advice for craps first-timer?

[slorch]

Table minimums...

Played L'Auberge 2 Sundays ago on a $15 table.

Isle will be $10-$15 when slow.

haven't been to Coushatta in a long, long time...but they would probably have the lowest minimums.

[WBT]

I was at Coushatta last Sunday and they had two $5 tables and two $10. I think even on Saturdays they usually have at least one $5 table going but it might be quite a wait to get on it.

[HenryGandorf]

yeah, that's the huge advantage to being in vegas, craps-wise. if the tables are ice cold, people leave them. on the boats, even the cold tables have people waiting in lines to get on them.

[BritishHorn]

play high limit dont pass.

[pray4mojo]

I'm an amateur craps player, so I've been fooling around with HG's strategy at crapsage.com. Great strategy for the enjoyment and stretching your bankroll at a table.

However, I really feel like any free table game site (be it cards, dice, whatever), adjusts the AI to the player's favor. I've noticed this for any free Hold 'em sites as well, especially when those free sites have links to the standard pay casino websites. I'm sure they get you thinking that you have it "all figured out" then wait for you to blow junior's college fund in three hours tying to outwit Sergei and Boris on the other end of the interweb.

necroquote, but while practicing HG's method, bovada's AI is intent on proving to me that craps is not a good way to make money. I won't be deterred.

[slorch]

necroquote, but while practicing HG's method, bovada's AI is intent on proving to me that craps is not a good way to make money. I won't be deterred.

the bovada site does not have random rolls...or at least it doesn't "feel" right.

[pray4mojo]

the bovada site does not have random rolls...or at least it doesn't "feel" right.

yeah, lots and lots of 7's just as the stacks get bumped to the next level. no big deal, it's just practice, but I dropped 350 pretty quick playing 5 min.

[HenryGandorf]

on a lot of the simulation sites, no system works.

i like crapdice.com

[HeHateMe]

Read through the first two pages and want to chime in. I started playing craps when I was 16 when my old man snuck me on to a cruise ship casino to teach me. Been hooked ever since. A few years ago, after 3 losing trips in a row to vegas, I started to alter the way that I play. My system is similar to HG's, in that I like to play off of house money, only I do it in a slightly different way. Assume 1 unit is equal to table min.

I start with 2.5 units on 3 "inside numbers" after the point is established. After one bet hits I make them look like one unit on the same numbers. Thus exposing more money initially but getting to house money faster.

For a $10 table with a point on the 8, I'll bet $80 inside.(25-30-25) After one of my numbers hits, I collect $35 and reduce my bets to $32 (10-12-10) inside. Now I'm protected. Now I press 50% of my winnings on every point that is hit. I go from 10 to 15 to 25 to 40..... Collect a little, press a little.

Now the part that takes discipline. The average shooter rolls the dice 6 times (give or take) before they 7 out. After the shooters 7th roll, I turn all of my place bets OFF and watch. I now wait for the shooter to either hit their point and establish another number or 7 out and end the roll. The discipline comes in when you see others collecting while you are only watching them. But, when the 8th roll is a seven you look really smart. This has saved me much more than it has cost me. And, now I get to enjoy the next shooter on "house money" all while pressing my bets up.

I rarely shoot the dice. (making the pass line bet throws everything off, and usually leave my money exposed too long) If you do shoot, pick up the book on dice setting by Sharpshooter, and learn to do it right. Also make a $1 any bet for every $10 you have on the line.

I dont bet on jackasses who throw the dice like a $#@!ing maniac. I just wait it out or take a piss.

I dont bet the "dont", but I dont care if someone else does.

I dont bet on $#@!ers who just threw a "point seven" on their last roll, just a superstition.

I do tip the dealers! (Important when you're drinking and turning your bets off and on...they will remind me to turn them back on if they like me)

And there is no fool-proof way to win at craps, this has just worked best for me...it can go sideways in a hurry, but find the right table and you can go an hour without touching your bankroll.

[slorch]

I do tip the dealers! (Important when you're drinking and turning your bets off and on...they will remind me to turn them back on if they like me)
.

definitely a legit reason, but made me LOL when I read it, too!

[HenryGandorf]

yeah, tipping varies for me from time to time. i either:

-tip here and there, most often by just making a bet for them
-tip after a big roller, which i do the most often
-tip after a session, which i do when i win, but don't when i lose unless it's super convenient with my remaining chips (1 quarter and 9 singles)

when you first walk up to a craps table, you feel like it's you against them. if/when you make friends with the dealers, you feel like it's them and you against the casino or the moron beginners. tipping and playing smart are two ways to get the dealers on your side.

