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Thread: Lennon or McCartney?

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    Lennon or McCartney?

    http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/cha...-john-or-paul/

    McCartney is my favorite of all time. Lennon is a close second. (Mozart is third. Freddie Mercury is fourth.)

    But this is a Lennon or McCcartney question. I was 12 in 1964 and the Beatles rocked my world, and everybody else's.

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    George Harrison


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    FU for mentioning McCartney in direct comparison to Lennon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tasmaniac View Post
    George Harrison

    You know Clapton had to play the studio album right?

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    I'm partial to Paul but it's not hard to argue that John's music made more of an impact and was more meaningful to the progression of music. That said, my favorite Beatles song is a George song (I Want To Tell You).
    Last edited by mdmost; 08-27-2010 at 09:48 PM.

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    Regarding the OP, I'm a McCartney man


  7. #7
    Tough call. Just watched Nowhere Boy last night. According to the film, Lennon was truly the driving force behind its beginning. So, I'm going with Lennon. Dude also had a damn tough upbringing. However, I think you have to deduct points on wasting his celebrity status on Yoko. Da-yum.

  8. #8
    McCartney no contest.

    Wings > Yoko collaborations

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    Have you been neg repped yet? You know, since there are already threads about The Beatles (and for putting this in Bada Bing instead of Hole in the Wall)?

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    The best Beatles song ("Strawberry Fields Forever") is a John song, but it's pretty even, IMO. Paul gets bonus points for Wings. Call it John by a nose.

    I love me some George songs, as well. "Within You Without You" is in my Beatles top 3.

  11. #11
    Ringo should get credit for having the hottest wife - Barbara Bach.

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    Lennon then Harrison then McCartney.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
    Lennon then Harrison then McCartney.
    Logic, thank you for hasing it.

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    Lennon or McCartney?

    Red Five is correct.

  15. #15
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    Lennon, and it's not close.

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    The tortured existentialist or the sentimental dreamer? I'll take their collaborative works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VRHorn View Post
    Lennon, and it's not close.
    Yeah, this. I cringe every time I hear a Wings song now. Those really haven't "aged" well.

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    My 2 year old already sided with John which is a departure from her parents since we're both Paul people. She can wear out Imagine. She's oddly fascinated with Mother which is a little disturbing given the subject matter.

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    Lennon. The song "Help" was transformative for both the group and rock music as a whole. Out went sweetness and light and fluff and in came real human emotional themes. The song is also more sophisticated musically, fully engaging the services of George Martin. That being said, my alltime favorite Beatle song is a "Day in the Life" with John writing the first half and Paul writing the second half.

  20. #20
    Apples and Oranges. But that's what made them so good together. It's awesome that George had the best solo album out of the three.

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    Lennon by a mile for me but everybody has an opinion. I like McCartney too but much more selectively. I had most of the Beatles albums as I was born in the 60's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tokamak View Post
    The best Beatles song ("Strawberry Fields Forever") is a John song, but it's pretty even, IMO. Paul gets bonus points for Wings. Call it John by a nose.

    I love me some George songs, as well. "Within You Without You" is in my Beatles top 3.
    I pretty much agree with everything here.

  23. #23
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    Ray Coleman's Lennon Biography is pretty decent. Pretty much straight down the line, incredibly full of great info. From it and other sources we learn:

    - John did have a number of life shocks (like his mom getting hit by a car and killed almost outside his house), but he actually had a pretty solid financial upbringing; his Aunt Mimi was fairly well off and John didn't want for much as a kid;
    - Paul, while not dirt poor, was decidedly less financially well off than John; he, too lost his mother at an early age (I think he was 10 or so) and had his own set of shocks;
    - Interestingly, John never seemed at first to be jealous of Paul; he knew instantly that Paul was the better all-around musician and had a better voice, yet he respected him and also admired how Paul apparently didn't defer or fawn to him in their first meetings... this was crucial to their collaborations.
    - Paul had already had a reputation as a decent player around his section of Liverpool by age 15; John knew he was getting a prime free agent.
    - Paul liked how John could do some rockabilly stuff and admired his wit.

