American Choppers

[jtk1519]

I haven't watched this show in years, but I'm flipping through the channels and I see this Jr. vs. Sr. stuff. What the hell happened? I see that Vinny left OCC years ago and something happened between Jr. and Sr. and Jr. either quit or was fired. Now Jr. is starting up his own chopper shop. I have no idea what the hell is going on, but Sr. sure looks like a $#@! right now talk all kinds of $#@! about his own kid. That must have been one helluva falling out between them.

[TexasIsBetter]

i was wondering the same thing. i saw the commercial while watching discovery and was wondering what happened. i don't really blame him, his dad always seemed like a giant $#@!.

[whickums]

I googled it because I was mildly curious and bored.

Hide Paul Jr. leaves Orange County Choppers

Following regular disagreements with his father, Paul Jr. was fired from the shop in late 2008. In January 2009, TLC served a notice of default due to Paul, Jr.'s absence. Paul, Jr. then returned to OCC briefly as a contractor, but left finally in April 2009 in order to start his own design firm, Paul Jr. Designs.[1]. Paul, Sr. then exercised a contractual option to purchase Paul, Jr.'s 20% share in OCC, and subsequently filed a lawsuit to force the buyout. The case remains ongoing while a valuation of OCC is performed.[2]

Paul, Jr. started a new non-motorcycle design company, Paul Jr. Designs. After a one year non-compete clause ended, Paul, Jr. opened a motorcycle shop in April 2010. TLC then commissioned a 7th series titled "American Chopper: Senior vs. Junior" which will feature both OCC and Paul Jr. Designs.[3]

[whickums]

I think I also read that jr recruited some of the staff who used to work for occ for his new competing business.

[NCAAFBALLROX]

I think Vinnie joined "Jr" (who, BTW, isn't a "full" junior as he has a different middle name).

Some of the $#@! that goes on in that show, like shooting pipes @ high pressure through the office doors & destroying things, I just don't understand. Granted, I work on construction sites where good natured jabbing & conversation goes on all the time, but we don't tear up our tools or the equipment (& especially the project site).

I only watch reruns on late night TV, but I recall seeing the episode where they built a bike for a viewer; it was called "Corporal Punishment". Sr. was really a $#@! on this show - he wanted every single piece to be off the shelf & fast / easy. No $$ to be made from a giveaway bike? Slap it together & move on. In the end, Jr. had a custom seat made & they hand fabbed the handlebars & I think the pipes as well as a few other pieces.

[Sooner2483]

Much like Tiger Woods and Hank Haney, those two are dysfunctional together.

[El Guapo]

Yeah, it was an interesting show for a while but somewhere along the line they started just randomly tearing up stuff for no reason. I mean real hardcore destruction like ripping doors off the hinges, crashing equipment, shooting holes in the wall, on purpose. Sr. was often the instigator, which made no sense because he was always so anal about keeping things clean. Then last year they had the inevitable falling out (three sons now don't speak to Sr., which should tell you something), and a much ballyhooed "Series Finale". Then I'm flipping channels last week and saw a new episode getting ready to air. I don't know. Kinda like that crazy woman with the 8 kids - even though the show ended she seems to have a "Kate + 8" special once a month.

btw, I've been to their showroom and those custom bikes are actually more impressive in person. Even HDTV doesn't do justice to the paint job and detail work.

[MP5]

Seemed to me Jr was the talent. Sr was a kit bike assembler and Jr was more custom.

[kevwun]

Senior really is a $#@!. I don't understand how he can talk so much $#@! about his own kids and to run them down in front of his own employees so often is really pathetic. The bald guy named Mike is always eager to get Senior talking trash about them. He's such an ass kiss. I'm glad Vinnie is back, the show was never the same after he left. I hope Paulie's new shop does good enough where he can hire Rick away from Senior. Good luck with building even quasi-original bikes without Rick. Maybe then they can cut out an entire bike on the 5 axis machine from one giant block of aluminum.

[Luke Duke]

I took a hiatus from the show for a while and I started watching it again this season. I hope Jr. gets some business real soon, since it will drive Sr. nuts.

[Sparky]

I got real bored with it because it was the same every week. Have watched the first two episodes this season and it has something. Senior only wants to sit around and brag about how he started his business from the ground and Jr got everything handed to him. It's interesting to watch Jr build out his shop and hustle for business. If he could finally start building a bike it will get good.

