than car salesmen trying to $#@! you out of your money. Why? All these transactions were not transparent and still are not and there was no prohibition against it.

    The history of big business in the US is littered with bad behavior and exploitation. Labor abuses, toxic waste dumping, bribery, murder for hire, election rigging, you name it. The point is, before you repeal something like Glass-Stegal, you better make dam sure of the consequences, because these guys are going to ride it into the ground.

    I am normally a "let the free market figure it out" kind of guy. But this market is not "free", it has been gamed for the get go. Also, letting the market figure it out, takes time and cash flow, and unless you are a big bank, you don't get the immediate cash to figure it out. Time and cash flow eventually sorted out the S & L crises, but it took ten freaking years to do so. And lest we forget, death is also a timing issue.
    I think I didn't explain my point well enough, so let me try again.

    People in business, like in all of life, are greedy and self-serving. This is an inescapable fact. If someone has the chance to make an extra buck dishonestly they're going to do it. It's even worse when the people are ultra-smart and know they figure out ways to game the system. They're going to cheat. Plain and simple.

    So, we know people are going to be dishonest, cook the books, lie, cheat, steal, or whatever to earn an extra buck. So the question then becomes, is there any way to prevent this? Can we stop people from being human and taking shortcuts and $#@!ing others over for their own personal gain? No. It's impossible to stop it completely. So, then the question becomes what can we do to slow it down and get the best system possible to prevent the highest number of people/institutions from screwing others over.

    On the one hand you have the "more government intervention! more regulations!" crowd. Despite the myriad regulations and regulators we already have, they think that if we just add a few more then everything will be solved. Sorry, but I don't see how any rational thinking person can buy into that. Hell, the people in the videos there were basically saying the regulators didn't matter. That the super smart Wall Street types would find a way around them. That one Senator or whatever was talking about how if you leave the tiniest loophole, those folks will find a way to use it. Of course, this assumes that you're actually getting regulations and regulators with some teeth which will actually be somewhat effective, if not perfect. And, of course, that never $#@!ing happens because all regulations/regulators come out of Washington, which is rife with corruption. The Wall Street types spend hundreds of millions of dollars on lobbyists and you get piss-poor bull$#@! like the Dodd-Frank Act which does nothing to curb any foul behavior.

    On the other hand, you can step back and let the market regulate itself for the most part. Yes, these people will cheat. Yes, they'll try $#@!ing people over. However, they won't have any sort of safety net when their schemes ultimately $#@! up. Their business will be liquidated, they'll be prosecuted, and people will be more wary of who they give their money to and how that money is handled.

    Bernie Madoff is a great example. Bernie did some $#@!ed up $#@!. He stole a lot of people's money. However, Bernie wasn't backed by Uncle Sam. So, Bernie's $#@! got liquidated and Bernie went to jail and the investors that got ripped off learned a valuable lesson in diversifying their portfolios. Compare that with the $#@! that went down with the major investment banks. They knew what they were doing was wrong and wasn't going to last. However, they knew that there was no $#@!ing way their buddies in Washington were going to let them burn for it. So, they get bailed out with taxpayer money and don't spend even a single solitary day in jail. It's like if I was going to go gambling in Vegas. I sure as hell wouldn't take my entire life savings to the roulette table and put it all on black. But if a buddy offers me HIS entire life savings and wishes me well, $#@! yeah. Everything on black. /noracist

    Trying to regulate business is a lot like trying to enforce drug laws. You spend a lot of money, you waste a lot of time, you ruin a bunch of people's lives, and absolutely nothing gets accomplished. Will things be hunky-dory great in an almost completely free market? Will people magically stop trying to $#@! each other over and be super greedy $#@!s? Of course not. Still, in a truly free market they have nowhere to run and hide. The market can and will push cheating sorry $#@!s out the door and make room for more efficient and well run businesses. Instead of having Goldman Sachs and the rest still around, making more money than ever, and ripe to commit their next nasty surprise for the American people, they'd all be out of a job and $#@!s like Lloyd Blankfein would be locked up.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not My Real Name View Post
    You're implying they should go to jail but they won't. Escriva's asking why they should go to jail and nobody's answered him yet.
    Corzine stole a billion dollars. Is that not reason enough? I personally knew three people who went to jail after the 2001 corporate fraud situation. There are hundreds of people here who actively committed securities fraud. It's been confirmed repeatedly, even in congressional testimony.

    The proof has been offered here thousands of times. Wake the $#@! up.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexasHammer View Post
    Corzine stole a billion dollars. Is that not reason enough? I personally knew three people who went to jail after the 2001 corporate fraud situation. There are hundreds of people here who actively committed securities fraud. It's been confirmed repeatedly, even in congressional testimony.

    The proof has been offered here thousands of times. Wake the $#@! up.
    Again, "I'm really pissed!" isn't a criminal offense. The Corzine stuff was way more recent than any of the other stuff being talked about, and the investigation is still ongoing. Forming lynch mobs should be viewed as a bad thing. And making bad business decisions isn't a crime.

  45. #45
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    No, but violating the securities and exchange acts of 1933 and 1934 are. It is securities fraud. They filed fraudulent S-1's. That is a crime. It is obviously a crime. It is well known. That you have no knowledge of it is uphauling. Go watch that Oscar winning movie about it.