[HeHateMe]

^ agreed knowing what you are doing, knowing payouts, and anticipating change to drop to make payouts smooth go along way with dealers....also pointing out half naked skanks gets you some love.

[utflipmode]

You have the system down, basically. Make sure you collect twice before you start pressing, thus only being down a couple of bucks while the rest of the money on the table is "house money."

When a point is made, the place bets are "off" when a shooter is coming out (So a 2, 3, or 12 doesn't affect the place bets). If you are on all the numbers but six (Because six was the point) and now the shooter's point is an 8, you just move the money from the 8 to the now-vacant 6. The dealers will again anticipate that you want to do this and will adjust the value accordingly if you're going from like an 8 to a 10.

maybe i'm missing something... but if you've got place bets on the inside, the point hits, and then the shooter comes out with 7 or 11, doesn't it wipe you out? isn't it a good idea to take everything down until the new point?

[HenryGandorf]

maybe i'm missing something... but if you've got place bets on the inside, the point hits, and then the shooter comes out with 7 or 11, doesn't it wipe you out? isn't it a good idea to take everything down until the new point?

well first off, nothing wipes ever with an 11. second of all, the place bets are not working on the come out, so they'll stay put. however, if you have come bets built up, you will lose them on a 7, but you'll get your odds back (only the original come bet is working, not the odds).

[Spotswood]

If you do shoot, pick up the book on dice setting by Sharpshooter, and learn to do it right.

Doesn't this take a ridiculous amount of practice, not just in casinos but on your own time? For people who only go to casinos every few months they aren't going to master this. I tell newbies just grab the dice, aim for the 'o' in Come and try to keep landing on it. That gives enough momentum to hit the wall but shouldn't bounce out or do much damage to stacked chips.

[A-Tex Devil]

Doesn't this take a ridiculous amount of practice, not just in casinos but on your own time? For people who only go to casinos every few months they aren't going to master this. I tell newbies just grab the dice, aim for the 'o' in Come and try to keep landing on it. That gives enough momentum to hit the wall but shouldn't bounce out or do much damage to stacked chips.

Embarrassing story. I was playing too sober one time and went into complete Mackey Sasser/Steve Sax/Chuck Knoblauch mode. Completely in my own head in mental midget mode. One die accidentally stuck to my middle finger on a throw and flew right at some poor girl's forehead. She was alright, but I went into the tank after that, afraid I would do it again, and kept letting the dice go to early, not even getting to the wall. Remember when Steve Sax used to just kind of stutter/short arm it over to first base like he had epilepsy of the shoulder or something like that? Yeah, that was me with the dice.

The dealers kept telling me I needed to start hitting the wall, which I did just enough for them not to pull me, but not enough for the pit boss to come over and make things worse. The drunk folks were making fun of me, deservedly so. I was a nervous wreck by that point. But I kept throwing winners. Weirdest feeling ever watching my stack pile up but feeling like an absolute a-hole.

Anyway, I finally crapped out, ordered two double bourbons, both of which were gone by the time the dice came around again, and I was fine the next time I threw (less successful, though). I've played and enjoyed craps for 15 years. This was about 3 years ago. Weirdest thing ever, and I hope it never happens again.

[fluff]

from now on I think everytime a dice flys off the table I am going to take my bets off for the next roll...I cant count how many times a dice flies off and the next roll they crap out.....

[HeHateMe]

Doesn't this take a ridiculous amount of practice, not just in casinos but on your own time? For people who only go to casinos every few months they aren't going to master this. I tell newbies just grab the dice, aim for the 'o' in Come and try to keep landing on it. That gives enough momentum to hit the wall but shouldn't bounce out or do much damage to stacked chips.

Takes tons of practice to set and throw dice to the point that you swing the odds back towards your favor. However, there is a lot of great info/advice in that book that a first timer can apply to help them become a more consistent thrower.

[capnamerca]

from now on I think everytime a dice flys off the table I am going to take my bets off for the next roll...I cant count how many times a dice flies off and the next roll they crap out.....

erm, about 16.67% of the time, I'd say.

[slorch]

I think the casinos invented the dice-setting scheme...right after card counting books came out.

