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Thread: Scipio Tex on Harsin

  1. #1
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    Scipio Tex on Harsin


  2. #2
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    Was just about to say how depressed I was/am after reading this

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    sigh

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    welp, I want to shoot myself.

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  6. #6
    Fascinating. Sounds like corporate America. I can very much relate to the issues of trying to change a corporate culture. And Mack sounds like any number of clueless managing directors I have encountered.

  7. #7
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    This is a perfect summation of our program:

    "Harsin thinks football is fun when you win all of the games and achieve tangible things. Real camaraderie and chemistry come from that. Shared achievement. The Texas program is run in way that suggests that fun and chemistry is created by having constant guests, speakers, enrichment, mandatory chants and displays of emotion, themes, forced celebration, and regimented spontaneity. Texas football has a fake culture of fun which, once the wins go away, is just a hollow pantomime. Upperclassmen - ostensible leaders - are burned out and roll their eyes. Genuine emotion is suppressed in the locker room and on the practice field and when it does come out, it's usually boiling over, ugly and misplaced."

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by The512 View Post
    This is a perfect summation of our program:

    "Harsin thinks football is fun when you win all of the games and achieve tangible things. Real camaraderie and chemistry come from that. Shared achievement. The Texas program is run in way that suggests that fun and chemistry is created by having constant guests, speakers, enrichment, mandatory chants and displays of emotion, themes, forced celebration, and regimented spontaneity. Texas football has a fake culture of fun which, once the wins go away, is just a hollow pantomime. Upperclassmen - ostensible leaders - are burned out and roll their eyes. Genuine emotion is suppressed in the locker room and on the practice field and when it does come out, it's usually boiling over, ugly and misplaced."
    So the opposite of Pete Carroll?

  9. #9
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    Great piece. Depressing.

  10. #10
    From what I know, he is reaching on the issues between Harsin and the staff. I think he put something out there yesterday and had trouble saying anything of substance in this piece to expound on it. Overall, Harsin is quiet and a football intellectual that is pretty inclusive of ideas and rarely rubs people the wrong way. If it is just a get out of the way of the success of others type of thing, then I buy it. But I don't think anyone was happy to see him go. Again, he had similar issues that Wyatt and Applewhite had with offers going out on offense that were not on their initial evaluation lists. Mack truly does take more from HS coaches and outsiders than his own staff on offense. It is really sad.

    Other than that, another great article.

  11. #11
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    Nailed it. $#@!.

  12. #12
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    Nailed it.

  13. #13
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    God Damn!

  14. #14
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    $#@! Mack Brown with a baseball bat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. #15
    The culture at Texas is the same one that has plagued the Dallas cowboys since 1995. There is no discipline, the country club lifestyle reigns supreme.

  16. #16
    Shaggy OOTP Commissioner Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Huckleberry's Avatar
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    I've heard about the friction between Harsin and others from other people as well. I have every reason to believe it's true and I think Scipio did a good job trying to flesh out what it was about.

  17. #17
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    No $#@!.
    This place is $#@!ed up?
    Who woulda thunk it?

  18. #18
    This $#@!ing sucks. I wish Harsin the best. He doesn't deserve this $#@!. As for Major, with any luck, he's just as fed up but wants to change the program from the inside since he has a bigger emotional stake in the program than Harsin did. If Mack hasn't gotten to him, that is.

  19. #19
    I just don't think it is friction. Most staffs have the dynamic he is talking about amongst coaches. It is only an issue at Texas. Applewhite had friction at Alabama. Like Scipio mentioned, it is how Saban coaches. I applaud Applewhite for wanting to be the man and take more initiative in the offense. No one wants a bunch of McWhoters and Davises that just want to collect a paycheck. If there is open discussion, even heated, then it is typically healthy on a staff.

