Austin, TX F1 USGP?!?!

[Longhornmaniac8]

From what I've read over on F1technical.net (which I know mandingo participates on, as well), I think there is a lot of skepticism about the state of the race this year, but not future years. Not necessarily in the sense that it won't happen (the general consensus seems to be that it will), but that it may not be entirely up to speed (if you pardon the pun). This is evidenced by recent decisions not to widen Elroy Rd. and such until after the race this year.

It's also worth noting that aside from the brief construction halt at the end of last year, there's no reason to believe there are any immediate concerns in terms of construction. I think we all wish they were farther along, but from where it's at now if this pace continues, I really don't see any reason why it won't get done. Furthermore, I haven't heard any grumblings that finances are lacking to continue construction. mandingo has followed this a lot longer, and a lot more in depth than I, so he's certainly more qualified to verify or correct anything I've said.

As I said earlier in the thread, the worst outcome for anyone who has invested large sums of money into it is for the event to be canceled. That puts the entire endeavor in jeopardy. Fiscal politicking aside, they (the big spenders) need this race to happen worse than anyone.

[SPII]

what does ecclestone and f1 have to lose if the race doesn't happen this year? surely they can swap in another track and still make bank... right?

[mandingo]

what does ecclestone and f1 have to lose if the race doesn't happen this year? surely they can swap in another track and still make bank... right?

COTA has everything to lose. Bernie...not so much. He's been paid for this year and will keep that money regardless of whether there's a race. Can't swap in another track mid-season...at least not without some sort of miraculous act from the FIA, FOM, and the teams.

[mandingo]

Some thoughts & questions about what came out of that meeting last night:

Access:

-Seriously, if they don't want pedestrians and cyclists entering the property (after they originally said they' encourage bike ingress and egress, even to the point of agreeing with the city to provide showers & changing areas for cyclists) then I'd like to know what they plan to do for fans who want to cycle in, who live nearby, who are staying nearby, or who are parking at a friend's house. Do they intend to have them drive out, against the trafffic flow, to the nearest park & ride lot & then ride 20 miles back? That's absurd & it's mind boggling to me that none of them thought of this before the meeting last night. It was the first thing that popped into my head when I heard. Then again, given their record til now, how can I really be surprised. Indeed, from the accounts I've heard so far, while COTA did come with more answers last light, most of the questions were met with "That's still under consideration".

-Also, do you have to be a member of the League of Bicycle Voters to have access to the bike parking area and the shuttle? If so, W....T....F?


Camping:

-Allowing tent-campers onsite would help traffic on race day with minimal investment and would increase revenues through concession sales, etc.
- How much will it cost to park an RV in one of the 76 spots? I'm on the RV list & have asked a multiple times for info & asked what was my position on that list. No answer.


Parking:

-I wonder how many of the PSL buyers are being told that not only will they pay a hefty price for their parking pass, but they'll be at the back of the lot behind F1 teams/FIA/FOM personnel, Paddock Club Members, Media, Suite holders and staff.

-They were nearing enough parking space for everyone in the last plans that showed parking space, and they've acquired more land around the track since then. So where did so much of the parking go? It looks now like about 700 acres of 1100+ will just be unused on race week. JRaymond, I know you and cxstacy had a pretty good grip on the parking situation. Maybe you can help me out on that.


Traffic estimates:

-Is it just me or do the 40K & 50K Friday & Saturday estimates seem just a tad low? I know the Saturday figure is very low compared to Montreal.

[Hefeweizen]

I suspect the traffic estimates were done based on what the TIA (Traffic Impact Analysis) said the roads could handle.

There's a serious disconnect between planning and reality there.

[mandingo]

COTA & Pirelli just announced a promotional tie and a summer demo car tour of Texas.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte...h_pirelli.html

[Armybrat]

[mandingo]

I suspect the traffic estimates were done based on what the TIA (Traffic Impact Analysis) said the roads could handle.

There's a serious disconnect between planning and reality there.