[LonghornEE]

Embarrassing story. I was playing too sober one time and went into complete Mackey Sasser/Steve Sax/Chuck Knoblauch mode. Completely in my own head in mental midget mode. One die accidentally stuck to my middle finger on a throw and flew right at some poor girl's forehead. She was alright, but I went into the tank after that, afraid I would do it again, and kept letting the dice go to early, not even getting to the wall. Remember when Steve Sax used to just kind of stutter/short arm it over to first base like he had epilepsy of the shoulder or something like that? Yeah, that was me with the dice.

The dealers kept telling me I needed to start hitting the wall, which I did just enough for them not to pull me, but not enough for the pit boss to come over and make things worse. The drunk folks were making fun of me, deservedly so. I was a nervous wreck by that point. But I kept throwing winners. Weirdest feeling ever watching my stack pile up but feeling like an absolute a-hole.

Anyway, I finally crapped out, ordered two double bourbons, both of which were gone by the time the dice came around again, and I was fine the next time I threw (less successful, though). I've played and enjoyed craps for 15 years. This was about 3 years ago. Weirdest thing ever, and I hope it never happens again.

Good story. I've never been quite that off, but one of the longest throws I've ever had (30 mins plus) I think I threw the dice off the table more than 6 times. I try not to be superstitious, but it's hard not to request "same dice" on a good roll. I like to throw the dice high and one bounce it off the back wall and sometimes it misses the wall and goes over.

[Chest Rockwell]

Doesn't this take a ridiculous amount of practice, not just in casinos but on your own time? For people who only go to casinos every few months they aren't going to master this. I tell newbies just grab the dice, aim for the 'o' in Come and try to keep landing on it. That gives enough momentum to hit the wall but shouldn't bounce out or do much damage to stacked chips.

It does take a lot of practice to perfect your throw. Not only that, but having a consistent position on tables can be difficult. (I like to be just to the right of the stickman, so I have the shortest distance between me and the wall I'm throwing to) Not sure what station it's on, but Breaking Vegas had a good episode about craps players who built their own tables to practice. I try to practice on the low min tables and I always try to get in the same position at the table.

I set the dice in a "Flying V". Both 3s on top and make sure the other sides total 6 or 8, since there are two ways to have both 3s on top. Finger positioning is difficult to explain and master, look it up and find the grip that works best for you. When throwing I move my arm like a pendulum, swing only from the elbow, and try to land the dice at the base of the wall to minimize bounce and roll. While doing this, it was only the rolls I hit chips or got a big bounce I'd 7 out.

My favorite table used to be in the Harrah's sportsbook. Not only because you were surrounded by TVs but it was only an 8 foot table making the throw that much easier. My favorite dealers were at this table tpo. All of them $#@!s, so we got along quite well. They would give everybody a hard time and it was a lot of fun. They also learned the system well and would pay when we or they forgot to move a bet because we were bullshitting. /csb

[bedeviledegg]

Going to throw some dice at Coushatta this weekend. Can't wait.

[HenryGandorf]

a few things...

1. the worst roll i ever saw (by a man, chicks don't count) was at bally's i think. two right of the stick was trying not to aim them, but just fling them instead, and he threw both dice into the tray in front of the stick man. it happened so fast that no one knew where they went until he looked down and realized all 6 were in there.

2. whenever the dice go off the table, i'll spin around either once or three times depending on how drunk i am or how much money i have out there. on occasion i've called my bets off for that roll. only once can i remember it went out, and it was about the best feeling in the world.

3. don't worry about reading books on how to throw, just watch "the big town" and throw like cully the arm (dillon). i don't throw much but i try to emulate it when i do. it's hard to see from this dark trailer, but basically he set one die on top of the other, clicks them both twice on the table, then does a quick counter clock wise loop away from the the direction he's throwing, and lets them loose low skipping towards the wall.



i recommend the movie. diane lane gets naked.

[SMUlawUTGRAD]

I set the dice in a "Flying V". Both 3s on top and make sure the other sides total 6 or 8, since there are two ways to have both 3s on top. Finger positioning is difficult to explain and master, look it up and find the grip that works best for you. When throwing I move my arm like a pendulum, swing only from the elbow, and try to land the dice at the base of the wall to minimize bounce and roll. While doing this, it was only the rolls I hit chips or got a big bounce I'd 7 out.

1234

[bedeviledegg]

Just an update about Coushatta:

1. I suck at craps. It's at the point to where when I walk to the table, I'm certain I'm going to lose money.
2. Coushatta was the busiest casino I've ever seen. Really packed. They had 5 craps tables going ($5-$15 limits) and they were all packed packed packed.

