Yes, I took it that way also, but it opens the door for some future revelation about Aerys and Joanna.
I thought Hodor was the prince that was promised. Stop confusing me.
I think we can rule out Eddard ever having slept with Ashara Dayne, compare how Robb married Jeyne (even tho it was pretty much the dumbest move ever) to protect her honor with how Brandon Stark seemed to $#@! whoever he wanted all the time. If Ned had slept with Ashara or Wylla or the fisherwoman he would have married her. Even if it meant screwing up his dads arranged marriage to tie the Tullys to the Starks. Ned is most definitely not Jon's father.
I don't know i could be dead wrong, but it seems the statute of limitations on making a move on a chick before she's fair game only applies to friends, not brothers. Or ned is just way to $#@!ing forgiving of a person.
Also, jon's definition of honor is slightly different from neds and robbs and they were both raised by ned so i don't know how far you can stretch the rob analogy. Ned might have slept with her with intent to marry until Brandon died, and married cat not knowing that Ashara was pregnant.
Last edited by El_Pollo_Loco11; 08-12-2011 at 06:42 PM.
Okay - so between work, business travel, and a 2 week vacation in Colorado (woot!)... I *JUST* finished it.
And, my impression is that GRRM is channeling the writers of LOST. He started off with a *kick-ass* premise, came up with two *REALLY* good seasons, then with the last two books (Crows and Dragons), he's like seasons 4 and 5 of LOST.
The ratio of new characters and oddly-obscure storylines being introduced to the number of plots being resolved is *way* too high to finish off with any sense of satisfaction right now.
I'm mildly disappointed by the last two books, honestly, but will keep reading anything new in the series that gets put out.
i havent read all of these responses yet because i have to run now and don't want to forget my questions and thoughts here, please respond if you have any of these answers or thoughts of your own:
1) how can jon snow be rhaegar and lyanna's son when he has black hair and dark eyes? this tells me that jon snow is the result of king robert and lyanna.
2) isn't the new champion of cersaie, the knight who doesn't eat or drink, mean that it is a reincarnation of cligane or the hound who has been brought back to life by the lightning lords meister?
3) jon better not be $#@!ing dead and i don't want him as a walking dead like the lightning lord or caitlyn
4) daeny's character bores the $#@! out of me, all she does is sit around, whine and sleep with guys who smell bad...why doesn't he kill her off instead?
5) want more arya and bron
6) want painful death of the bastard of bolton
7) i don't know why martin introduces these $#@!ing characters with only a few chapters left in the book like connington etc
8) asha greyjoy is unnecessary character...
9) am i to take it that samwell tarley, tyrion and daeny are all going to team up then invade westeros with the dragons?
1. Sometimes the kids look like the father other times it's the mother. Sansa and Rob looked like Catelyn, while Arya looked like Ned and Jon clearly has Stark features.
2. The newest kingsguard is The Mountain and yes he was brought back by the Q whatever that got kicked out of the maesters.
3. Jon will presumably be brought back to life right away, so he won't be all $#@!ed up like Catelyn. Dondarrion also was brought back numerous times and he came back more changed each time. Plus, Melissandre is alot more powerful than Thoros, maybe she will do a much better job.
7. Connigton is going to be very important I think and served to let us learn more about grayscale. Strong hints that grayscale only goes dormant in kids instead of going away permanently. Something big is definitely going to happen with Shireen down the road.
on the look issue, wasn't one of the main points of GOT the fact that eddard stark and jon arryn were both killed because they put together the link of the way looks ran so strong within these royal families? the targaryens ALL had silver hair and violet eyes while it is written that lyanna had the same stark coloring as her brother eddard and his coloring is described as having a long face, grey eyes and lean build.
jon has black hair and black eyes like all of roberts children such as gendry
Last edited by mileslong; 09-06-2011 at 12:38 AM.
I'm just assuming she brings him back quickly. It may not happen that way and it's a good point about him being a warg also having an effect.
I think we can nix the spoiler tags at this point
I took, "he didn't feel the fourth one," to mean the first three killed him.
I agree with Drew, but I guess it's also possible he's not dead. There's not much that would surprise me at this point.
I think he has to die to get him out of the Night's Watch. What I'm not sure about is whether he comes back with Melisandre's help or if he comes back through the weird warg reincarnation thing we learned about in the prologue.
what i hope happens, is he is dead for 3-7 days body in the ice cells while $#@! goes down at the wall (falls apart) and Jon is warged into ghost possibly hanging out with Val. Tormund or some NW men loyal to Jon wins the struggle and decides to burn all the bodies, but Jon gets his own funeral pyre. Fire lit, Ghost Jon is freaking out, Targ/Azor/Children of the forest magic (non Milisadre) and Jon walks out unburnt and goes whats up bitches
And "he didn't feel the fourth", is open to interpretation in Martin's world. Don't forget that one of Martin's chapters ended with Arya going blind. Look what happened there. I recognize I may be reading a "knockout" into it because killing off the character would be a Ned-like loss to me. Fine. Denial is the first stage of grief.