Seriously. It's been two $#@!ing years. Getting the roads up to par should have been one of the top priorities at the very beginning of this project. Everyone knew it. This $#@! should have been worked in the first few months, not the last few. Right down to the last detail, including camping, access for people nearby...all of it. They have known what problems they had out there for at least 2 years and nothing, not one thing, has been done to make the circuit accessible to bikes or pedestrians, and they don't have a plan for locals or their visitors to access the track? Seriously?

They've $#@!ed around on this. For two years.

[mandingo]

Funny vid. My buddy & his daughter made. Thanks, I thought I had already posted it.

[Sooner2483]

I have a question, and I'm not trying to be a douche, but I'm in a wheelchair. It seems appropriate. Is ths thing gonna be 100% ADA Compliant by race time? I'd be awful pissed if I was sat somewhere I couldn't see, or if I tried to use the crapper, and it weren't accessible.

[mandingo]

I have a question, and I'm not trying to be a douche, but I'm in a wheelchair. It seems appropriate. Is ths thing gonna be 100% ADA Compliant by race time? I'd be awful pissed if I was sat somewhere I couldn't see, or if I tried to use the crapper, and it weren't accessible.

Haven't heard a thing about that. I'll see what I can find out.

Great question. Thanks for bringing it up.

I'm assuming they'd have to clear that hurdle to gain permitting for operations, wouldn't they? Or am I being naive?

[Sooner2483]

Haven't heard a thing about that. I'll see what I can find out.

Great question. Thanks for bringing it up.

I'm assuming they'd have to clear that hurdle to gain permitting for operations, wouldn't they? Or am I being naive?

Here's the thing with ADA compliance: Everyone interprets it differently. Indianapolis Motor Speedway is perhaps the most accessible track I've Ever seen. Atlanta Motor Speedway, Fails in this regard. And I'm not just talking bathrooms. but the entire experience. (Seating, etc) As far as getting operations Permits, I'd assume so.....Cuz if they didn't, Someone could sue their asses big time.

[SPII]

2 questions:

1. Have any of you been to an ALMS race
2. Is there a meta motorsports thread? don't wanna $#@! on a F1 thread with ALMS talk. thanks.

[mandingo]

2 questions:

1. Have any of you been to an ALMS race
2. Is there a meta motorsports thread? don't wanna $#@! on a F1 thread with ALMS talk. thanks.

1. Yep. Twice in Houston. Better than the IndyCar races it supported.
2. Don't know.

[mandingo]

Here are some new construction photos shot today by my co-admin at Facebook.com/FoF1ATX:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

[mandingo]

...and here's the Statesman story of how Tavo Hellmund & Kevin Schwantz designed Circuit of the Americas' track layout. Enjoy!

http://www.statesman.com/sports/form...inglePage=true

[SPII]

dingo,

how confident are you the race will happen? what facilities/issues do you foresee being the most prone to incompletion/problems?

[mandingo]

dingo,

how confident are you the race will happen? what facilities/issues do you foresee being the most prone to incompletion/problems?

The project has been scaled back sooooo much that they really should complete what's left in the plan, barring further funding issues (note that I'm not ruling out that possibility). I think as far as things not being finished....it will likely be most evident in how (un)polished or (un)finished out many of the details are away from the main straight. That's where they're concentrating almost all their efforts right now. There and the amphitheater & the stupid tower.

That said, the bigger issue is not the construction. Two years into this and with 7 months left, it shouldn't even be a consideration that the project might not be completed in time. It should be a given.

I think the biggest issues will be with how the event is run (if run by the current group).

[mandingo]

...and here's the Statesman story of how Tavo Hellmund & Kevin Schwantz designed Circuit of the Americas' track layout. Enjoy!

http://www.statesman.com/sports/form...inglePage=true

...and check this out. Here's Tavo's 5 year old COTA layout sketch & planning notes. Very cool.

[TheCruiser]

if you turn it on its side, it's the Charlie Brown Christmas Tree...

