Any SciFi or Fantasy book suggestions?

[Cluttered]

Yes, yes...Another one of those rare book threads.

I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions for the genres I mentioned in the thread title? I really enjoy those genres, but often feel like the quality of writing is subpar. I'm not a huge Tolkien fan...Too black/white...Too "typical fantasy tale" even if it created that typical fantasy tale.

What I'd love is something that has the dark tone of the Warhammer 40k universe but with more character development (not just the constant religion and battle you find in 40k).

Any suggestions?

[hobbes2702]

If you haven't read it (and I know a lot have) you need to read Ender's Game and the rest of the series. Great character development and a great story.

[DrManik]

If you haven't read it (and I know a lot have) you need to read Ender's Game and the rest of the series. Great character development and a great story.

I saw the title of this thread and clicked on it to post the exact same thing. Love this series. The Worthing Saga also by Orson Scott Card is another of my favorites.

[Taargus]

Read A Song of Ice and Fire by George RR Martin. Go, now.

[random horn]

Snow Crash
The Diamond Age
Neuromancer

[bernorange]

Try reading anything that won a Hugo or Nebula award.

[GraciePie]

Could always try the Dark Tower series.

[Viper]

Some good suggestions here. I'll second Enders Game and Snow Crash. I'd add some classics from Heinlein such as the moon is a harsh mistress and starship troopers (nothing like the movie). Then there's Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars trilogy if you like space. Or the years of rice and salt if you're interested in history and/or religion.
In alt history Turtledove is pretty much the most prolific. He has good stories and good knowledge but the writing can get a little stale if you read on of his 9+ book series.

[Cluttered]

Enders Game is one of my favorite books. Simply fantastic.

I've tried Dark Tower. Found it decent but it didn't keep my attention beyond the second book.

Even though I'm asking for recommendations, I'll make one...American Gods. Check it out.

[Hellraiser97]

I liked Enders Game, but not enough that I had any desire to read the others.

I've actually been wrestling with this a bit. I have primarily read Fantasy fiction (Dragonlance, LotR, Chronicles of Narnia, etc.). After getting burned out a bit on that (mainly because the writing in so many of they is so awful), I figured I'd switch to Sci-Fi. I read some Sci-Fi as a kid and enjoyed it (Mainly the Gateway series by Frederik Pohl), so I went and tried some of the classics:

1) Enders Game - as I said above, didn't do much for me.
2) Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? - Loved Blade Runner, but the book pretty much bored me.
3) Foundation trilogy - Barely made it through the first book as I hated the short story style of it, thought the second two were good, but not enough to keep reading when the 3rd book ended and it wasn't the 1000 years yet.
4) Best of 1954 Sci-Fi short stories (had it for some reason, so I read it) - some were good, some were bad, most I think were reflecting the environment of the 50's, so I had trouble relating.

I've also tried various of the Star Wars books. In general, I have found the writing awful (Cloak of Deception, Labyrnth of Evil, Rise of Lord Vader) or just boring (Ep 1 novelization). Death Star was ok, more from an interesting look at what was going on before it blew than anything else. The only one I really liked was the Ep 3 novelization which I think was supurb.

The thing is, I LOVE Sco-Fi movies and TV shows. They are by far my favorite genre. Yet I can't seem to find Sci-Fi books that I like reading and I'm not sure why.

[SydneyCarton]

Snow Crash
The Diamond Age
Neuromancer

What this guy said. I haven't read The Diamond Age, but Neal Stephenson is a witch. Snow Crash is obscenely good, as is his other works. I mentioned it awhile ago, but will still pimp until I die, is Gun, With Occasional Music by Jonatham Letham. Even more artsy than that is The Minotaur Takes a Cigarette Break, but it's more philosophical. Another one is The Gone Away World, by Nick Harkaway. Really tremendous writing, about alternate futures mixed with Martial Arts. Sounds odd, but works.