[kevwun]

What bothered me the most about Senior in last night's episode was the rant about Paulie going after "his" vendors. Why wouldn't he call up tool makers and ask them if they'd give him a machine or tools in exchange for free advertising? Is he not supposed to have a flo-jet machine just because you do? Senior has an ego that rivals Roger Clemens. I can't wait until his trophy wife divorces him and takes half his $#@!.

[Catpfish]

The show the week before had them getting into it on a radio show Mikey was sitting in on. Apparently, the 20% buyout the Senior is about to try and court enforce on Junior has been valued at practically $0.00 by Senior and his accountants. That's the reason Jr won't sell. I think the next two episodes are going to be involving the court case. Senior does seem like a $#@!, what creativity does he ever show besides being smart enough to hire talented people? Mike Amoratti (spelling?) always seemed like a yes-man troll. I would love to see Rick go over to Junior but I'm guessing Senior is going to tie him up with a non-compete (if he hasn't already).

[Sii]

ive always liked this show and kept up with it for the most part. missed some time here and there

they had a huge blowup back then when Jr left. things were pretty bad for awhile...they werent even talking etc. I remember Mikey trying to get a meeting with Sr and JR to work things out but it seems they never could work anything out. both stood their ground

watching this whole thing unfold I'm def pulling for Jr. I hope his new business kicks ass. Sr just doesnt have the design creativity Jr does. Before they were cranking out designs on computers and mass production Jr was a badass with many of those earlier bikes

[MNLonghorn10]

i havent watched these guys since they were on discovery when it used to be monster garage, monster house then to american chopper...i miss the monster shows.

[spystud13]

Junior's gf is pretty freaking hot. He better get a build real quick, cause that's a lot of $ just sitting around chilling.

Mikey is still completely worthless.



And MN, I agree about "Monster House"... Couldn't imagine being a neighbor of one of those finished houses, though.

[NCAAFBALLROX]

& BTW, I don't recall where I heard it, but from a couple of sources it seems that the full on 'custom' bikes they build really wouldn't hold up to more than a couple of hundred miles per year; drive them for a post build test run & then turn into trailer queens... display only, thanks.

I don't know if it's the frame welding, the suspension setup or what, but the idea is that they are barely functioning art more than anything else.

On the Corporal Punishment winning viewer bike, I recall Jr. saying something to the effect of "this bike is a bit different than our custom rides because we are putting in functioning turn lights, speedo, fuel guage, oil pressure, etc" whereas the concept bikes usually get a speedo, fuel guage & MPH, + a light & brakes.

[tx 3 putt]

I think Vinnie joined "Jr" (who, BTW, isn't a "full" junior as he has a different middle name).

Vinnie has his own shop, I think V Force bikes or something.

[ldogg53]

The show the week before had them getting into it on a radio show Mikey was sitting in on. Apparently, the 20% buyout the Senior is about to try and court enforce on Junior has been valued at practically $0.00 by Senior and his accountants. That's the reason Jr won't sell. I think the next two episodes are going to be involving the court case. Senior does seem like a $#@!, what creativity does he ever show besides being smart enough to hire talented people? Mike Amoratti (spelling?) always seemed like a yes-man troll. I would love to see Rick go over to Junior but I'm guessing Senior is going to tie him up with a non-compete (if he hasn't already).

yeah... that was total bull$#@!... Sr has an appraiser value their company at $0 and tries to force Paulie into the buyout... then in a classic move Paulie says, "ok.. then sell me your 80% for $0"

the show sucked after the first couple of years... but this fight is actually pretty entertaining..

[spystud13]

Vinnie has his own shop, I think V Force bikes or something.

Have you even seen the new show?! Vinnie has most definitely joined Junior, whether he has his own shop or not...

[GraciePie]

Vinnie has his own shop, I think V Force bikes or something.

I don't think that worked out for him, I saw some commercial for the new American Chopper season advertising that Vance had returned to team up with Jr.

[kevwun]

V-Force is listed on the partner page on Paulie's website, so maybe it still exists in some form. It's website is still up and has some stuff about the new show on it also.

[jtk1519]

Vinnie has joined Jr. I watched the show last night where Jr. offered him a job and Vinnie accepted. Like I said, I haven't watched the show in years, but Vinnie always struck me as the guts of the operation. Jr. was the design man, Sr. did nothing but bark and Vinnie was there from dusk to dawn actually building the bike.