[ninjacoco]

But it's in Austin. That's a bong. :)

Neat story of how they put it all together, though.

[drifter379]

I'm not an F1 fan and don't really follow it at all. But hasn't F1 been a failure everywhere else they have raced in the U.S? I really don't see this turning out well. I go by the track on 812 quite a bit and to put it mildly that road $#@!ing sucks. The small town (if you want to call it that) of Elroy has absolutely no facilities and really looks like a $#@! hole. They might get the track finished and have a race but I cant imagine any of the first time international fans visiting would return.
Full disclosure. I'm a NASCAR fan and grew up going to NASCAR races all over the south. If the tickets are affordable and available I look forward to seeing an F1 race at least once.

Now for a competition question. I have watched parts of a couple races this year to get a feel for F1 since its going to be coming to this area and Ive noticed there is very little if any passing going on. Is this common or have I just been watching the wrong tracks?

[rantanamo]

I'm not an F1 fan and don't really follow it at all. But hasn't F1 been a failure everywhere else they have raced in the U.S? I really don't see this turning out well. I go by the track on 812 quite a bit and to put it mildly that road $#@!ing sucks. The small town (if you want to call it that) of Elroy has absolutely no facilities and really looks like a $#@! hole. They might get the track finished and have a race but I cant imagine any of the first time international fans visiting would return.
Full disclosure. I'm a NASCAR fan and grew up going to NASCAR races all over the south. If the tickets are affordable and available I look forward to seeing an F1 race at least once.

Now for a competition question. I have watched parts of a couple races this year to get a feel for F1 since its going to be coming to this area and Ive noticed there is very little if any passing going on. Is this common or have I just been watching the wrong tracks?

What? LOL. Very little passing? You need to watch the entirety of the races my friend. I watch NASCAR, IndyCar, F1, MotoGP, ALMS. F1 has by far been the most exciting form of motorsport this year. The last 15 laps of the Chinese GP >>>>>>>>>>>> All of racing this season. There's rarely any yellow flag correction passing(my term in oval racing where the numerous yellows have shuffled the field, creating a situation where you get a lot of passing because slower cars have plenty of ways to get upfront) in F1, so pretty much every pass is meaningful, and there has been a ton. If you notice, long green runs are pretty much boring in all of motorsports, but I think open wheel series have figured this out with differing tire compounds

What's funny is, every USGP has been successful at the track. Indy was the best attended race on the F1 calendar during its run. The failures have been in the front office for Formula 1 in the US and you may end up with again with COTA.

[mandingo]

I'm not an F1 fan and don't really follow it at all. But hasn't F1 been a failure everywhere else they have raced in the U.S?

No.

Once you take even a cursory look at the facts you will see that is utter myth.

I really don't see this turning out well. I go by the track on 812 quite a bit and to put it mildly that road $#@!ing sucks. The small town (if you want to call it that) of Elroy has absolutely no facilities and really looks like a $#@! hole. They might get the track finished and have a race but I cant imagine any of the first time international fans visiting would return.

Well I guess the jury is still out on that. As Rantanamo said, it's all about the way it's handled by the front office, and so far COTA is not looking so good there. But wewillsee.

Full disclosure. I'm a NASCAR fan and grew up going to NASCAR races all over the south. If the tickets are affordable and available I look forward to seeing an F1 race at least once.

Be careful. Once you attend your first, it won't be your last.

Now for a competition question. I have watched parts of a couple races this year to get a feel for F1 since its going to be coming to this area and Ive noticed there is very little if any passing going on. Is this common or have I just been watching the wrong tracks?

I always hear this, and I guess there's relatively little passing compared to NASCAR in terms of pure numbers, but it's "quality" passing vs large "quantity" passing. There are numerous passes in F1 that people talk about for decades after the fact.

