Why Tiger is Never Coming Back

[ihateowho]

there is no "quail creek" on the tour so i'm not sure what you are referring to. i'm talking about events where he started play and then pulled out. in 2010 he didn't play in the players championship due to a neck injury but i don't think he started although he may have.

Sorry. I meant Quail Hollow and I still got it wrong. He missed the cut at Quail Hollow but withdrew from the Players Championship citing a neck injury.

[Huckleberry]

I have a question about the rules. You're supposed to keep track of your playing partner's score, filling out his scorecard or whatever.

Who writes in Kaymer's score for the back nine and signs as witness?

[bigup2dahorns]

okay went and looked it up. he missed the cut at 2010 in quail hollow, did not withdraw. he did complete 3 rounds at 2010 players championship and then W/D

[bigup2dahorns]

I have a question about the rules. You're supposed to keep track of your playing partner's score, filling out his scorecard or whatever.

Who writes in Kaymer's score for the back nine and signs as witness?

his playing partner, matt kuchar. tiger just takes his own scorecard and burns it

[Texas_Rocks]

the days of tiger dominating are over, imo

Yeah, pretty much anyone that has spent a lifetime playing the game will agree with that. He's got a multitude of problems that go beyond his leg and his head. He needs to start by getting rid of the swing impairing bulk that he has amassed over the last few years, but it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be able to recover the same mechanics that were developed when he was a fearless shot-maker dependent on muscle memory. The bulk has required him to change his swing so much that the guy really has no muscle memory these days.

[The Dog]

Yeah, pretty much anyone that has spent a lifetime playing the game will agree with that. He's got a multitude of problems that go beyond his leg and his head. He needs to start by getting rid of the swing impairing bulk that he has amassed over the last few years, but it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be able to recover the same mechanics that were developed when he was a fearless shot-maker dependent on muscle memory. The bulk has required him to change his swing so much that the guy really has no muscle memory these days.

Hell, my old man called this years ago. He was working out at the Four Seasons Las Colinas when the Byron Nelson tournament was going on. He noticed Tiger's uneven build when he came to the gym to stretch. Dad's a retired neurosurgeon and immediately said Tiger's upper bulk and lack of development in his legs would cause him problems down the road in his back and legs. I took a mental note of that and sure enough Tiger started having physical problems about a year or so later.

I also think the public shaming and shattering of his public image facade has been devastating to his psyche and confidence.

[GhostOfTomJoad]

He's done. I can't remember which former instructor of his in Golf Digest recently said that so much of either his current swing of an earlier one is/was built around one thing--protect the knee--that it's resulted in compromises elsewhere.

I wouldn't be surprised if he announces soon he's shutting it down again for the remainder of the year & having a 5th surgery.

[In10se]

His body was starting to break down before but his will was taking over and winning matches, but his personal problems completely destroyed his will. He's now a broken down guy physically and mentally and once you get old as a professional athlete (even in the most non contact game on earth, golf) you just can't do it anymore.

He's done and golf can go back to it's pre-Tiger days of being the elitist game that the regular man, 99% of the world, doesn't care about.

[Huckleberry]

his playing partner, matt kuchar. tiger just takes his own scorecard and burns it

What if it's a pairing and not a threesome?

[Dewey Oxburger]

What if it's a pairing and not a threesome?

Then it's not three times the fun.

[John Coctostan]

He's done and golf can go back to it's pre-Tiger days of being the elitist game that the regular man, 99% of the world, doesn't care about.

If that means I can play a round on a weekend in less than seven hours, I'm OK with this.

[Wally Fairway]

Then it's not three times the fun.

so you are saying that he quit playing today so he could make his nooner at Perkins?

[vicerous]

How many more majors will he win? 1? 2 maybe?

[tx 3 putt]

dont worry, he'll make a call to his special dr in canada and he'll be fine in no time

[bigup2dahorns]

What if it's a pairing and not a threesome?

they just keep each other's score

so you are saying that he quit playing today so he could make his nooner at Perkins?

he left around 11am in a white mercedes sedan that had a Florida sun pass (toll tag) so i'm guessing that was his and not a tournament car. not sure where the hell he was going. i thought he moved to the new place in jupiter which is a 4 1/2 hr drive from the TPC course, maybe he still hangs out in orlando some.

[tx 3 putt]

im sure he took a helo home

[tx 3 putt]

http://www.weiunderpar.com/post/tige...off-the-course

[BrothaHorn]

His body was starting to break down before but his will was taking over and winning matches, but his personal problems completely destroyed his will. He's now a broken down guy physically and mentally and once you get old as a professional athlete (even in the most non contact game on earth, golf) you just can't do it anymore.