I never took sides in the show back when I watched it because I could see where Sr. was coming from and where Jr. was coming from, but ultimately it looked like they had a good relationship, but I was really put off with Sr. watching the show last night. He was talking trash about his kids in front of his employees. At one point he made a quip about how much weight Mike had put on. To say stuff like that around employees when you know you have cameras on you, that rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm rooting for Jr. now. He's a helluva design man and Vinnie just seemed like a good, hard working guy. OCC will still put out good bikes because Sr. still has Rick on staff and Rick is both the brains and hard work at OCC, but if Sr. loses Rick, God help him. Especially if Rick leaves to join Jr. and Vinnie. Sr. might have a heart attack.

[kevwun]

I know he's working with Paul Jr, but I'm not sure V-Force is out of business. It's website is still active.

I used to be neutral also. Mikey doesn't really do anything and Paulie being late all the time would aggravate me also, but over time Senior just started being a $#@! for no reason. He was picking fights with Paulie on purpose about stupid $#@!. He's been horrible since Jr left. Talking $#@! about your kids on camera is pretty despicable. I could see if just one son didn't get along with him, but it's all 3.

I still like Rick though. He seems like a really good dude. It was funny when he said last night that he wishes Jr and Vinnie luck and that he hopes it works out where they can all work together again. I think if Jr's shop proves stable, he'd jump to it in a heartbeat. He's the only guy at OCC who has never talked $#@! about Jr or Mikey since they left. He's seriously laid back. All the stuff that's gone on around him and I don't think I've ever seen him even raise his voice.

[Pablo]

Vinnie and Paullie were talking about getting shirts designed that said "Free Rick".

They joked that it would have a picture of Rick behind bars.

I am definitely on Jr.'s side here and hope his biz makes it.

[Sooner2483]

Paul Sr. Went full ruhtard last night, most definitely.

[ldogg53]

it's a TV show people... I'm sure Vinnie is keeping his own shop and is agreeing to work with Paulie when they have custom bikes to do for the show...

[spystud13]

Case closed (at least according to Wiki)...

In a radio interview in June 2010 Dimartino stated that he was going to work with Paul Teutul Jr again for the new American Chopper series (Sr. vs. Jr.) while still running V-Force.

[jt]

you guys hoping for junior to make it are going to be disappointed. that guy is not a hustler in any sense of the word. he's got a bunch of money from the show, so no motivation to truly get out there and bust ass.

as for the valuation of ooc at $0, i would bet it isn't that far off. they've gone through 2 (3?) expansions since the show started, the largest of which was right at the beginning of this economic downturn. who the $#@! is buying custom motorcycles these days? absolutely no one. they have a huge payroll, a ton of sq footage, a $#@!load of overhead on the parts/paint/frames/engines/etc...

[tx 3 putt]

no doubt, paul jr has no spark at all

[jt]

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...NEWS/706260312


Orange County Ironworks LLC on Stone Castle Road in Rock Tavern, the Teutuls’ other family business, has been accused of bankruptcy fraud.


By Michael Levensohn
Times Herald-Record
Published: 2:00 AM - 06/26/07
Last updated: 2:22 AM - 06/26/07
Document: Copy of legal complaint against the Teutuls

Poughkeepsie — Three members of the Teutul family of Orange County Choppers fame defrauded the creditors of their family's other business, according to a complaint filed Friday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

The complaint accuses Paul Teutul Sr. and his sons, Paul Teutul Jr. and Daniel Teutul, of engineering the fraudulent bankruptcy of O.C. Iron Works Inc. in order to avoid paying the company's creditors.=

The bankruptcy fraud complaint is similar to a civil lawsuit seeking monetary damages. The complaint doesn't name a dollar amount, but court papers suggest the Teutuls and the iron works business could be on the hook for $1.3 million or more if they lose.

The complaint is not related to Orange County Choppers, the reality television phenomenon that launched the Teutuls to stardom. Instead, it focuses on the steel fabrication and erection business Paul Teutul Sr. built before he started building bikes.

According to court papers, Paul Teutul Sr. transferred that business to Paul Teutul Jr. The business was called O.C. Iron Works. Paul Sr. continued to serve as a consultant.

Paul Jr. then sold the assets of the business to Orange County Ironworks LLC, which is owned by his brother, Daniel Teutul.