[WBT]

Just an update about Coushatta:

1. I suck at craps. It's at the point to where when I walk to the table, I'm certain I'm going to lose money.
2. Coushatta was the busiest casino I've ever seen. Really packed. They had 5 craps tables going ($5-$15 limits) and they were all packed packed packed.

It always seems really crowded and they are building another hotel on the property so it's only going to get worse. Too bad gambling's so evil or else the state of Texas could really use some of the revenue that place pulls.

[slorch]

It always seems really crowded and they are building another hotel on the property so it's only going to get worse. Too bad gambling's so evil or else the state of Texas could really use some of the revenue that place pulls.

If Texas ever legalizes real gambling( not just the godforsaken slots,) Lake Chuck and Shreveport/ Bossier will be focked...

[tokamak]

If Texas ever legalizes real gambling( not just the godforsaken slots,) Lake Chuck and Shreveport/ Bossier will be focked...

Winstar is now the 3rd largest casino in the world. Not joking.

[slorch]

Winstar is now the 3rd largest casino in the world. Not joking.

A casino without a craps table is about as useful as a woman with no pussy...

[Gardner Barnes]

A casino without a craps table is about as useful as a woman with no pussy...

True. Florida casinos suck.

[UTIceberg]

HG, just sent you a PM

[TheGOAT]

Going to Shreveport tonight, ....

Any general advice for a first-timer?

Fly to Vegas and drive to O'Shea's and play $5 craps all night!

[Gardner Barnes]

erm, about 16.67% of the time, I'd say.

Yep. Some of these posts are cracking me up.

[TubaForce]

Got back from Vegas yesterday, had a 40 minute roll Thursday that put me back up for the trip. Was too timid pressing early on or it would have paid much better.

[slorch]

Got back from Vegas yesterday, had a 40 minute roll Thursday that put me back up for the trip. Was too timid pressing early on or it would have paid much better.

Conversely, if you had pressed too early and been out of the game due to losses, your comeback would not have occurred.

Glad you had a good trip!

[shakahorn]

Got back from Vegas yesterday, had a 40 minute roll Thursday that put me back up for the trip. Was too timid pressing early on or it would have paid much better.

never anything wrong with taking a profit. $1, $100, $1000, it's all good.

[HenryGandorf]

Conversely, if you had pressed too early and been out of the game due to losses, your comeback would not have occurred.

Glad you had a good trip!

i assume he meant pressing earlier in the same roll. the one thing that sucks when you're playing a system is that you can never blame or credit gut feelings. if the dice roll a certain way, you can tell exactly what money you should be winning if you play right.

[slorch]

i assume he meant pressing earlier in the same roll. the one thing that sucks when you're playing a system is that you can never blame or credit gut feelings. if the dice roll a certain way, you can tell exactly what money you should be winning if you play right.

He mentioned being timid with his early presses, so I assumed gut-feeling was over-riding systematic play...LOL.

[Spotswood]

No need to change anything just because you're shooting. Obviously you have the added distraction of dice being pushed in front of you with each (non-7) roll, but take your time and you'll be able to keep up with all the payouts and collections before long.

11 points in a row yielding $50 profit is a crime.

[shakahorn]

...
My bankroll outlasted all of them...

One of the "features" of this system is that you won't lose a lot on a cold table.

...
They were betting the horn quite a bit and then A yo bet every so often...

I view the horn bet as the worst bet in the whole casino, odds wise. I mean, I'm sure there are worse bets, but when the game you're playing has hundreds of other bets that pay better odds...Having said that, I (try to) tip the dealers with a horn bet. Chicks just think it's just cool when I say "two way horn high yo!"

No need to change anything just because you're shooting. Obviously you have the added distraction of dice being pushed in front of you with each (non-7) roll, but take your time and you'll be able to keep up with all the payouts and collections before long.

In order to preserve the "don't lose a lot" feature of the system, you might want to take an extra collect or two before you start pressing. This covers the non-house money you've got sitting on the pass line. But really, that's an entirely different system.

[Chest Rockwell]

The only time I play the Pass line is when I'm the shooter, and I will stay usually back it with max odds. At crowded tables there are plenty of people who pass the roll. I've worked on my shooting style and want to roll the dice when it's my turn since I usually do better than the rookies just chucking the dice down the table. The system relies on finding a decent shooter that doesn't 7 out quickly in order to make good money.