  20. #20
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    I emailed that article to a family friend. he just responded with " all im saying is Texas would be a lot better off if Mack took control instead of giving his DC and OC so much freedom to do whatever they want." He has a buddy that is a high school coach and apparently this buddy told him that Mack was giving Harsin and Diaz too much freedom on offense and defense. He believes said buddy because he is in constant contact with college coaches trying to get high school players recruited. This coaching buddy sounds like an idiot.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by spit and tears View Post
    Fascinating. Sounds like corporate America. I can very much relate to the issues of trying to change a corporate culture. And Mack sounds like any number of clueless managing directors I have encountered.
    This. This story is played out in corporate America day after day. Anyone who has had a boss or CEO stand up on the podium and spew forth with a bunch of bull$#@!, ignoring reality, can now understand completely what is happening in the UT program. There are two types of leaders in the world who have achieved some level of success. The first type is truly talented, makes great decisions, and personally leads their team to success. The second type, the Mack brown type, inherits a good situation, manages to surround himself with good talent, and then achieves success. The problem with the type 2 leader is that when things start to go wrong ( and in any business they will eventually go wrong) they are incapable of actually turning things around because they don't have the talent themselves and because of that, they eventually can't get talented people to stay or join the team. We r f'd until Mack is gone.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by BevoTX View Post
    I emailed that article to a family friend. he just responded with " all im saying is Texas would be a lot better off if Mack took control instead of giving his DC and OC so much freedom to do whatever they want." He has a buddy that is a high school coach and apparently this buddy told him that Mack was giving Harsin and Diaz too much freedom on offense and defense. He believes said buddy because he is in constant contact with college coaches trying to get high school players recruited. This coaching buddy sounds like an idiot.
    I... just... what?

  23. #23
    This $#@! starts at the top. Dodds. F him and his damn money. That is all that dip$#@! cares about.

  24. #24
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Huckleberry View Post
    I've heard about the friction between Harsin and others from other people as well. I have every reason to believe it's true and I think Scipio did a good job trying to flesh out what it was about.
    Yeah $#@! happens when you have a boat-rocker surrounded by a dozen yes men.

  26. #26
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    "hollow pantomime"...goodness gracious, that is a withering summary.

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  28. #28
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    $#@! Mack Brown with a rusted cooking spoon.

  29. #29
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    Mack is the problem. Mack is the problem. Mack is the problem.

    It can't be stated enough. The insular environment Mack and Deloss have created of yes men and sycophants is going to destroy this program. I have said on here multiple times that I think there is not a clamoring for change at the highest levels of Texas because Mack has given these egomaniacal douchebags exactly what they want: unprecedented access to the program. Maybe someone who knows better can tell me but wasn't lack of access a reason the boosters all hated Mackovic? He wouldn't kiss their asses. Mack will and does. He makes them feel special and important. He lets them host the players at their ranches and address the team on an eye-rolling, it's time to win rah rah bull$#@! waste of time. He takes their phone calls. He lets them into closed practices. They want to maintain that access as much as Mack wants to maintain the status quo. They are the problem too because Mack's allowed them to be bribed when unfettered access.

    This program needs the cleansing fire taken to it in the worst way.

  30. #30
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    Son of bitch. $#@!.

  31. #31
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    Someone forward this to Dodds and Powers.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdmost View Post
    Mack is the problem. Mack is the problem. Mack is the problem.
    DeLoss is actually the problem, as he can do something about Mack, whose time has CLEARLY passed.

  33. #33
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    i just really want to root for Applewhite. dammit.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silky Johnson View Post
    Yeah $#@! happens when you have a boat-rocker surrounded by a dozen yes men.
    Exactly. I've been in this position before. It's not fun. Until you leave and watch the whole thing play out exactly how you thought it would. That part is fun, and satisfying. I get the sense that Coach Harsin will experience that satisfaction in the not-too-distant future.

  35. #35
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    There is still dead weight on the football staff and support staff. When you constantly create work-arounds for that dead weight, you send a message to other staff members and players that you're not about optimizing. The players realize which coaches know their stuff. And which support people are unproductive - some of them at practice every day.
    This sounds like my current company where low performers are never held accountable and incompetence promoted and celebrated. Complain? You are labled as not "rowing in the same direction" and a non-team player. Nice to see the same mentality is alive and well under Mack's regime.

  36. #36
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    Ive never sighed so much in one $#@!ing season.

