Geoff Ketchum is a fraud...

**BEHorn** · 08-20-2009 08:51 PM

I am taking no position for, or against, anyone in this, but given the content of this thread I thought some might find this discussion of defamation "injury" interesting:

What Constitutes Injury to Reputation?

The plaintiff must establish proof of damage to reputation in order to recover any damages for mental anguish; see Gobin v. Globe Publishing Co., 232 Kan. 1, 649 P.2d 1239, 1244 (1982); Swanson v. American Hardware Mutual Ins. Co., 359 N.W.2d 705, 707 (Minn. App. 1984) (rev. denied) ("To establish a claim in a defamation action [plaintiff] must prove that the [defendant] made false and defamatory statements about them which injured their reputation.").

Evidence of plaintiff's poor reputation is generally admissible to mitigate damages. Davis v. Hamilton, 92 N.W. 512, 515 (Minn. 1902); Finklea v. Jacksonville Daily Progress, 742 S.W.2d 512, 517 (Tex. App. 1987). If an individual's reputation cannot be further damaged, a defamation suit serves no purpose, wastes judicial resources, and hinders First Amendment interests. Id.

The "libel-proof" plaintiff. A plaintiff is "libel-proof" when his reputation has been irreparably stained by prior publications. At the point the challenged statements are published, then, plaintiff's reputation is already so damaged that a plaintiff cannot recover more than nominal damages for subsequent defamatory statements. Marcone v. Penthouse Int'l Magazine for Men, 754 F.2d 1072, 1079 (3rd Cir. 1985).

However, a court will not dismiss a defamation action merely because the plaintiff already has a bad reputation. Schiavone Construction Co. v. Time, Inc., 646 F. Supp. 1511, 1516 (D.N.J. 1986), rev'd, 847 F.2d 1069, 1072-73 (3rd Cir. 1988). Finklea, 742 S.W.2d at 516 ("[E]ven the public outcast's remaining good reputation is entitled to protection.") Rather the statement upon which the defamation claim is based should relate to the same matters upon which the prior bad reputation was founded, or to substantially similar matters.

In extreme cases, a plaintiff's general reputation may be so bad that a court will hold a plaintiff libel-proof on all matters. For example, Charles Manson or Adolph Hitler could not be damaged by defamatory statements. Langston v. Eagle Publishing Co., 719 S.W.2d 612, 623 (Tex. App. 1986).

**hayden_horn** · 08-20-2009 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ketchum

I've said everything that I need to say on this matter. The facts are on my side.

Anyone suggesting otherwise has base for claiming so. It's like engaging in a discussion with someone that thinks the world is flat.

If you believe that, I can't change your mind anyway.

**blacklab** · 08-20-2009 08:53 PM

Bob, can you please take down this thread. It completely false in every way and it's undeserved. I appreciate your time and consideration.

http://www.shaggybevo.com/forums/vie...&postorder=asc

I have cc'd my lawyer on this email.

I was planning on taking it down, but have been pretty busy and hadn't gotten around to it. I thought the posters on the thread did a pretty good job of $#@!ting on the op.

But cc'ing a lawyer just rubs me the wrong way. The implied threat of legal action is douche bag maneuver and makes me want to leave it up.

What do you guys think?

**SizzleChest** · 08-20-2009 08:54 PM

Your next step is to go back and delete all your posts on this thread. This will help you. Trust me.

**random horn** · 08-20-2009 08:56 PM

**ToY** · 08-20-2009 08:56 PM

I like how the BC guys all jumped in to bash Ketch just like they did on the Jen Seastrunk thread.

**SizzleChest** · 08-20-2009 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by blacklab

Bob, can you please take down this thread. It completely false in every way and it's undeserved. I appreciate your time and consideration.

http://www.shaggybevo.com/forums/vie...&postorder=asc

I have cc'd my lawyer on this email.

I was planning on taking it down, but have been pretty busy and hadn't gotten around to it. I thought the posters on the thread did a pretty good job of $#@!ting on the op.

But cc'ing a lawyer just rubs me the wrong way. The implied threat of legal action is douche bag maneuver and makes me want to leave it up.

What do you guys think?

BL, I think you should leave it up.

**TubaForce** · 08-20-2009 08:57 PM

Leave it up.

The Lawyer thing is just a bitch move.

**SizzleChest** · 08-20-2009 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by ToY

I like how the BC guys all jumped into bash Ketch just like they did on the Jen Seastrunk thread.

I don't see how fans of Boston College have any role in this debate.

**crackamacgowski** · 08-20-2009 08:58 PM

Ketch is a big baby and my friend almost stole his girlfriend.