In NASCAR, passes are dime-a-dozen. Some poor sap gets hung out to dry and gets passed by a huge draft of cars. WHAM. Just like that you have 5 or 10 "passes" in practically the blink of an eye. In F1, a trailing driver has to push hard turn after turn, lap after lap just to get into position to make the pass. Then he has to use his skill to set up and pull off the pass, often making multiple attempts before making it stick. It's apples and oranges and I don't see how anyone can make a rational comparison based merely on numbers alone.

[bentleybrau]

No.

Once you take even a cursory look at the facts you will see that is utter myth.



Well I guess the jury is still out on that. As Rantanamo said, it's all about the way it's handled by the front office, and so far COTA is not looking so good there. But wewillsee.



Be careful. Once you attend your first, it won't be your last.



I always hear this, and I guess there's relatively little passing compared to NASCAR in terms of pure numbers, but it's "quality" passing vs large "quantity" passing. There are numerous passes in F1 that people talk about for decades after the fact.

In NASCAR, passes are dime-a-dozen. Some poor sap gets hung out to dry and gets passed by a huge draft of cars. WHAM. Just like that you have 5 or 10 "passes" in practically the blink of an eye. In F1, a trailing driver has to push hard turn after turn, lap after lap just to get into position to make the pass. Then he has to use his skill to set up and pull off the pass, often making multiple attempts before making it stick. It's apples and oranges and I don't see how anyone can make a rational comparison based merely on numbers alone.

New here?

[mandingo]

So...Facebook Friends of Formula 1 Austin Texas went out to the Circuit both yesterday afternoon and Monday morning. Monday morning there was very little going on out on the back half of the track (T9 to the stadium section). Yesterday, activity picked up considerably out there. Work on the front straight structures seemed relatively light both days, with most work appearing to happen outside.

A helicopter passed by us when we were out by Turn 11 at Mr. Haywood's house getting some good pics. It would circle the track then land over by the construction trailers, then circle the track again, sometimes heading out toward Hwy 71 and then back around the track and to the trailers again. Did this about 7 or 8 times in less than 1 hour. We've heard that COTA is making a big push for more money, and we know investors have taken helo tours many times before, so....



I shot a few photos:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7614878&type=1

Here are some highlights (There are a LOT more at the link with lots of different angles I like but don't shoot often because it's more work. I had a hard time choosing just ten to show here):







Paving in the parking lot:





The view from SH 130:



Turns 8 & 9 from SH 130:



Main straight & Turn 1 from SH 130:



Turn 12, from Mr. Haywood's hill:



Mr. Haywood has a hell of a view:

[I love Submart]

So when does shaggy watch party get organized? No way us poor college kids can afford even practice tickets.

[mandingo]

New here?

Dude...if you think this place is irrational, you should see some of the flaming $#@!s over at F1technical.net.

[mandingo]

Ummm...

http://circuitoftheamericas.com/transportation

A limited number of pre-paid parking permits—or the Circuit of The Americas (COTA) shuttle—will be the only way to access the COTA area during the 2012 FORMULA 1 UNITED STATES GRAND PRIX™. There will be no cash parking at the venue, and roads leading into CoTA will be restricted to vehicles displaying assigned parking or residential permits..

The recommended transportation to COTA is by the official shuttle bus network operated by COTA in partnership with the City of Austin, Travis County and Capital Metro. Check here soon for details on where to pick up the shuttle throughout the greater Austin area.

...

Parking directions will be supplied with your parking permit and it is extremely important that these directions be followed! Not following instructions will mean your access into CoTA will be challenged.

Parking for Recreational Vehicles will require a pre-paid permit and will also be sold on first-come, first-served basis. Check back here for additional details starting in June 2012.

Parking for people with disabilities will require proper documentation submitted to COTA by Nov. 10, 2012. Please submit your request and your State ID to info@circuitoftheamericas.com. All documentation will be reviewed to assure authenticity.

[skipperj]

Dammit. They NEED A MONORAIL.

That $#@! sounds regarded.

[RamjetFDO]

Dammit. They NEED A MONORAIL.