  37. #37
    This board is going to meltdown once it comes to the realization Applewhite is a Mack guy.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by The512 View Post
    DeLoss is actually the problem, as he can do something about Mack, whose time has CLEARLY passed.
    Agreed, but the absolute LAST thing he wants to do is get up off his Barton Creek CC ass and go beat the bushes for a fire breathing coach. That would require him to miss a week of Matlock reruns. Anyway, does anyone thing that if he actually took it upon himself to find a new coach he could find the right one. A complete house cleaning is indeed in order. Bill Powers and whomever write the checks need to make finding a shrewd, driven, results-oriented AD their number one priority.

  39. #39
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    I'm may be the only one here that things scipio is quite likely full of $#@! and making $#@! up as he goes along.

  40. #40
    Scipio Tex:
    "What is clear to me is that Bryan Harsin was brought to Austin to install an offense. He realized quickly that what Texas really needed was to install a different culture. And that his offense could never be optimized without it. The best way to create a football culture is to be in charge of it. So he left for the first job where he could do just that.

    When Muschamp left in 2010 for Florida, it didn't take long for Bellmont and some of Mack's camp followers to begin a smear campaign against him to validate UT sticking with Brown. Oddly, some Texas sites and fans carried water for that campaign, despite its illogic.

    They should think twice about doing it again."

    Culture change. Only happens with change at the top, and it's time.

  41. #41
    asshat mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? mdmost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Bang View Post
    I'm may be the only one here that things scipio is quite likely full of $#@! and making $#@! up as he goes along.
    I tend to believe articles like these when I can look at the evidence of the two most ambitious guys in our program under Mack both left in under 3 years of getting here. Both of these guys were described as tough, no non-sense coaches who had some fire to them. One left for about as good an opportunity as there is. The other left it seems on the first train he could jump onto to get out of Austin. Now contrast that with Greg Davis and others who stayed in the Texas program until they were forced out. It all starts at the top. It won't change until the persons at the top are gone

  42. #42
    asshat 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five is a rep whore. 4th&Five's Avatar
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    This $#@!ing blows. Easy to see why Muschamp left. He was willing to deal with this culture when the head job was in his sights. As soon as that was delayed he was $#@!ing gone. For an obviously much better job but still.

  43. #43
    asshat Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang Shaggy Gold Club Gil Bang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdmost View Post
    I tend to believe articles like these when I can look at the evidence of the two most ambitious guys in our program under Mack both left in under 3 years of getting here. Both of these guys were described as tough, no non-sense coaches who had some fire to them. One left for about as good an opportunity as there is. The other left it seems on the first train he could jump onto to get out of Austin. Now contrast that with Greg Davis and others who stayed in the Texas program until they were forced out. It all starts at the top. It won't change until the persons at the top are gone
    OK. Reasonable people can disagree...I never thought of Harsin as "tough" even for a second.

  44. #44
    NAACP National Champ Snacks GORN Snacks GORN Snacks GORN Snacks GORN Snacks GORN Snacks GORN Snacks GORN Snacks GORN Snacks GORN Snacks GORN Snacks GORN Snacks's Avatar
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    Whatever. Figure out a way to win.

  45. #45
    we get the football team that we deserve. we get the athletic program that we deserve.

    how much longer will you keep going to games, watching games on tv, buying ut apparel, reading about ut athletics on local and national news and sports sites, etc? all those things re-affirm to the $#@!s in bellmont who don't give a flying $#@! about you, the average fan, that they can do anything they want and you'll freely eat the steaming pile of $#@! they serve you for dinner.

    when are you going to show the smug $#@!s that you won't eat their $#@! sandwich anymore?

    as much as it hurts and as hard to as it's been to do, i've stopped watching anything UT since the kansas game. i will not attend or watch the bowl game. i will not attend or watch a basketball or baseball game this year. it hurts but i haven't watched our stellar volleyball team even thought this may finally be the year. i'm doing what i can to send a message to bellmont that i won't be an active party to the mediocrity that they champion.

    $#@! deloss and the other dude plonsky. deloss thinks that he can do nothing until he retires and drive the athletics program into a deeper $#@!hole.

    and $#@! the donors who willingly allow this $#@! to go on.

    and lastly, $#@! mack brown for everything.