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexasHammer View Post
    No, but violating the securities and exchange acts of 1933 and 1934 are. It is securities fraud. They filed fraudulent S-1's. That is a crime. It is obviously a crime. It is well known. That you have no knowledge of it is uphauling. Go watch that Oscar winning movie about it.
    Have no knowledge of what? Aside from Corzine, you haven't accused anyone specific of anything. I'm not going to get pissed at "them" just because you use profanity .

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiralOut View Post
    Trying to regulate business is a lot like trying to enforce drug laws. You spend a lot of money, you waste a lot of time, you ruin a bunch of people's lives, and absolutely nothing gets accomplished.
    I dunno, we were pretty good at regulating Wall Street from WW2 to 1978 or so when Carter started the deregulation craze.

  48. #48
    Dark and Stormy washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. washparkhorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escriva View Post
    And making bad business decisions isn't a crime.
    Bad business decisions are not crimes, unless they involve fraud money-laundering, perjury, and racketeering - then we are talking about potential felonies.

    Black would have had 1000's charged by now. The real question is why did that did not happen.

    A good summary from the Elite's paper of record on why no prosecutions - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/bu...pagewanted=all

  49. #49
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    Large layoffs loom on Wall Street

    http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/...t-layoffs-21k/

    Full text follows:

    Large layoffs loom on Wall Street
    By Stephen Gandel, senior editor April 30, 2012: 6:00 AM ET

    Latest wave of financial industry cuts could eliminate 21,000 jobs, rivaling the financial crisis.

    FORTUNE --Perhaps the only thing more broken than Wall Street's business model is its staffing strategy.
    After adding thousands bankers in the past two years, financial firms again appear to be on the verge of cutting that many positions and then some. Consultants and Wall Street recruiters say banks could eliminate nearly 21,000 jobs from their securities divisions in New York alone. Worldwide cuts could be even larger. Recruiters say big banks are in the process of finalizing their downsizing plans, and that layoffs could start soon.
    The latest round of job cuts could rival those that happened during the financial crisis. Back then, which was less than four years ago, Wall Street eliminated 28,000 positions. But that round of downsizing included the collapse of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, and the biggest crisis in the financial markets since the Great Depression. By comparison, the stock market is up this year, and just last week banks reported better than expected earnings for the first quarter. What's more, at the same time large firms are firing, many smaller investment banks have been staffing up. As a result, overall employment on Wall Street might not drop as much as it did after the financial crisis.
    "Hiring is going on, it's just not by the big banks," says a top Wall Street recruiter Gary Goldstein, who runs Whitney Partners.
    Nonetheless, consultants say the big Wall Street firms are coming to the conclusion that they have more workers than they need. Last week, The Boston Consulting Group released a report that predicted banks would eliminate 12% of their workforce in the "short-term." Recruiters say those numbers sound similar to what they are hearing from the large firms.
    "The estimate is possibly low," says veteran financial industry recruiter Steve Potter at Odgers Berndtson. Potter says not only are the firms competing for few deals, but with their clients. More and more large firms are adding investment bankers to their staffs to save on Wall Street fees. "Large layoffs are a virtual certainty."
    Perhaps the biggest problem at the banks is that they didn't cut enough jobs last time around. Mergers and acquisition activity also has not bounced back as expected, leaving a number of high paid bankers idle. What's more, new regulations appear to already be significantly curtailing the banks' trading operations. Also weighing on the banks is the fact that debt watchers Moody's and Standard & Poors say they are likely to soon downgrade the bond ratings of the firms. The nation's five largest banks have estimated that the downgrades could cost them $22 billion in additional costs or collateral requirements.
    "There hasn't been enough action on the cost front to keep up with the revenue short falls," says Chandy Chandrashekhar, a partner at BCG who helped to produce the recent report. And unlike other rounds of layoffs, Chandrashekhar says many of the people who lose their jobs this time around could be senior bankers. For those that remain, compensation is likely to be down this year as well. In all, BCG expects Wall Street compensation expenditures to drop by as much as 30%. "Banks need to revisit whether they need all of their management layers."
    Recruiters say one of the firms likely to cut the most is Credit Suisse. The firm's investment banking division has struggled recently. Last year, Credit Suisse said that it plans to eliminate 3,500 jobs, across the whole bank, not just its Wall Street business. About 2,000 of those job cuts have already been completed. Sources say a majority of the remaining cuts will come from the firm's investment bank, and that the bank may end up cutting more workers than earlier announced. Credit Suisse declined to comment.
    Other firms that sources say are likely to make deep job cuts in their investment banking divisions are Bank of America, which bought Merrill Lynch during the financial crisis, and Barclays, which acquired the U.S. investment banking division of Lehman Brothers out of bankruptcy. But recruiters say that all of the big banks, including Goldman Sachs, appear to be on the verge of making cutbacks.
    "Banks haven't come up with a model that makes up the profits they used to get from proprietary trading, CDOs and other structure deals they used to do," says Goldstein. "I have heard about a lot of people who didn't get the promotions they were expecting. That's usually a sign that banks are getting ready to get rid of people."
    Last edited by vox; 05-04-2012 at 12:34 AM.

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