**hayden_horn** · 08-20-2009 08:59 PM

i say leave it up for multiple reasons.

1) clearly some douche was internet rumor mongering
2) it demonstrates that barking carnival loves nothing more than internet drama
3) ketch came on very reasonably, then dove into the deep end after sharting his swimming trunks

**Meursault** · 08-20-2009 08:59 PM

If you want to find out who the OP is, start here:

Originally Posted by utgrad97

I can only attest to what I know personally, and that is that Ketch promised to pay back half my Swing for 44 entrance fee in 2006, and never did when I couldn't make the tournament.

And $#@! taking the thread down. That weak ass $#@! is anathema to the Shaggy Ethos.

**random horn** · 08-20-2009 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by TubaForce

Leave it up.
The Lawyer thing is just a bitch move.

agree

**mdmost** · 08-20-2009 08:59 PM

Leave it up. The whole cc'd my lawyer is a chicken$#@! scare tactic. Ketch is a big boy who knows he isn't going to make tons of friends with his actions sometimes. How do we even know it's him and not some minion or fanboy like Sii who wrote you that PM?

Thank goodness LHG never sought legal counsel against this place. I'd love to see some on here try to defend calling her "whale $#@!" in a court of law.

**ChrisApplewhite** · 08-20-2009 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by ToY

I like how the BC guys all jumped in to bash Ketch just like they did on the Jen Seastrunk thread.

Yeah we sure have egg on our faces from that one.

**blacklab** · 08-20-2009 08:59 PM

Jim, for the record, after making a request to have the thread deleted, the mods have decided to leave the slander against me up on their board.

Ketch

uh oh $#@! just got real!

**Ketchum** · 08-20-2009 08:59 PM

blacklab, I cc'd my lawyer because he asked me to cc him on anything regarding the matter that popped up another website relating to this issue.

It's a pretty big deal. IMO. I'd suggest you consider walking in my shoes on this matter before taking the position you seem to be taking.

I'm the victim here. I'm the one being slandered.

Do what you please. I suppose I can't tell someone how to do their job. Different rules apply to different places.

Sorry.

**hayden_horn** · 08-20-2009 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ketchum

blacklab, I cc'd my lawyer because he asked me to cc him on anything regarding the matter that popped up another website relating to this issue.

It's a pretty big deal. IMO. I'd suggest you consider walking in my shoes on this matter before taking the position you seem to be taking.

I'm the victim here. I'm the one being slandered.

Do what you please. I suppose I can't tell someone how to do their job. Different rules apply to different places.

Sorry.

is your lawyer aware you are making a public spectacle of yourself?

Connor_Macleod · 08-20-2009 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisApplewhite

Yeah we sure have egg on our faces from that one.

Shouldn't you be in camp coach?

**SizzleChest** · 08-20-2009 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by hayden_horn

i say leave it up for multiple reasons.

1) clearly some douche was internet rumor mongering
2) it demonstrates that barking carnival loves nothing more than internet drama
3) ketch came on very reasonably, then dove into the deep end after sharting his swimming trunks

Yeah, gonna have to disagree with you about #2.

Scipio shut down that thread when he saw what happened. Henry James and the other "barkers" attempted to keep to the topic, which was about Tray Allen's move to DT.

I think you have solid takes up and down the line, but you're off here.

**Ketchum** · 08-20-2009 09:06 PM

hayden, if you think I'm making a public spectacle of myself by simply defending myself against a heinous allegation, then I'll just step away from the discussion as it relates to you.

Your probably right though. I don't need to respond on this board again. Have a good night, guys.

**Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand** · 08-20-2009 09:06 PM

I want an America where i can say "Ketchum's a douchebag." I want an America where i can "hey, hold on there buddy. maybe Ketchum's not a douchebag."

I want freedom.

and some Pringles.

RANCH FLAVORED!!!1!!!11!!

seriously, i haven't followed this thread too closely, but from my perusing (i talk good), if someone is accusing ketch of something illegal or underhanded without some sorta evidence....(again, i've only skimmed thread)....then deleting the thread wouldn't be out of hand.

**hayden_horn** · 08-20-2009 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by SizzleChest

Yeah, gonna have to disagree with you about #2.

Scipio shut down that thread when he saw what happened. Henry James and the other "barkers" attempted to keep to the topic, which was about Tray Allen's move to DT.

I think you have solid takes up and down the line, but you're off here.

i see your point about the taking down of the thread, sizzle. but it went on for some time, the damage was done (which wasn't really damage at all, imo), and appropriate action was taken.

but my reference was more to when ya'll come over here en force to make a point, usually against a specific poster or two - that's what i meant.

you're always here. i get that. but the barking carnival crew always seems to show up just in time to effect a pile on, whether or not it it warranted. in this case, i think it is. in the seastrunk case, i thought it was.

just an observation, though.