    So at first both boys entered into an easygoing relationship; John reserved his scathing put-downs with Paul while Paul found his easily-disinterested tendencies easy to put aside with John. Their early songwriting was truly collaborative - John would have a line, Paul would fill in a word (or vice-versa), Paul would have a melody line and John would tweak it... it was really Lennon/McCartney, very intertwined. And would remain so for the first 2-3 years.

    For me the Beatles as I remember them most are the early Beatles (pre-1965). While Sgt. Pepper's and their later stuff is often sublime music, I am very thankful I was alive (though a pissant on an elephant) to see their U.S. debut and the atmosphere surrounding it. Although I barely remember it, there is nothing that comes close to it in my lifetime. The look, the sound, I don't know why but almost anyone who didn't experience it firsthand will not quite understand. I mean we had kids drawing pictures of them on schoolbooks, talking about them while riding bikes, it was just incredible. I can truly point to an almost exact paradigm shift of "old America" of the social themes of Depression and Gilded Age (and before) thought, and "contemporary, progressive" or a more zestful and progressive culture... I believe those of us in 1964 who saw the Beatles lived on, and recognize, this huge, colossal Time Fault Line. There is a way life was "before" and the way it was "after" all the way to now. And that was the moment. Right there. When the entire cultural perspective changed. I still don't know if they caused it or rode its wave. But it's right there. I distinctly remember a more rural, old-fashioned Andy Griffith world before the Beatles, then it all changed, and in nuclear proportions.

    Understanding that, and the huge metamorphasis they went through in their 8 world-public years (then beyond as soloists), my lot falls with Paul for two reasons:
    first, I liked his more subtle, melodic tunes... just how it sits with me... second, Paul had a presence that was just colossal to me.

    None of this negates John - clearly he was the band's leader, order giver, and transitional figure into 60's rock. Once his song personality was established (by Rubber Soul I guess) his harder edge was distinctive. But I guess for me the Beatles are an image locked into my mind's eye and ear.... and for that Paul is just more my type of musician.
    Last edited by phdhorn; 08-28-2010 at 01:38 PM.

  24. #24
    Neither. The Beatles were perhaps the most overrated musical act of the 20th century. They just came along at the right time and place, when all the baby boomers began coming of age. The early pop stuff was OK. The later stuff sounded like they were either trying too hard, or they couldn't finish a single decent song so they just hammered two unfinished songs together and called it a single.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagnut View Post
    Neither. The Beatles were perhaps the most overrated musical act of the 20th century. They just came along at the right time and place, when all the baby boomers began coming of age. The early pop stuff was OK. The later stuff sounded like they were either trying too hard, or they couldn't finish a single decent song so they just hammered two unfinished songs together and called it a single.
    Of course you're entitled to your opinion but it's like saying aggy will win the Big 12 this year. Ill-informed and not based on rationality. Good luck with that.

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    with all the options they had, they both were so fucking stupid when it came to women that it is hard for me to judge them on any other criteria

    but I would give the nod to lennon if I had to have a goto guy....but Paul ended up living longer so he wins the luckier than John award as consolation

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by msbesq View Post
    Of course you're entitled to your opinion but it's like saying aggy will win the Big 12 this year. Ill-informed and not based on rationality. Good luck with that.
    Don't confuse irrationally predicting the future with a realistic review of the past.

    Here's a prediction for you. 100 years from now, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin will be more likely to be considered "classical" music than the Beatles. The Beatles, while they were innovative and brought some new ideas to music making, put out a lot of stupid or downright shitty music. They are like Mike Leach compared to Mack Brown. They had a few bright spots and caused a lot of desperate people to think positively and have hope, but in reflection their body of work is generally shit.

    Which brings me to my next comparison. Baby Boomers are a lot like sand aggys....

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    Lennon was too granola for me, but I can't stand Paul's post-Beatles work. Therefore, I'll have to vote for GH as well.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagnut View Post
    Don't confuse irrationally predicting the future with a realistic review of the past.

    Here's a prediction for you. 100 years from now, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin will be more likely to be considered "classical" music than the Beatles. The Beatles, while they were innovative and brought some new ideas to music making, put out a lot of stupid or downright shitty music. They are like Mike Leach compared to Mack Brown. They had a few bright spots and caused a lot of desperate people to think positively and have hope, but in reflection their body of work is generally shit.