  46. #46
    asshat TULAUS grows his own roses TULAUS grows his own roses TULAUS grows his own roses TULAUS grows his own roses TULAUS grows his own roses TULAUS grows his own roses TULAUS grows his own roses TULAUS grows his own roses TULAUS grows his own roses TULAUS grows his own roses TULAUS grows his own roses
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    I don't see how people can quit Texas Football any more than they could quit [insert beyond hot chick here]. If you have Texas Football in your blood, you can't quit it. It will drive you to crazy to hell but you can't quit it.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Bang View Post
    I'm may be the only one here that things scipio is quite likely full of $#@! and making $#@! up as he goes along.
    I'm right there with you. None of his "pieces"'really have the feel of coming from someone with intimate knowledge of the program. At least he doesn't have $#@!ing quotation marks around big chunks of his speculations like Jesus shuttlesworth.

  48. #48
    dipshit charlemagne is probably perfectly normal.  Probably. Maybe. Who cares?
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    This season I was incredibly frustrated with removing Ash and installing Case when Ash seemed to be having an off game. Ash had proven himself up to the point when he was removed in the Kansas game, and what an embarrassment. I could never put my finger on why you would do something like that. You never see other guys pulled who are allegedly the 'starter' if they have had some errant passes, misjudging of the defense, etc. Alabama doesn't remove their QB, and his stats were much worse than Ash's at that point. Shaub doesn't get pulled (though maybe he should). Flacco doesn't get pulled. Big Ben doesn't get pulled (unless he's raping chicks in night clubs).

    I could never put my finger on why that would be, until I read the article by Scipio:

    - This part is my surmise based on a couple of stories I won't relate. Harsin fundamentally believes in committing to players and letting them grow into the job. But he will criticize and coach every minute detail of play. He is never off of their asses, but he won't take their job until it's clear that their growth is maxed or there's a better option. Mack is the exact opposite. He pumps the player up, focuses on generalities ("everyone just beat the guy in front of you, OK?), but if the player fails, after a loss, you make a quick change. If the player plays unacceptably during a win, that's OK. Because Texas won. There's an irreconcilable tension there. And it drove the process-focused, long term program-minded Harsin nuts. Brown is coaching for today.

    The first thing I thought of was David Ash. Then I thought, maybe this explains DJ. Maybe Daje. What a thought: build up players to no end, then they fail, and pull the freaking rug out from under them. Wrong. That is not how you handle people. You coach, you coach, you yell, you coach, you spit. When they fail, you put your hand out, and say "Don't do that again. Here's how you screwed up...get better, I know you are and can be."

    I'm no football coach, but I'd imagine it's not altogether different than being a father. Maybe Mack is too worried about being a mother. Maybe Harsin wanted his men to be the best and he was tired of Sallie's cookies and Mack's fat ass coddling young men. Who knows, but I wish him the best.
    Last edited by charlemagne; 12-12-2012 at 09:23 PM.

  49. #49
    asshat EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird is a rep whore. EarlyBird's Avatar
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    In hindsight I now see that Mack served his purpose after 4 years on the job. He's all frosting, no cake. He'd be great at marketing, but his coaching sucks. He's not really a football guy.
    And now he's going to $#@! up his credibility so bad that people will continue laughing at him, even when he's through playing HC.

  50. #50
    bunghole CRZYHORN is probably perfectly normal.  Probably. Maybe. Who cares? CRZYHORN is probably perfectly normal.  Probably. Maybe. Who cares? CRZYHORN is probably perfectly normal.  Probably. Maybe. Who cares? CRZYHORN is probably perfectly normal.  Probably. Maybe. Who cares? CRZYHORN is probably perfectly normal.  Probably. Maybe. Who cares? CRZYHORN is probably perfectly normal.  Probably. Maybe. Who cares? CRZYHORN is probably perfectly normal.  Probably. Maybe. Who cares? CRZYHORN's Avatar
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    When deloss leaves, it changes. This is about money. And until the captains of the ship change the way they see money, we will continue to have this sort of environment.

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