I haven't been a huge honk for straight up fantasy and sci-fi for years, but a buddy I trust implicitly (gave me all the books above) tossed a copy of a book by Neal Asher, called Gridlinked, on my lap awhile ago. I haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but I wager it's solid as hell. It's more traditional Sci-Fi. I recently read The Magicians, which was a best seller, about a bunch of kids that go to a Hogwarts type school and $#@! around, but it was just OK. I read American Gods, by Neil Gaiman recently as well, and while everyone raves I was kind if disappointed. Again, another bestseller. When I was younger I read a lot of sci-fi and fantasy, and my favorites then were always David Eddings books. They're not really well written, they're basic, but they're super easy reads and they never failed to make me laugh, they have a good sense of comedy. If you want to Uber Dork it up, the Timmothy Zahn SW trilogy novels are about the only thing I've ever read that captures the true feeling of the actual SW Trilogy.

[SydneyCarton]

Read A Song of Ice and Fire by George RR Martin. Go, now.

I'm not reading that $#@! till that $#@! finishes the books.

[Math Mudrat]

"The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman, great, great book. Basically a sci-fi book about Vietnam

[Viper]

Yeah if you're gonna do star wars the way to go is the Jedi Academy trilogy and Heir to the Empire trilogy.

[Cluttered]

Sydney, I'll agree that books being a best seller or award winner mean absolutely nothing to me. There are some horrendous pieces of crap out there that a lot of people bought or won an award. For example...I can't stand Nelson Demille. I don't care how many books he has sold or how many fans he has. I don't think I've ever read more stilted and boring conversations between characters than the ones he writes.

What did you not like about American Gods? I pretty much like anything Neil Gaiman does. Love the concepts...Love the writing...Love the characters.

[Cluttered]

"The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman, great, great book. Basically a sci-fi book about Vietnam

This looks interesting. Is the character development better than something you find in the Warhammer 40k universe (if you've read those)?

[Cluttered]

In alt history Turtledove is pretty much the most prolific. He has good stories and good knowledge but the writing can get a little stale if you read on of his 9+ book series.

I've read quite a bit of Turtledove. The most interesting of his series is the Darkness series. It's really hard to keep track of everything, but, man, does he do a lot in those books. Also, in the same vein, the Lost Regiment series, by William Fortschen was great when I was a kid.

[misterloki]

Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn is a pretty good fantasy series that is actually finished.

Terry Pratchett's Discworld series are some of the funniest books in any genre.

Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos is good, but suffers from terrible cover art.

I will also throw out China Mieville and Joe Abercrombie as writers I enjoy.

I am currently reading The Passage which is more horror than SF, but I would recommend it anyway.

[SydneyCarton]

Sydney, I'll agree that books being a best seller or award winner mean absolutely nothing to me. There are some horrendous pieces of crap out there that a lot of people bought or won an award. For example...I can't stand Nelson Demille. I don't care how many books he has sold or how many fans he has. I don't think I've ever read more stilted and boring conversations between characters than the ones he writes.

What did you not like about American Gods? I pretty much like anything Neil Gaiman does. Love the concepts...Love the writing...Love the characters.

I didn't like American Gods because I thought it fell short. I had a couple conversations with friends, and we both generally agreed...the worlds Gaiman creates are fantastic. The concept was absolutely fantastic. I just didn't feel like he tied it together very well with what Shadow was doing all the time. Shadow never really finds a purpose, he just sort of meanders around, not knowing what the $#@! was going on the entire time, until the end, when he just sort of makes a decision, which is the equivalent of him shrugging him shoulders and saying "Why not?" He never really felt impassioned by what he was doing, really. It's just him wondering around in a small town, eating some food. Or him being generally confused. Same with the side stories. I could care less about his wife. She doesn't do anything either, doesn't have any kind of narrative arc. $#@!, the extent to which he explains her presence is "I feel forced to follow Shadow around, so I do." Ok, so, she's now just wondering around with no purpose? She's just kind of "there." I guess what I'm saying is he doesn't develop his characters much at all, they just kind of run into things and you don't learn much more about them than when he started writing.