He's done and golf can go back to it's pre-Tiger days of being the elitist game that the regular man, 99% of the world, doesn't care about.

If that means I can play a round on a weekend in less than seven hours, I'm OK with this.

Not so fast, Tiger may have gotten a lot of people paying attention, but the game itself is addictive. The tv numbers will decline, but the players($#@!ty or not) aren't going anywhere.

[Beast 512]

His leg injuries are his biggest obstacle. Swing changes aren't anything new. If he can stay healthy, he'll start winning again. It's a big if though.

[Jive Turkey]

Hell, my old man called this years ago. He was working out at the Four Seasons Las Colinas when the Byron Nelson tournament was going on. He noticed Tiger's uneven build when he came to the gym to stretch. Dad's a retired neurosurgeon and immediately said Tiger's upper bulk and lack of development in his legs would cause him problems down the road in his back and legs. I took a mental note of that and sure enough Tiger started having physical problems about a year or so later.

I also think the public shaming and shattering of his public image facade has been devastating to his psyche and confidence.

David Duval's freefall started when he went from a little chubby to Mr. Workout Freak skinny. and then when he started sucking, his confidence went out the window and he absolutely disappeared.

maybe some golfers don't appreciate the relationship between their bodies and their game, and think they can change body-types and still play at the same level.

i don't feel sad for Tiger. and i'm somewhat happy about his failings because it reflects poorly on his douche coach Sean Foley. who might be on the way out.

Sean Foley going bye-bye?

[IllinoisCyclone]

dammit. thought this thread was misplaced and about tigertradition.

[tx 3 putt]

so if tiger drops foley, he'll have to go another swing overhaul and such, how much time will he burn breaking in the new swing and such ?

[tx 3 putt]

ohh and $#@! him for taking a spot, keeping someone out of the tournament

[Beast 512]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Foley. When Mark O'Meara comes out and says Tiger isn't far off I usually pay attention. Nobody is around Tiger more. But today wasn't pretty.

[RespectMyAuthoritah!]

to be honest, i still don't understand why he changed his swing after he and butch worked so hard to get. during that run, he was an unstoppable, tour de force. he was golf. and golf was him.

now, tiger woods is starting to look like the US economy ... once was great, then crap happened, and can't seem to get going again.

basically, he needs to do what bubba suggested: "screw everything, and start having fun again." will probably win 1 or 2 majors in the next 3-4 years.

[DieUCLA98]

He brought a $#@! ton of exposure to the game at first, but was never really interested in giving anything back to the game outside of the almost standard endorsement of jr golf programs. Now look at him.

Surely this is a joke... The guy has given more back to the game than almost anyone else. What more do you expect him to do?

http://www.totalprosports.com/2011/0...s-of-all-time/

[ihateowho]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Foley. When Mark O'Meara comes out and says Tiger isn't far off I usually pay attention. Nobody is around Tiger more. But today wasn't pretty.

Tiger has always stated that he wanted to "own" his swing. He wants to be able correct his swing mid round or from shot to $#@! if necessary instead of having to wait for the range and his teacher.



I quoted the wrong post. This was meant to be in response to why Tiger changed his swing.


Crashatalk

[Texas_Rocks]

Surely this is a joke... The guy has given more back to the game than almost anyone else. What more do you expect him to do?

http://www.totalprosports.com/2011/0...s-of-all-time/

No it's not a joke. I'm not talking about the charities designed to take some of tax sting away. I'm talking about the fans that he consistently ignored even though the greatest of the game new the importance of doing the opposite. I'm talking about refusing to play in tourneys like the Houston Open and so on. It probably would not have hurt the PGA if he had kept his off course behavior in check a little better.

[tx 3 putt]

to be honest, i still don't understand why he changed his swing after he and butch worked so hard to get. during that run, he was an unstoppable, tour de force. he was golf. and golf was him.

now, tiger woods is starting to look like the US economy ... once was great, then crap happened, and can't seem to get going again.

basically, he needs to do what bubba suggested: "screw everything, and start having fun again." will probably win 1 or 2 majors in the next 3-4 years.

harmon was starting to get too much credit for his success and he went to prove it's tiger, not the coach.

repeat with haney

[bigup2dahorns]

i don't feel sad for Tiger. and i'm somewhat happy about his failings because it reflects poorly on his douche coach Sean Foley. who might be on the way out.

this is quite possible. i say that because when tiger was asked this week about bubba watson's comments, instead of brushing them off or not answering (in typical tiger fashion), he actually commented about how lee trevino was self taught and managed fine without a swing coach. knowing trevino, he's creaming himself upon hearing tiger say this in public for the first time. trevino hates these golf coaching gurus who he says never won anything in their lives. we probably won't hear anything about this for awhile, i suspect tiger won't tee it up in an event for quite a long time now.