    Which brings me to my next comparison. Baby Boomers are a lot like sand aggys....
    You are aware Zeppelin had a few songs that referenced the Lord of the Rings Trilogy and songs with pan flutes and that Pink Floyd had songs that consisted of women shrieking, right? Zeppelin and Pink Floyd also made shitty music. They also made a lot of impactful music. Just like the Beatles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 244335 View Post
    Lennon was too granola for me, but I can't stand Paul's post-Beatles work. Therefore, I'll have to vote for GH as well.
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    Lennon or McCartney?

    Paul could have won this argument going away if he hadn't been secretly replaced with a double.

    (ducks)

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    Quote Originally Posted by numbereleven View Post
    Paul could have won this argument going away if he hadn't been secretly replaced with a double.

    (ducks)
    Giggle. Paul is dead, miss him, miss him, miss him.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by no_chingas View Post
    Ringo should get credit for having the hottest wife - Barbara Bach.
    I too have always been a Ringo fan.

    He had the best sense of humor of the four.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdmost View Post
    Giggle. Paul is dead, miss him, miss him, miss him.

    yes number eleven you did good....always forget that this is cyborg Paul that got a landmark divorce settlement rammed up his bumhole

    Mdmost
    you giggling makes me giggle! go playfully rape the wife unit since she is off work today and the kids are napping!

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Knight View Post
    The tortured existentialist or the sentimental dreamer? I'll take their collaborative works.
    Exactly. The answer to this question depends on my mood. It does not follow that you can only like one of them and must therefore disparage the other.

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    I was gonna flame you for being gay but.. The guitar chords they played were actually complicated. Never realized that until my kids taught me to read music and I actually tried to play stuff right. I go along with the person who said they were complimentary. Couldn't have one without the other.

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    harrison > lencartney

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    Lennon. Although, All Things Must Pass is a personal favorite of mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armybrat View Post
    I too have always been a Ringo fan.

    He had the best sense of humor of the four.
    I've heard that Ringo was the guy pretty much keeping the thing together at times. Toward the end, the other 3 all hated each others' guts, but all loved Ringo.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Knight View Post
    The tortured existentialist or the sentimental dreamer? I'll take their collaborative works.
    a perfect description

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagnut View Post
    Which brings me to my next comparison. Baby Boomers are a lot like sand aggys....
    Yeah.


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    McCartney by far has the better musical chops. His melodies are just more interesting. Lennon is far more introspective and artsy. It really depends on what you value more.


    Personally, it's McCartney then Lennon for me.

    Honestly, I don't understand why George is always brought up in this discussion.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Justice, Sr. View Post
    Honestly, I don't understand why George is always brought up in this discussion.
    Because he was pretty fucking talented and doesn't get the recognition he deserves?

  44. #44
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    lyrically, Lennon by a landslide.

    musically, i'll take McCartney.

    they really were the perfect pairing.

    for me, "I'll Cry Instead" (off A Hard Day's Night) is when you really notice the difference between Lennon and McCartney lyrically. you start to see the tormented side of John.

    Last edited by Jive Turkey; 08-29-2010 at 11:15 AM.

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    Exhibit A.

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    (Paul) Got to admit it's getting better. It's getting better all the time. (John) Can't get any worse.

    That little part just sums their greatness up for me, as well as exactly who they were.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Vine View Post
    Yeah, this. I cringe every time I hear a Wings song now. Those really haven't "aged" well.
    Really? Live and Let Die? 1985? Sure they had some lousy songs as well, but those two in particular are very good rock songs.

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by phdhorn View Post
    Ray Coleman's Lennon Biography is pretty decent. Pretty much straight down the line, incredibly full of great info. From it and other sources we learn:

    - John did have a number of life shocks (like his mom getting hit by a car and killed almost outside his house), but he actually had a pretty solid financial upbringing; his Aunt Mimi was fairly well off and John didn't want for much as a kid;
    - Paul, while not dirt poor, was decidedly less financially well off than John; he, too lost his mother at an early age (I think he was 10 or so) and had his own set of shocks;
    - Interestingly, John never seemed at first to be jealous of Paul; he knew instantly that Paul was the better all-around musician and had a better voice, yet he respected him and also admired how Paul apparently didn't defer or fawn to him in their first meetings... this was crucial to their collaborations.
    - Paul had already had a reputation as a decent player around his section of Liverpool by age 15; John knew he was getting a prime free agent.
    - Paul liked how John could do some rockabilly stuff and admired his wit.