What really disappointed me was the things he does really well, create these worlds, he didn't take advantage of. I wanted to learn more about the mythology, and how things work, and the limit of Wednesday's powers, and what the hell killed the Leprechaun when he lost "the coin," etc. The guy just winds up dead, and it's a thread never explored or resolved. And Shadow couldn't care less. It just felt like loose ends everywhere, and what I really wanted him to focus on more was this wold of the gods. Instead I got trudging indented chapters every few pages tracing the history of these gods in America and their history, which were mostly just weird and didn't contribute much, I thought. Its just "Oh, and there were sad gods trudging through the countryside" and then shadow would wake up, shrug his shoulders, and go eat breakfast. Tell me more about Low-Key, tell me more about Wednesday, Johnny Appleseed, etc. Explain something about some of their powers, and more about how they subsist.

Also, he's not a talented writer at all. Very basic. He's gift is these ideas. I think he's much better suited to graphic novels than he is to regular novels. But when it comes to ideas, the guy is tip top.

[OughtDeuce]

I'll second The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Starship Troopers. Both have a strong libertarian vibe though, so be ready for that.

I'll also second the first three Timothy Zahn Star Wars novels. Almost all of the Star Wars fiction is trash, but Zahn's first three novels are great. <---- I realize that this statement makes me a turbo nerd.

[scally]

Jonathan Maberry's Joe Ledger series is pretty good.

Ledger is a cop who basically gets recruited to lead an X-files type special forces team. the first book Patient Zero is fantastic. Middle East terrorists have created a virus that turns people into zombies and are about to unleash it and he must stop it.

the second book "The Dragon Factory" is how the team has to fight an eccentric and devilish family of geneticists who create mystical animals and also are interested in genocide.

he has a new book coming out next spring.

[Snow Dog]

Enders Game is one of my favorite books. Simply fantastic.

I've tried Dark Tower. Found it decent but it didn't keep my attention beyond the second book.

Even though I'm asking for recommendations, I'll make one...American Gods. Check it out.

$#@!ing awesome book.

If you like the genre, there are 2 books by Greg Bear, The Forge of God and its sequel, Anvil of Stars. The Human race gets our $#@! pushed in.

[Cluttered]

I'll second The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Starship Troopers. Both have a strong libertarian vibe though, so be ready for that.

I'm embarrassed to say this, but I've never read anything by Robert Heinlein. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Stranger in a Strange Land look intriguing...Even if a commenter on Amazon already ruined part of the ending of The Moon for me. The reviews for both of those books say you should read some of his earlier stuff before jumping into these books. How does Starship Troopers differ from the movie?

[OughtDeuce]

Stranger in a Strange Land is very Heinlein in that he comments a lot on society and morality. One of his common elements is non-traditional marriages (line marriages, polygamy, etc.). Caprica used some of this in the same way.

How does Starship Troopers differ from the movie?

The book is more serious. The movie was intentionally campy; apparently Paul Verhoven (the director) never finished the novel. The novel addresses militarism and civic duty, while the movie focuses on human violence.

I really don't want to ruin the book for you, but the plots are very different too.

[Cluttered]

Lots of good options here...I think I may try out Starship Troopers.

It's disappointing that people can't name good Fantasy novels. The genre really lacks quality writers. Either the ideas are stale...Far too much "4 friends gather on a journey to go somewhere to do something about evil"...or even if the idea is mildly fresh, the development is poor.

[DeadSalamander]

$#@!ing awesome book.

If you like the genre, there are 2 books by Greg Bear, The Forge of God and its sequel, Anvil of Stars. The Human race gets our $#@! pushed in.

Awesome - I didn't know anybody else loved those 2 books by Bear. Great stuff - read each several times.

For Fantasy, it's tough to beat Martin. However, (as pointed out above) I fear he'll die before getting to the end.

Have you ever read Donaldson's Thomas Covenant? I would read the 1st 2 trilogies and avoid the 3rd.

[OughtDeuce]

Lots of good options here...I think I may try out Starship Troopers.

It's disappointing that people can't name good Fantasy novels. The genre really lacks quality writers. Either the ideas are stale...Far too much "4 friends gather on a journey to go somewhere to do something about evil"...or even if the idea is mildly fresh, the development is poor.

The Star Wars novels are a good example of this. Zahn publishes three fantastic novels (these game out when I was in elementary school), so LucasFilm and Bantam allow any $#@! with a plot wheel to start writing novels. It's a cash machine, but it severely degrades the quality of the brand. I haven't even thought of reading a new Star Wars novel in 15 years.