Did someone say "Monorail"???

[bentleybrau]

My tailgate bus has disabled plates (because it was originally a school shortbus). Do I have moneymaking potential here?

[Armybrat]

Here's the thing with ADA compliance: Everyone interprets it differently. Indianapolis Motor Speedway is perhaps the most accessible track I've Ever seen. Atlanta Motor Speedway, Fails in this regard. And I'm not just talking bathrooms. but the entire experience. (Seating, etc) As far as getting operations Permits, I'd assume so.....Cuz if they didn't, Someone could sue their asses big time.

Well Sooner, you're wwelcome to tailgate with my son & his crowd by their rented RV on my property. You'll have 25 acres to $#@!/piss on at your leisure.

[Armybrat]

Ummm...

http://circuitoftheamericas.com/transportation

Screw that noise, my people are parkin' on my property.

[mandingo]

Screw that noise, my people are parkin' on my property.

So if they don't allow peds or cyclists admission, even with a ticket, then what do you, your friends, and others living in and visiting the Elroy area do?

I've been working with some Elroy folks to encourage COTA to allow peds & cyclists at at least one gate. Otherwise, COTA is basically saying here that people who could easily walk to the race will have to either buy a parking pass they don't need and then drive through the traffic, or drive to the nearest shuttle parking area and ride back to the track on a shuttle, then reverse the process afterward. Ridiculous on both counts.

[Texchas]

Mandingo, you are awesome. I've been lurking this thread for a while now and I have to participate now. I'm starting to solidify my plans for the trip down from DFW and could use a little more help. I know this is my first post, but I'm a born and bred Texan that's a die-hard F1 fan. Anyways, I've got a hotel room booked in San Marcos AND on in Austin just in case, but was looking at renting an RV and camping out somewhere nearby instead. I haven't read through the entire thread, but some kind fellas seem to be open to polite people using their land nearby the track? Heck, I'll pay or work for it to either park a car or camp out an RV. I'm not rich, but I'm determined to do whatever it takes to see this race so that's why I'm asking what the possibilities here are. Mr. Haywood or Armybrat? Haven't caught up on what that is all about.

Apparently though, if any of that was possible we still would be denied access to the entrance on foot/bike from someones property close by? Maybe rent a towncar limo or cab to drop off at the gate and pick up later at night? Everything about this race has me anxious. I get excited and worried about it. I've been desperately trying to get all the info I can to set my plans up early so I won't have to worry anymore. I'll be sticking around and posting here from now on until race day :D

Thanks all for the info and help already given.

[Texchas]

Oh, btw, if any of you are looking for hotel rooms on the cheap then I can let you know now. I've already given family and friends a chance to book so now I'll leave it up to you. PM for details, but an Austin motel is ~$100/night, and San Marcos is ~$52 a night for that weekend. They have openings for a single queen bedroom. I don't want to publicize everything for fear of things getting out of hand, but message or email me I'll let you know exactly where to look. Just don't plaster the info across the net is all I ask. Still new here.

[jcollins]

Not sure if you took this photo Mandingo, doesn't look clear enough to be from your quality sets, but I found it on another forum and thought it was an awesome angle nevertheless. Turn one looks bizarre.

[Hefeweizen]

Ummm...

http://circuitoftheamericas.com/transportation

What the $#@! is wrong with pedicabs? I see a business opportunity here.

[mandingo]

Not sure if you took this photo Mandingo, doesn't look clear enough to be from your quality sets, but I found it on another forum and thought it was an awesome angle nevertheless. Turn one looks bizarre.

Not my photo, but thanks for the compliment!

[mandingo]

Here are some nice new photos taken near dusk yesterday & posted by my buddy while I was out karting:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7614878&type=1





Road to future helipads:



Not sure what's going on here with some pretty big holes being dug on the track itself.





Turn 11 berm:

[mandingo]

Just heard talk that GA will be divided up.

$#@!shitpisscocksucker.