**ToY** · 08-20-2009 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisApplewhite

Yeah we sure have egg on our faces from that one.

You guys should pat yourself on the back for chasing her off the site. I'm sure that the Longhorn community feels gracious.

**SizzleChest** · 08-20-2009 09:08 PM

And Ketchum also came on here, in his first post, alluding to the "source" that is trying to harm him (read between the lines), and then carefully left out any specifics about said source.

That, my friend, is called stepping in it.

**mdmost** · 08-20-2009 09:08 PM

Ketch doesn't realize we have a lot of people on this site who are in fact lawyers. So any threats of any action are going to be met with what is the actual reality of the legal world.

Ketch, just say the guy is full of $#@! and move on. You making this a bigger deal than you need to make it.

**hayden_horn** · 08-20-2009 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ketchum

hayden, if you think I'm making a public spectacle of myself by simply defending myself against a heinous allegation, then I'll just step away from the discussion as it relates to you.

Your probably right though. I don't need to respond on this board again. Have a good night, guys.

probably a good decision. your attorney will no doubt thank you effusively.

giving this kind of $#@! a platform is all you've done here.

**judge roybeanbag** · 08-20-2009 09:09 PM

buncha [s:d5a1296af4]$#@!s[/s:d5a1296af4] whiny vaginas on this thread.

Ho ho ho! $#@! you one and all!

**Aw_Hamburgers** · 08-20-2009 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by ToY

You guys should pat yourself on the back for chasing her off the site. I'm sure that the Longhorn community feels gracious.

Oh please. She's ran herself off of like 10 different boards.

**longhornmatt** · 08-20-2009 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by SizzleChest

And Ketchum also came on here, in his first post, alluding to the "source" that is trying to harm (read between the lines), and then carefully left out any specifics about said source.

That, my friend, is called stepping in it.

Yeah, I hate when people post outlandish accusations on Shaggy without providing specifics about their sources.

Wait, I forget: is the Barking Carnival gang Pot and Ketch is Kettle, or is it the other way around?

**blacklab** · 08-20-2009 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ketchum

blacklab, I cc'd my lawyer because he asked me to cc him on anything regarding the matter that popped up another website relating to this issue.

tell your lawyer thanks for making you look like a douche bag

Originally Posted by Ketchum

It's a pretty big deal. IMO. I'd suggest you consider walking in my shoes on this matter before taking the position you seem to be taking.

So you'd like me to make up rumors about people, post $#@! that isn't true, post misleading crap and rip off fellow horns to see what it's like? I'll pass.

Originally Posted by Ketchum

I'm the victim here. I'm the one being slandered.

OMG!! People are making up $#@! and putting it up on the internet!!!
At least he doesn't charge $10 a month to read his $#@!.

Originally Posted by Ketchum

Do what you please. I suppose I can't tell someone how to do their job. Different rules apply to different places.

That is correct.

Originally Posted by Ketchum

Sorry.

Yes, you are.

**hayden_horn** · 08-20-2009 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by ToY

You guys should pat yourself on the back for chasing her off the site. I'm sure that the Longhorn community feels gracious.

well, toy, she surely wasn't doing herself any favors through her posts.

jt · 08-20-2009 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by mdmost

Ketch, just say the guy is full of $#@! and move on. You making this a bigger deal than you need to make it.

this. i've met ketch a couple of times irl and think he's a good dude. should have just made his point and moved on. if the allegations have no basis to them, wtf does it matter?

**mdmost** · 08-20-2009 09:13 PM

POW POW!

**SizzleChest** · 08-20-2009 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by hayden_horn

i see your point about the taking down of the thread, sizzle. but it went on for some time, the damage was done (which wasn't really damage at all, imo), and appropriate action was taken.

but my reference was more to when ya'll come over here en force to make a point, usually against a specific poster or two - that's what i meant.

you're always here. i get that. but the barking carnival crew always seems to show up just in time to effect a pile on, whether or not it it warranted. in this case, i think it is. in the seastrunk case, i thought it was.

just an observation, though.

I think most times the points and takes are solid, but the messenger and/or the way the message gets delivered puts people off. That's fair.

It doesn't put me off when SLX or CTJ post $#@! - I think it does make this community better to have them here. Chris Applewhite's technical takes on offense, with his famous moving dots, is also good stuff and I would hope be very welcome here.

It's all to each his own, I guess.