[Beast 512]

harmon was starting to get too much credit for his success and he went to prove it's tiger, not the coach.

repeat with haney

That is pretty retarded. Harmon had numerous issues and played his part in that as well. He helped drive the best player in the game away with his ego and need for his own spotlight.

[GhostOfTomJoad]

OK, now having seen the footage of Tiger climbing up the stairs to the clubhouse 2 steps at a time I'm more than a bit suspicious about his excuse for dropping out. I think Tiger knew his game was for $#@! & rather than post his highest score round as a pro then have to try & grind out something on Friday he played the bum knee card. I'm not saying he might not be in some pain, but who on the PGA tour isn't? $#@!, Fred Couples has the back of a 90 year old wrestler & he still plays regardless of the pain. Lefty's got arthritis as does probably half the players in the field over the age of 35.

He'll try and play the US Open & if he stinks up the joint in the 1st round watch him break out a limp & make for the exit. Hell, he probably doesn't want to play more than the 4 majors each year & a few select high profile tune ups like WGC, the TPC, Arnie & Jack's tourneys plus Dubai or wherever else some rich sheik is willing to pay him a couple mil for an appearance fee.

I wonder if Tiger will ever get over being exposed as a fraud & what that's done to his confidence? He had such tight control over every aspect of his game & life that it enhanced his image of being unbreakable. Well, that's shot & the young guns are charging along behind him, outdriving him by 30 yards, & playing their own fearless games. And don't think those guys don't know that the first one of them to win a few majors will be crowned the next big thing.

[tx 3 putt]

i have no doubt he $#@!ing quit today

[bigup2dahorns]

today was odd. tiger had NOT hit any balls at all since augusta up until monday of this week. so that told me right there not to expect much of anything out of him. then today after he W/D's he says he felt okay going into the day and during warmup before the round but then had a problem on the first tee shot? suspicious to me.

[Jive Turkey]

very Wie-esque.

[ihateowho]

I had someone ask me if I though that Tiger had done HGH and I very quickly dismissed it. In fact I think I even laughed a bit. That was in 2006 . I am starting to revisit the conversation now. I hate it but it is out there. Someone earlier mentioned the doctor from Canada. The PGA tour test now don't they? I think they have done it for a couple of years. I don't know how much of an advantage HGH would give someone of the golf course. He hasn't been a huge bomber in a few years. When he first started he gave up 10 or 15 yards off the tee by using equipment to control his drives. I don't think he did it but I can't say for sure. Anyone else think about this at all?


Crashatalk

[Texas_Rocks]

I personally don't think that he juiced, but he was definitely doing a lot of pushups.

[RespectMyAuthoritah!]

- yea, i agree with that ... two egos don't work well with each other after awhile.

- i am pretty sure (65%) the knee injury was simply BS today. he was playing awful at the start and his heart wasn't there anymore. as friend once said: "he should go back to cheating again"

- about his muscle gain ... i don't think he used any enhancing drugs like HGH or steroids. He has been killing himself in the gym for 10 years (?) and he is obviously jacked. but not like barry bonds or McGuire.

[John Coctostan]

I had someone ask me if I though that Tiger had done HGH and I very quickly dismissed it. In fact I think I even laughed a bit. That was in 2006 . I am starting to revisit the conversation now. I hate it but it is out there. Someone earlier mentioned the doctor from Canada. The PGA tour test now don't they? I think they have done it for a couple of years. I don't know how much of an advantage HGH would give someone of the golf course. He hasn't been a huge bomber in a few years. When he first started he gave up 10 or 15 yards off the tee by using equipment to control his drives. I don't think he did it but I can't say for sure. Anyone else think about this at all?

I'm certainly suspicious, particularly with the Canadian doctor connection coming to light. I think if he did use PEDs, it probably wasn't to increase bulk and muscle strength, but to recover from wear-and-tear injuries faster.

[GhostOfTomJoad]

As far as HGH wasn't there quite a stir a number of years back when Gary Player was behind the push for testing & without naming names made it pretty clear that it was visibly obvious that juice had made its way onto the tour?

I don't know. I think I'm with JC in that if Tiger was juicing it was to try & recover more quickly. But I don't understand this "killing himself in the gym for 10 years" to turn his body from a lean, flexible, ideal golf physique into that of a tight end. I know weight training had its benefits to his game but you'd think at some point the risk v. reward for pounding all that iron wasn't going to be there. Did Tiger need to be able to bench 350 to hit a golf ball 300 yards?