Also, I haven't been out there today, but I wonder if they're still flying people (likely potential investors) around the place at the frenzied pace they were for at least two days earlier this week.

[utee94]

Well Sooner, you're wwelcome to tailgate with my son & his crowd by their rented RV on my property. You'll have 25 acres to $#@!/piss on at your leisure.

Hey AB, now that we know entrance and egress are likely to be a complete cluster for the first year at least, I really am interested in seeing if you're willing to let me set up my RV on your property for the weekend. It's an odd ask for sure since you don't know me personally, but I'd be happy to meet you in real life and buy you many beers and food in order to become your new best friend. You're also welcome to come to our football tailgate parties any time you like, we have Live Oak Brewery as a sponsor and the beer flows freely.

I figure if you're willing to let an Okie come out, an Austin-born Longhorn should be okay too right?

[Hefeweizen]

The holes in the track would most likely be compacted base that was tested and found not to meet specifications for density or moisture content. I can only imagine the tightness of those specs on this dog$#@! soil in Elroy.

[mandingo]

So I finally got to talk to a COTA sales rep yesterday. Most of what he said was stuff I had heard before. A couple of things did stand out though.

- 5-6 events/year. F1 & AV8SC secured. Maybe someday MotoGP, ALMS, Rolex

- There will be other reserved (non-PSL) GSs around the track

- Only those who buy 4 or more PSLs will have the opportunity to purchase annual parking passes for $150-200/year.

- 2 offsite parking locations

- Roads blocked 2 miles out to all but buses and vehicles with parking passes. (Question that just came to me: How much will they charge motorcylists?)

- Said there would be 6 days of racing this year. I asked what there would be this season besides F1. He said AV8SC. I answered that they aren't coming this year. He said "COTA's season will run from this fall to next spring". Seriously. He said that.

- Camping: still waiting on a decision expected in 2-3 weeks. Also considering offsite camping locations.

- RV spot availability & pricing: still waiting on a decision expected in 2-3 weeks.

- Lots of answers in the vein of "Not sure if that decision is final" and "2-3 weeks"...presumably when the answer is actually "No".

[VoodooChi|d]

And boom goes the dynamite. Asphalt finally being put down.

[vicerous]

And boom goes the dynamite. Asphalt finally being put down.

$#@!. Yes.

[mandingo]

Here are some more photos we shot today, including some from up above T1.

http://s1219.photobucket.com/albums/...on%205-1-2012/

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7614878&type=1

[tokamak]

Pardon my ignorance, but in reading that Statesman article on the design of the track, it seems like every single turn or sequence of turns is modeled on some other F1 circuit. Like the whole thing is just snippets of other tracks pasted together. I don't know why, but that's a little disappointing to me. Are there any features that are going to be unique to Austin?

[mandingo]

Pardon my ignorance, but in reading that Statesman article on the design of the track, it seems like every single turn or sequence of turns is modeled on some other F1 circuit. Like the whole thing is just snippets of other tracks pasted together. I don't know why, but that's a little disappointing to me. Are there any features that are going to be unique to Austin?

Sure.

Some people tend to make it sound like this circuit has nothing original to offer, but that isn't the case. There are a few features I don't think you'll see anywhere else.

The start is slightly uphill turning to a steep uphill climb in very short order. T1 at the RedBull Ring is similar to COTA's T1 in that it has an uphill approach, but that's where the similarity ends. T2 will be a moderate to high-speed sharp righthander with a steep downhill approach. The 8-9-10 complex will be awesome. It will test the engineers & the blind apex of turn 10 will test driver skill. The very long, subtly curved back (Longhorn) straight may not be utterly unique, but it's different, being almost all downhill, with a downhill braking zone into 12. The T15-18 triple apex righthander is inspired by Istanbul's Turn 8 quadruple apex lefthander, but it's faster, and the 2nd half is downhill to the sharp lefthand downhill kink of Turn 19, which will no doubt catch a few people out here and there.