Well, that too. But we don't really know that he wasn't born that way the first time do we? (Or does it have to be a rebirth? I don't remember.) I assume we'll get the story of his birth at some point. Maybe in book 15.
Houstonian, you're right about the POVs. But unless Martin has been toying with us all along (which I wouldn't put past him at this point) and there is no Prince who was Promised, Jon is going to die and come back in a big way.
Last edited by fawnknutsen; 09-07-2011 at 11:25 PM. Reason: parentheses
is this heading to where jon ends up joining with daeny and they take over the realm using the dragons?
The red priests believe in R'hllor, with that belief is a legendary hero named Azor Ahai. Some of the maesters believe he was a real hero, but will/will not be born again. They red priests believe he will be reborn to fight the darkenss (read Others). Like lots of the ancient history of that world it is kind of mentioned in passing.
The link has a list of possible candidates,but it could just be George $#@!ing with us some more.
I don't know that he does have to die and be reborn, Hous. MK will have to enlighten us on that point. I just don't think it would be in keeping with Jon's character for him to take off and become a superhero without something major happening. Attempted murder is a big deal, yes, but a little too low key for Martin. I think the prologue warg story doesn't have much of a point, either, if it isn't to set up a storyline for Jon to die and come back to life. I could be completely wrong, though. I thought a lot of $#@! would have happened by now that hasn't.
I assume people have read the book.
Jon is not dead and he will eventually be the Stark in Winterfell and he will be more or less the reason Westeros survives the war against the Others. Or maybe Bran becomes the Stark in Winterfell and Jon dies in battle, but Jon is a long way from being done. Jon is probably the biggest protagonist in the books, IMO.
I think that the various Westeros story lines that relate to the Game of Thrones will become irrelevant when Dany comes to Westeros. Hopefully we will see an end to the Lannister bull$#@! and the last two books will not mention the Rains of Castamere, ever.
I see Dany reuniting with the Dothraki and going to Westeros fairly soon. Tyrian will be her Hand, and she will command a huge force of sell sword, the unsullied, and the Dothraki. All this slaver bull$#@! will come to an end. I'm sick of all the weird names and trying to keep track of all the sub-plots.
I kind of wish they had a separate book for Arya and that whole faceless men storyline. I like her chapters the best by far. Even so, what is she going to do? Assassinate someone in Westeros? If she goes over to the faceless men as a true convert, she won't be a Stark anymore, and really won't care about the Westoros bull$#@!. Maybe she completes here apprenticeship and then goes back to join Jon or save Sansa, who knows.
Overall a good book, but not really a page turner. I agree the whole think with the Prince of Dorne was lame. They could have shortened the book by about 200 pages if they'd cut him and all the tattered prince/sellsword bull$#@!. I never felt any concern about Dany's safety in the entire book.
I am tired of Cersei. I want her to die.
I think she will fall in with her mom some how if/when she makes it back to Westros. I'm also predicting one name on her list will cause major political problems in Westros. However, I can't remember who on her list is alive and who is dead without reading it for the 20th time.
PS Cersei is worth more alive than dead to Martin, cause he knows his readers can't stand that insufferable $#@!.
Ser Ilyn: beheaded her father
Ser Meryn: killed Syrio Forel.
Queen Cersei: all around bitch
Dunsen: stole Gendry's helm.
Raff the Sweetling: killed her friend Lommy Greenhands.
Ser Gregor: crazy monster *technically dead*
Still can't believe the young wolf is gone. That really, really sucked.
will nymeria ever return? rickon's character is the least developed of all the starks, why would we care about him at this point? this is heading toward a path i don't really like, with dany as the queen, tyrion as her hand, samwell as her meister etc. if martin makes jon her king and arya the kings hand or something im out...
Nymeria has made appearances in the wolf dreams/wargs. She drug Catelyn's body from the river before Thoros brought her back to life.
I'm looking forward to the eventual Rickon POV. His story is a great unknown, and with Davos seeking him out that will be an interesting subplot to monitor.
Yeah Dany will come in to save Westeros from the Others and whatnot. Westeros is basically Europe after WWII right now, heading into a 30 year long winter with no food.
Too bad by the time the next book comes out I will have forgotten all of this. The next book won't come out until/unless HBO puts pressure on the author. I figure it will take 5-6 years to get through the next 4 books on HBO.
If HBO follows form, it'll be build up to the second to last (PENULTIMATE!) episode, climax, and then a final episode that acts as a segue/cliffhanger to season 3.
It also wouldn't surprise me if they got creative with Season 3. I would have presumed the Red Wedding would be that season's second to last episode, but I wonder if they don't split the book into two so the Feast for Crows season doesn't suck as hard as the book.
Football .. Basketball .. Baseball .. Other Sports .. RC Didn't Offer .. Gamboool
Varsity .. Hole in the Wall .. PCL .. Einstein's .. Nasty's .. GM Steakhouse .. NSAA
Bada Bing .. Can you help me with this? .. Shagslist .. Cloak Room .. Classics .. Bellmont