    So at first both boys entered into an easygoing relationship; John reserved his scathing put-downs with Paul while Paul found his easily-disinterested tendencies easy to put aside with John. Their early songwriting was truly collaborative - John would have a line, Paul would fill in a word (or vice-versa), Paul would have a melody line and John would tweak it... it was really Lennon/McCartney, very intertwined. And would remain so for the first 2-3 years.

    For me the Beatles as I remember them most are the early Beatles (pre-1965). While Sgt. Pepper's and their later stuff is often sublime music, I am very thankful I was alive (though a pissant on an elephant) to see their U.S. debut and the atmosphere surrounding it. Although I barely remember it, there is nothing that comes close to it in my lifetime. The look, the sound, I don't know why but almost anyone who didn't experience it firsthand will not quite understand. I mean we had kids drawing pictures of them on schoolbooks, talking about them while riding bikes, it was just incredible. I can truly point to an almost exact paradigm shift of "old America" of the social themes of Depression and Gilded Age (and before) thought, and "contemporary, progressive" or a more zestful and progressive culture... I believe those of us in 1964 who saw the Beatles lived on, and recognize, this huge, colossal Time Fault Line. There is a way life was "before" and the way it was "after" all the way to now. And that was the moment. Right there. When the entire cultural perspective changed. I still don't know if they caused it or rode its wave. But it's right there. I distinctly remember a more rural, old-fashioned Andy Griffith world before the Beatles, then it all changed, and in nuclear proportions.

    Understanding that, and the huge metamorphasis they went through in their 8 world-public years (then beyond as soloists), my lot falls with Paul for two reasons:
    first, I liked his more subtle, melodic tunes... just how it sits with me... second, Paul had a presence that was just colossal to me.

    None of this negates John - clearly he was the band's leader, order giver, and transitional figure into 60's rock. Once his song personality was established (by Rubber Soul I guess) his harder edge was distinctive. But I guess for me the Beatles are an image locked into my mind's eye and ear.... and for that Paul is just more my type of musician.
    Does anyone else read this in Christian Bale's "American Psycho" voice?

  49. #49
    asshat Guitarman grows his own roses Guitarman grows his own roses Guitarman grows his own roses Guitarman grows his own roses Guitarman's Avatar
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    John and it's not close.

    Help, Across the Universe, You've Got To Hide Your Love Away, Nowhere Man, In My Life, I am the Walrus, Tomorrow Never Knows, Don't Let Me Down, Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, A Day in the Life, Norwegian Wood, She Said She Said, Come Together, Ballad of John and Yoko, Dear Prudence and (post Beatles), Imagine and Give Peace a Chance. There are others that were more "pop" oriented from the Beatles early career, but these songs are genius and timeless.

    I'm a Beatles fan, so it's hard to do a black and white analysis and choose just one, but like many Beatles fans, I've given this much thought over the decades. And my decision is unequivocal: John.
    Last edited by Guitarman; 08-29-2010 at 05:01 PM.

  50. #50
    asshat tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak is a rep whore. tokamak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakahorn View Post
    Really? Live and Let Die? 1985? Sure they had some lousy songs as well, but those two in particular are very good rock songs.
    I don't care what anyone says, "Band on the Run" is a kickass song.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarman View Post
    John and it's not close.

    Help, Across the Universe, You've Got To Hide Your Love Away, Nowhere Man, In My Life, I am the Walrus, Tomorrow Never Knows, Don't Let Me Down, Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, A Day in the Life, Norwegian Wood, She Said She Said, Come Together, Ballad of John and Yoko, Dear Prudence and (post Beatles), Imagine and Give Peace a Chance. There are others that were more "pop" oriented from the Beatles early career, but these songs are genius and timeless.

    I'm a Beatles fan, so it's hard to do a black and white analysis and choose just one, but like many Beatles fans, I've given this much thought over the decades. And my decision is unequivocal: John.
    I don't think you can give "A Day in the Life" to Lennon alone.

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