[CBT]

Played at a $25 table this weekend at Cesars. 11 shooters in a row crapped out before hitting a point. Two of them were Nick Mangold and Common. (/csb) FML. I saved a little by using a system similar to HG's, but it was still a blood bath.

[shakahorn]

...The system relies on finding a decent shooter that doesn't 7 out quickly in order to make good money.

You don't say...

[lonestarguido]

In Vegas now at the mirage.

Better to go walk across the st to casino royals to learn the system?

[Battlestar Bevo]

In Vegas now at the mirage.

Better to go walk across the st to casino royals to learn the system?

If Mirage has $5 tables you could stay there. I think the dealers at Casino Royale suck. When I was first learning they acted very put out that I didn't know what I was doing. Look for a $5 game at Harrah's or Flamingo. The dealers at the Margaritaville part of Flamingo are very friendly and helpful. The Margaritaville table has been $5 until 4-5pm my last three trips.

edit: That being said about CR, they often have $3 tables during the day.

[The Banner Year]

Never played craps, don't understand all the rules, but I've enjoyed reading this thread. I have a couple of questions about HG"s system. Do you never roll the dice in this system, or can you roll the dice still do the system and not bet on pass or don't pass? Also, why do you choose your numbers based on what the point is, can you not do a place bet on the point, or is this just superstition.

[HenryGandorf]

you have to have a bet on the pass or don't pass if you want to roll. on the rare occasion that i feel like rolling, i will play the minimum amount on the pass line. if i'm wasted, i'll also bet odds. regardless, it's rare.

as for your second question, i guess if you haven't played craps, it seems like superstition, and i'm alright with that. there are just so many times where the shooter is trying to hit the point, and seems to roll for 15 minutes and hits every other number 5 times before the point. this system takes advantage of rolls like that. and yes, you can place the point, although some dealers will try to talk you out of it, because it can get a little confusing, and he'll assume you don't know what you're doing.

[A-Tex Devil]

you have to have a bet on the pass or don't pass if you want to roll. on the rare occasion that i feel like rolling, i will play the minimum amount on the pass line. if i'm wasted, i'll also bet odds. regardless, it's rare.

as for your second question, i guess if you haven't played craps, it seems like superstition, and i'm alright with that. there are just so many times where the shooter is trying to hit the point, and seems to roll for 15 minutes and hits every other number 5 times before the point. this system takes advantage of rolls like that. and yes, you can place the point, although some dealers will try to talk you out of it, because it can get a little confusing, and he'll assume you don't know what you're doing.

I tried this system over the weekend, mostly at PH, and the main benefit, as mentioned, is that it can get you through cold tables by minimizing exposure. I liked that. My biggest problem was simply remembering what I had on each number and whether I had collected or not, especially 8 makers neat in and double especially when dealers didn't understand how I was playing. When I got up on occasion, I switched back to pass/odds, come/odds, which I still enjoy better (less to think about), but you have to have the bankroll to deal with the *huge* variance.

That said, best roll I had was on HG's system at HRH where I started with $250 at a $10 table, got down to ~$70, then the next roll brought me back up to $800. When the 7 finally comes you wince a bit as they pull ~$400 off the table, but I did a pretty good job convincing myself that was just house money working for me.

[Houstonian]

I tried this system over the weekend, mostly at PH, and the main benefit, as mentioned, is that it can get you through cold tables by minimizing exposure. I liked that. My biggest problem was simply remembering what I had on each number and whether I had collected or not, especially 8 makers neat in and double especially when dealers didn't understand how I was playing. When I got up on occasion, I switched back to pass/odds, come/odds, which I still enjoy better (less to think about), but you have to have the bankroll to deal with the *huge* variance.

That said, best roll I had was on HG's system at HRH where I started with $250 at a $10 table, got down to ~$70, then the next roll brought me back up to $800. When the 7 finally comes you wince a bit as they pull ~$400 off the table, but I did a pretty good job convincing myself that was just house money working for me.

You were at P-Ho last weekend? We must have crossed paths at some time. Had a $7k swing before finally finishing up for the trip. Blackjack was killing me then I took all I had, bet on black and pressed it. Took the winnings and a marker out at the craps table and doubled it. That marked the beginning of the turnaround. /csb

Craps has become a great way of walking off a bad day at the blackjack tables for those of you who want to dip your toe in the water.

Damn I love those ladies at the pit right outside the high limit.