According to the complaint filed by Bankruptcy Trustee Tom Genova, the Teutuls systematically moved the equipment, employees, accounts and other assets of the steel fabrication business O.C. Iron Works to a new company, Orange County Ironworks LLC, but the new company didn't pay fair compensation. The Teutuls then had O.C. Iron Works file for bankruptcy, leaving creditors out in the cold.

The complaint also names Orange County Ironworks LLC as a defendant.

The lawyer representing Daniel Teutul and his company, Orange County Ironworks LLC, said in an interview yesterday that the sale between the two brothers' businesses did not involve any fraud.

"The assets weren't moved. They were purchased," said Terry Devine.

But the complaint suggests the sale was executed to protect the family business from a costly judgment in a lawsuit brought by Turner Construction. Turner is one of the nation's largest builders and the construction manager for the new Yankee Stadium.


In 2003, O.C. Iron Works agreed to supply steel to Turner for a school Turner was building in Queens. According to court papers filed by Turner, O.C. Iron Works notified Turner in November 2003 that it wasn't able to perform the required work.

Turner terminated the contract. The company was forced to find a new steel supplier, resulting in delays in the school project and added expense.

In early 2004, Turner sued O.C. Iron Works.

The Teutuls then devised a scheme to divert the assets of O.C. Iron Works to the new company, Orange County Ironworks LLC, "and thereby hinder, delay and defraud the creditors of the debtor, including Turner," according to the trustee's complaint.

To the outside world, the two companies might have been indistinguishable. They did business under the same name and at the same addresses, and used the same phone number. The new company took on numerous customers of the old company.

Daniel Teutul subcontracted the work from the new company to the old company, and set the prices low enough to ensure that the new company made a profit, the complaint claims.

As checks came in from customers of the old company, they were deposited into the new company's accounts.

O.C. Iron sold its equipment to the new company based on appraised values the trustee claims were too low.

In late 2004, the Teutuls moved the employees of O.C. Iron Works over to the new company, and O.C. Iron Works stopped doing business. The transition was essentially complete.

On June 23, 2005, the New York State Appellate Division sided with Turner in its suit against O.C. Iron Works. Two weeks later, on July 6, O.C. Iron Works filed for bankruptcy. The filing, under Chapter 7 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, called for the company's assets to be liquidated and the proceeds distributed to creditors.


But the Teutuls had already cleaned the place out, leaving crumbs for the creditors, according to Genova's complaint.

O.C. Iron Works' bankruptcy filing listed $596,520.09 in assets, but that sum consisted almost entirely of accounts receivable — money the company was owed, but hadn't been able to collect.

The company's debts, meanwhile, were roughly $667,000, not counting the $1.3 million judgment owed to Turner.

In his complaint, Genova seeks to have the transfers from the old company to the new company judged fraudulent and set aside. He seeks to have the three Teutuls held personally liable for the value of the property conveyed from the old business to the new one.

Genova also asks the court to make the new company liable for the old company's debts.

Daniel Teutul's lawyer, Devine, suggested the timing of the sale and the Turner lawsuit was a coincidence.

"Dan desired to have his own business, and started his own business," Devine said. "The Choppers had taken off, and Paul, the son, who owned O.C. Iron Works Inc. "¦ wasn't interested in the iron works anymore."

The matter will play out in coming months in Bankruptcy Court in Poughkeepsie, where the O.C. Iron Works bankruptcy case is nearly 2 years old.

For now, Orange County Ironworks carries on at 27 Stone Castle Road in Rock Tavern, the address it used to share with O.C. Iron Works. Next door is the former headquarters of the Teutuls' more famous enterprise, Orange County Choppers.

Choppers relocated a few years ago to a bigger building in Montgomery, and construction is under way on the company's new "world headquarters" on Route 17K in the Town of Newburgh.

As big as Orange County Choppers has gotten, the Teutuls haven't forgotten their roots. Painted on the structural steel of the new headquarters is a massive advertisement for Orange County Ironworks.

[jt]

huh. i went to kindergarten in newburgh. my great grandfather owned a department store downtown.

[NCAAFBALLROX]

By Michael Levensohn
Times Herald-Record
Published: 2:00 AM - 06/26/07
Last updated: 2:22 AM - 06/26/07
Document: Copy of legal complaint against the Teutuls

Got anything on that in the past 3 years?

[jt]

i was merely pointing out the scandalous nature of the family rox. you know, dirt.

[jt]

but since you asked and i am bored, i googled and astonishingly, have found something more recent for you. it's even short, so you can make it all the way to the end.