[ihateowho]

I'm not really sure what to think. The recover more quickly argument does have a couple holes. What was he recovering from really? He didn't really play a very busy schedule. It's not like he was trying to grind through a season like some of the lower level golfers that have to play every week in an attempt to keep their cards. I guess maybe the baseball and now the Lance Armstrong stuff has kind of jaded me on the PED issue. So many athletes have been caught that it just doesn't surprise me anymore. I want to think he was clean but I can't think that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[John Coctostan]

The recover more quickly argument does have a couple holes. What was he recovering from really? He didn't really play a very busy schedule. It's not like he was trying to grind through a season like some of the lower level golfers that have to play every week in an attempt to keep their cards.

Tiger has had knee issues since he was an amateur. Even if he's skipping a lot of tournaments, he's still out there practicing every day -- and Tiger has a reputation for putting in long hours on the range, jogging and in the gym (with an occasional break to nail some strange). That takes its toll, even if you don't have a history of chronic injuries, which he does. If the choice for Tiger was to take some time off from practice and throttle back when he was at the top of his game or take a little something to help him keep up his torrid pace, I know the decision I'd guess he made.

[bigup2dahorns]

here's part of a column in today's orlando paper:

As Tiger hobbled around The Players Championship Thursday and withdrew after recording a horrific 6-over 42 after only nine holes, it was hard not to wonder if his golfing free fall has more to do with his much-publicized split from wife Elin or his less-publicized disassociation with Dr. Anthony Galea.

You remember Dr. Feelgood, right? He's the Canadian physician who was arrested and indicted for allegedly smuggling and unlawfully distributing HGH into the United States a couple of years ago. Galea is suspected of providing performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs) to many elite-level athletes.

Woods was treated by Galea here in Orlando in 2009 despite the fact that Galea was reportedly not licensed to practice medicine in the United States. Woods says he used Galea not for HGH but for a technique known as "blood spinning" to help expedite Woods' recovery from knee surgery. Why Woods would choose a well-known HGH doctor from Canada to do this "blood-spinning" when many licensed American doctors also perform the technique has raised a mountain of suspicion.

Even though Woods has denied ever taking PEDs, many professional golfers are skeptical. Sports Illustrated polled 71 PGA Tour players last year and nearly a quarter of them said they believed Woods was dirty.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...6252273.column

[Texas_Rocks]

here's part of a column in today's orlando paper:



http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...6252273.column

Have to admit that I'm coming around on this one.

[ihateowho]

Drug testing on the PGA tour began in July of 2008. Tiger did not play after the US Open in June, which he won, because he was recovering from ACL surgery on his left knee. In 2009 he won 8 times before the Thanksgiving car wreck and subsequent revelations that he is a poon hound. He hasn't won since and in fact has played the worst golf probably of his life. I guess HGH wasn't the reason he was winning. It was most likely VAGINA that was helping him win. He needs to get back to banging everything in site.

[GhostOfTomJoad]

Sports Illustrated polled 71 PGA Tour players last year and nearly a quarter of them said they believed Woods was dirty.

It'd be damn interesting to see who voted 'dirty'.

[John Coctostan]

It was most likely VAGINA that was helping him win. He needs to get back to banging everything in site.

They should do a study to see the effects that hitting lots of hot ass has on athletic performance. I'll volunteer to be a test subject.

[DieUCLA98]

How much is HGH going to help in golf? Golf is a technique sport, not a power sport, and Tiger is not near the top of the power charts anymore anyways. And if its so his knee heals faster, $#@! load of good that did.

[Jive Turkey]

at least one doctor thinks the knee pain is caused, in part, by his new swing under Sean Foley:

Bob Prichard, a sports biomechanics expert and the president of the Somax Performance Institute in suburban San Francisco, said that he believed that Woods’s current knee problems were a result of his incorrect spine angle and that a video breakdown revealed that Woods’s new swing was causing it.

“His swing is measurably worse in every way and is putting extra strain of his left knee,” said Prichard, who has worked with 44 Olympic gold medalists and has studied the golf swing extensively. “More than ever, he is pushing his hip toward the target, outside his left foot, and the stress is going into his left knee, actually pushing the femur down on to the tibial plate.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/sp...r=1&ref=sports

[ihateowho]

I thought that was why (among other reasons) that he parted ways with Butch Harmon. The swing he had back then was putting too much strain on his knee and it wouldn't hold up over time. I wonder if he can wear a brace on it to help?