**C-Man** · 08-20-2009 09:16 PM

**judge roybeanbag** · 08-20-2009 09:16 PM

And just for the record, like anybody gives a $#@!, Ketchup, keep doing what you do. That's cool. If people rag on you for it then shrug it off, that's what real men do. Don't $#@! with the fan base. if somebody wants to pay you for your $#@!, more power to you. Just don't be a pussy and go all legal on people if they get in your rag. Toss it in the trash like most menstrual women do and move on.

**Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand** · 08-20-2009 09:16 PM

...when posting gets realz.

**airportlobby** · 08-20-2009 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by SizzleChest

And Ketchum also came on here, in his first post, alluding to the "source" that is trying to harm him (read between the lines), and then carefully left out any specifics about said source.

That, my friend, is called stepping in it.

Well, Ketch is probably the only person on this thread who isn't effectively anonymous. I can understand his desire not to have the thread up. The fact that anyone is debating whether the allegation is true or not only serves to create doubt that there may in fact be some truth (of course, hopefully there isn't). Internet rumors have a way of festering.

The "shaggy polices itself" thing is only useful insofar as shaggy actually does police itself.

I feel dirty just posting in this bs.

**Scraps** · 08-20-2009 09:17 PM

Blacklab....

THROW IT DOWN BIG FELLA!

**SizzleChest** · 08-20-2009 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by longhornmatt

Yeah, I hate when people post outlandish accusations on Shaggy without providing specifics about their sources.

Wait, I forget: is the Barking Carnival gang Pot and Ketch is Kettle, or is it the other way around?

Look, Ketchum could've taken the high road. Not only did he not, he made himself look far worse.

**mdmost** · 08-20-2009 09:18 PM

It's times like these I really really love this place.

llogg · 08-20-2009 09:18 PM

So my guess for the guy Ketch is hinting at? Cleve Bryant.

* The allegations made in this post with regard to one Geoff Ketchum and/or one Cleve Bryant are intended for entertainment value only. Any relation to actual facts is purely coincidental.

**The Tower** · 08-20-2009 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by mdmost

It's time like these I really really love this place.

agreed.

**mdmost** · 08-20-2009 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by llogg

So my guess for the guy Ketch is hinting at? Cleve Bryant.

* The allegations made in this post with regard to one Geoff Ketchum and/or one Cleve Bryant are intended for entertainment value only. Any relation to actual facts is purely coincidental.

Oh $#@!, Ketch just cc'd his lawyer on that one.

**longhornmatt** · 08-20-2009 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by SizzleChest

Look, Ketchum could've taken the high road. Not only did he not, he made himself look far worse.

No argument on that.

**hayden_horn** · 08-20-2009 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by SizzleChest

I think most times the points and takes are solid, but the messenger and/or the way the message gets delivered puts people off. That's fair.

It doesn't put me off when SLX or CTJ post $#@! - I think it does make this community better to have them here. Chris Applewhite's technical takes on offense, with his famous moving dots, is also good stuff and I would hope be very welcome here.

It's all to each his own, I guess.

there are certain posters i always stop to read. pretty much every BC guy is one of those posters. but when the long knives come out, it does tend to get bloody.

**SizzleChest** · 08-20-2009 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by airportlobby

Well, Ketch is probably the only person on this thread who isn't effectively anonymous. I can understand his desire not to have the thread up. The fact that anyone is debating whether the allegation is true or not only serves to create doubt that there may in fact be some truth (of course, hopefully there isn't). Internet rumors have a way of festering.

The "shaggy polices itself" thing is only useful insofar as shaggy actually does police itself.

I feel dirty just posting in this bs.

You know, I would agree with your sentiment, if Ketchum hadn't CHOSEN to post over here, So he's a public person. How many times does this kind of $#@! work out for public people when they dive into the internet anonymity pool? Never.

**Skipper** · 08-20-2009 09:21 PM

Interstingly enough, I wrote a 35 page law review paper in 2005 on Defamation and anoynmity on message boards (required, certainly not for fun). It's as interesting a topic as I could find at the time but haven't kept up with the case law development because quite frankly I don't give a $#@!. If anyone is actually curious on the subject I would be happy to shoot you my paper.

As to the issue at hand. I can understand why Ketch is pissed off. Rightfully so, because that is a great event he put on and it's obviously something that was not only a time commitment but something he was emotionally involved with as well. That being said, no need to delete the thread. Everyone that has read it knows what a douchebag the original poster is now. Ketch made his point loud and clear.

**judge roybeanbag** · 08-20-2009 09:21 PM

BTW Geoff, was that you I just saw on Project Runway? You fell asleep but it damned sure looked like you.

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