The original Conan stories are available in a single-book collection. They are classic fantasy in every sense: slutty bitches, sorcery, old gods, and Conan splitting heads.

[Hellraiser97]

It's disappointing that people can't name good Fantasy novels. The genre really lacks quality writers. Either the ideas are stale...Far too much "4 friends gather on a journey to go somewhere to do something about evil"...or even if the idea is mildly fresh, the development is poor.

I think the first two Dragonlance Trilogies (Chronicles and Legends) has really great character development, but the first definitely falls into the typical plot (I still love it though, I read it about once every three years), but yeah, there aren't that many quality authors.

After that they fell into the same rut that SW did as OughtDeuce points out. I kept reading the books for a while as they came out, but finally they were so ridiculous, so badly written, and so incongruent with the original story line that I gave up. The only other DL book I still like is The Legend of Huma, though after going back and re-reading it last year (for the first time since about 1990), it didn't strike me as great as it did the first time.

[SydneyCarton]

Lots of good options here...I think I may try out Starship Troopers.

It's disappointing that people can't name good Fantasy novels. The genre really lacks quality writers. Either the ideas are stale...Far too much "4 friends gather on a journey to go somewhere to do something about evil"...or even if the idea is mildly fresh, the development is poor.

My buddy probably knows of some. He has spoken before about some semi-known quantities titled Elric, or something of that nature. I can float a question and ask. He said those were ok.

He has agreed with the general consensus here...there's a $#@! ton of garbage rolling around out there.

[Cluttered]

The original Conan stories are available in a single-book collection. They are classic fantasy in every sense: slutty bitches, sorcery, old gods, and Conan splitting heads.

One day I hope to find my own slutty pirate queen who I can roam around finding treasure with.

[rage-a-holic]

Have you ever read Donaldson's Thomas Covenant? I would read the 1st 2 trilogies and avoid the 3rd.

This. I would read everything Donaldson has put out, including his sci-fi stuff.

[misterloki]

My buddy probably knows of some. He has spoken before about some semi-known quantities titled Elric, or something of that nature. I can float a question and ask. He said those were ok.

He has agreed with the general consensus here...there's a $#@! ton of garbage rolling around out there.

The Elric books are by Michael Mor$#@!.

[Viper]

For fantasy, these are probably for young adults (but that's when I read them) but i liked Ursula K. Le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea novels, and the Enchanted Forest Chronicles from Patricia Wrede. Also vaguely remember reading The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley and liking it but that was in 4th or 5th grade. I remember them being good but I know everyone's gone back to a book or show they liked as a kid and realized it was crap so I can't guarantee they're good.

[Cluttered]

For fantasy, these are probably for young adults (but that's when I read them) but i liked Ursula K. Le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea novels, and the Enchanted Forest Chronicles from Patricia Wrede. Also vaguely remember reading The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley and liking it but that was in 4th or 5th grade. I remember them being good but I know everyone's gone back to a book or show they liked as a kid and realized it was crap so I can't guarantee they're good.

The only series I liked as a kid that I still like is the Redwall series by Brian Jacques. As an adult, the writing is simplistic...But it's very whimsical. Jacques is great at creating a cozy scene and his descriptions of food, even imaginary $#@! we'd never eat, make your mouth water. The books often are not shy at all about death, even if it's not overly bloody. I've held on to all the Redwall books I have with the intention of passing them down if I ever have children.

[bernorange]

Sydney, I'll agree that books being a ... award winner mean absolutely nothing to me.

All the books in these lists (that I've read - and that's probably half the total lists) are solid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...for_Best_Novel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebula_...for_Best_Novel

[DeadSalamander]

My buddy probably knows of some. He has spoken before about some semi-known quantities titled Elric, or something of that nature. I can float a question and ask. He said those were ok.

He has agreed with the general consensus here...there's a $#@! ton of garbage rolling around out there.

If you're referring to the Elric saga (6 main books, followons), by Michael Moor$#@!, I would definitely reccomend.

[F18Mustang]

If you haven't read it (and I know a lot have) you need to read Ender's Game and the rest of the series. Great character development and a great story.

Word.