Published by Cyril Huze March 12th, 2010 in Builders, Customs, Editorial and Events.

Regarding the lawsuit opposing father & son, Justice Lewis Lubell gave yesterday both parties 60 days to resolve themselves all conflicting issues out of court. He asked them “if they want to continue draining money on lawyers or work out their differences like gentlemen?”

Paul Teutul Junior was fired by his father and the agreement signed at the time appears to the judge to be very ambiguous and subject to multiple interpretations (lawyers fault?). The different is about the real value of Orange County Choppers and the financial share going to each party.

Senior asked for a court-appointed appraiser to determine the true market value of the company. Junior, in a counter lawsuit states that OCC is mismanaged and asked the court to have a receiver named to run the company. Paul Junior request was denied by the judge but authorized him to have full access to the company records and accountants. I agree with the judge that a business different between a father and son who both participated to its success should be, as much as possible, be resolved out of court. Family first. Next round in 60 days. Orange County Choppers

http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2010/03...-out-of-court/

[Sii]

you guys hoping for junior to make it are going to be disappointed

maybe but if there is something he can do its build bikes. now that he is free to do that I would be shocked if they dont turn out some pretty sweet stuff

Jr was a huge part of some of those great bikes that really put OCC on the map and putting out some top quality stuff (even if the company is no where near the size of OCC considering its a start up) is a way he can actually hit back at Sr that will actually leave a mark. just from the first two episodes its pretty clear Sr is trying to play off Jr opening a shop but deep down it bothers him big time

[TankedBevo]

Vinny's always been my favorite. He goes in, does his job building badass bikes, then goes home. No drama, no bull$#@!. I'm convinced half of Jr's "custom" cycles are in fact Vinny's concoctions.

[NCAAFBALLROX]

i was merely pointing out the scandalous nature of the family rox. you know, dirt.

OK. I can dig that.

but since you asked and i am bored, i googled and astonishingly, have found something more recent for you. it's even short, so you can make it all the way to the end.

Oh, I read it all... Outside of Mr. Wizard's BS awhile back, I @ least scan the long ones (but since I'm interested in this topic more than a little bit, I read it all).

Vinny's always been my favorite. He goes in, does his job building badass bikes, then goes home. No drama, no bull$#@!. I'm convinced half of Jr's "custom" cycles are in fact Vinny's concoctions.

I have a buddy that used to be a saddle maker @ Capitol here in Austin; they got approached about 4 years ago (maybe a bit longer) to do a "reality show". I explained to him that they didn't give a $#@! about how the saddles were made & what stamp he was using or who the saddle was for... they wanted arguments between him & the guy who ran the store, bits of the owner coming in & $#@!ing things up for 1/2 a day while they grumble about him the rest of the time, etc.

Show didn't go past whatever discussions were initially started out, I guess.

I liked Vinny as well.

[jt]

Teutuls settle fraud case, agreeing to pay $550K to bankruptcy trustee

By Michael Levensohn
Times Herald-Record
Published: 2:00 AM - 12/10/08

POUGHKEEPSIE — The first family of Orange County Choppers will pay $550,000 to settle fraud allegations under a pair of agreements approved Tuesday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

Under one of the settlements, Daniel Teutul and Orange County Ironworks LLC — another family business — will pay $500,000 to Tom Genova, the trustee in the bankruptcy case of O.C. Iron Works, a defunct former family business. Paul Teutul Sr. and Paul Teutul Jr. will pay Genova $50,000 in a separate deal covering the same allegations.

Genova said the settlements will provide enough cash to cover the administrative costs associated with the bankruptcy case and pay about 50 cents on the dollar to O.C. Iron Works' unsecured creditors.

The case is not related to "Orange County Choppers," the Teutuls' hit reality television show. Instead, it focuses on the steel fabrication and erection business Paul Teutul Sr. ran before he began building bikes.

The Rock Tavern business has operated under several names over the years, with Paul Teutul Sr. and two of his sons, Paul Teutul Jr. and Daniel Teutul, each serving roles.

In 2005, O.C. Iron Works filed for bankruptcy. In June 2007, Genova filed a complaint in Bankruptcy Court claiming that the Teutuls undertook a scheme to defraud the company's creditors.

According to the complaint, during 2004, the Teutuls systematically moved the equipment, employees, accounts and other assets of O.C. Iron Works to a new company, Orange County Ironworks LLC, but the new company didn't pay fair compensation. The Teutuls then had O.C. Iron Works file for bankruptcy in 2005, leaving creditors out in the cold.

The settlements prevent the case from going to trial, and comes after several months of pretrial discovery and negotiation. The Teutuls and Orange County Ironworks LLC did not admit any wrongdoing.

The deals include gag orders, and lawyers representing the various parties declined to comment Tuesday.

[jt]

i can't find anything about sr suing jr recently, so maybe that's all for the show? i know i haven't watched it at all over the last couple of years. it's no fun watching rich people argue. cooler when they are becoming successful than when they are.

[ldogg53]

as for the valuation of ooc at $0, i would bet it isn't that far off. they've gone through 2 (3?) expansions since the show started, the largest of which was right at the beginning of this economic downturn. who the $#@! is buying custom motorcycles these days? absolutely no one. they have a huge payroll, a ton of sq footage, a $#@!load of overhead on the parts/paint/frames/engines/etc...

Oh I understand the concept... but it's still bull$#@!... if they actually tried to sell OCC, the business, someone or some group would probably offer them millions for it... Sr and Jr both know it and that is why this is in court... there is value in the business and the brand... and if they say there isn't then I'm sure there are no shortage of people who would take it off their hands..

[NCAAFBALLROX]

American Chopper On August 20, 2010, Paul Teutul Jr. and Rachael Biester were married at Bonnet Island Estate in NJ in an intimate wedding attended by 135 close family and friends. Senior was invited but was not in attendance. Rachael's dress, as seen on TLC's SAY YES TO THE DRESS, was by Pnina Tornai from Kleinfeld. Paul's suit was custom-made, also from Kleinfeld. The big gift of the night was a new Mercedes "G Wagon" from Paul to Rachael. The evening was followed by an after-party on the veranda featuring a live acoustic-guitar performance.

From FaceBook.

[DigglerontheHoof]

The whole Jr. v Sr. thing seems to be little more than contrived TV drama to me, but whatever.

[jimmyjazz]

The whole Jr. v Sr. thing seems to be little more than contrived TV drama to me, but whatever.

Absolutely. It's television. And their show bikes usually look like ass. I'm sure they can build a good bike when they want to, and trying to incorporate Darth Vader's helmet into a milled aluminum wheel is probably tough, but they're the ones on TV building cartoon motorcycles. I liked that show where 2 legendary builders would go head to head on real bikes much better.

[jtk1519]

The whole Jr. v Sr. thing seems to be little more than contrived TV drama to me, but whatever.

If the old man isn't attending his own son's wedding, that's probably a good sign that the animosity is legit.

[kevwun]

along with the lawsuits

[DigglerontheHoof]

Yet they were somehow talked into doing another TV show together. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that by the end of the season everyone is bff again.

[Sii]

Absolutely. It's television. And their show bikes usually look like ass. I'm sure they can build a good bike when they want to, and trying to incorporate Darth Vader's helmet into a milled aluminum wheel is probably tough, but they're the ones on TV building cartoon motorcycles. I liked that show where 2 legendary builders would go head to head on real bikes much better.

The bikes OCC builds now are computer designed and churned out pretty fast it seems for max profit. When the shop was smaller and Junior was the one heavily involved in the design (before that computer geek Jason was around) the bikes were pretty bad ass. The firemans bike..the black widow bike etc. I'm hoping Jr gets his shop off the ground because I think they would turn out better bikes than OCC

I think the feud between Jr and Senior is very real. didnt go to the wedding...suing his own son..etc The father doesnt really have much of a relationship with any of his sons so not a shock. He's an $#@!

there is something thats going to happen soon in one of the episodes Ive read that has Sr reach out a bit but I dont want to give away a spoiler

[jtk1519]

Yet they were somehow talked into doing another TV show together. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that by the end of the season everyone is bff again.

For money. From what I have read, Jr. was pretty much forced by his contract with TLC to come back after he quit/was fired from OCC.

I hope they are all bff by the end of the season, but to think that what has aired so far and what has been reported is fake is a pretty big stretch.

[ldogg53]

For money. From what I have read, Jr. was pretty much forced by his contract with TLC to come back after he quit/was fired from OCC.

I hope they are all bff by the end of the season, but to think that what has aired so far and what has been reported is fake is a pretty big stretch.

I don't think it's fake either..

and of course they're back on tv.. they get paid nicely for that.. and Paulie needs all the exposure he can get to have his shop and brand take off...