I wish a movie would come out of that. Would be awesome.

[Cluttered]

This. I would read everything Donaldson has put out, including his sci-fi stuff.

Looking up this series on Amazon, I'm a little confused as to where it begins. It looks like there might be a combined trilogy of "Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever." Is the Unbeliever trilogy the beginning?

[UTinBigD]

the polity series by neal asher are really good 'space opera' ( i think that's the term) series. very good lead character and fantastic creation of the future universe. Another good lead char in the same genre are the takeshi kovacs series by Richard K Morgan.

someone mentioned China Mieville. very good writer.

Dark Tower series is well worth the read as is the Talisman and it's sequel (forget the name...Black House maybe?) it's neat how nearly all of King's books revolve around the Dark Tower books.

As for pure sword and sorcery type fantasy, the G RR Martin books mentioned above are the last i have read and were very good. I read a TON of the Dragonlance series in the past, but nothing seems as good as the series HR97 pointed out. Another good series that's more sword-like is the Renshai books by Mickey Zucker Reichert.

[rage-a-holic]

Looking up this series on Amazon, I'm a little confused as to where it begins. It looks like there might be a combined trilogy of "Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever." Is the Unbeliever trilogy the beginning?

You'll want to read:

The First Chronicles

1. Lord Foul's Bane (1977)
2. The Illearth War (1978)
3. The Power That Preserves (1979)

The Second Chronicles

1. The Wounded Land (1980)
2. The One Tree (1982)
3. White Gold Wielder (1983)

The Gap Series

1. The Gap into Conflict: The Real Story (1991)
2. The Gap into Vision: Forbidden Knowledge (1991)
3. The Gap into Power: A Dark and Hungry God Arises (1993)
4. The Gap into Madness: Chaos and Order (1994)
5. The Gap into Ruin: This Day All Gods Die (1996)

Mordant's Need

1. The Mirror of Her Dreams (1986)
2. A Man Rides Through (1987)

[MrPhlegm]

Dhalgren

[obclhorn]

Fantasy:

The Name of the Wind - Rothfuss

Mistborn Trilogy - Sanderson

The Crown of Stars - Elliot

[Math Mudrat]

This looks interesting. Is the character development better than something you find in the Warhammer 40k universe (if you've read those)?

I've never read Warhammer books, but the I found the characters in Forever War quite interesting. There's enough alien fighting to keep it exciting but that's not the point of the book.

[OughtDeuce]

One day I hope to find my own slutty pirate queen who I can roam around finding treasure with.

I'd like to see a movie made of Queen of the Black Coast just to see how they'd protray Belit.

"She was slender, yet formed like a goddess: at once lithe and voluptuous. Her only garment was a broad silken girdle. Her white ivory limbs and the ivory globes of her breasts drove a beat of fierce passion through the Cimmerian's pulse, even in the panting fury of battle. Her rich black hair, black as a Stygian night, fell in rippling burnished clusters down her supple back. Her dark eyes burned on the Cimmerian."

[Laser Eyes]

Anyone else like Feist's Riftwar Saga?

[SydneyCarton]

Anyone else like Feist's Riftwar Saga?

No clue. I never read any of Raymond E. Feist's books, but I know he's popular/prolific. Thought someone else might chime in...

[MirrOlure]

I'm going to tiptoe into this thread and simply ask.......have you read "Dune?"

[Laser Eyes]

No clue. I never read any of Raymond E. Feist's books, but I know he's popular/prolific. Thought someone else might chime in...

I really enjoyed the series. Great character development and easy reading. I read all the series up to The Serpentwar Saga. Haven't read anything of his since. Also, Betrayal at Krondor was a great RPG based off of his works.

[random horn]

Another good lead char in the same genre are the takeshi kovacs series by Richard K Morgan.

"The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman, great, great book. Basically a sci-fi book about Vietnam

both of these.

"Starship Troopers" was also good but I could never get through "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". You might also try Roger Zelazny's "Lord of Light"

[dirtonia]

Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan and now Brandon Sanderson. Gets a bit slow and drawn out at times, but Sanderson is done a great job stepping in for Jordan IMO, or it's just finally to a point where a ton of $#@! is happening.