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Is there magic find and a secret cow level? If so, a may never leave my house.
what he said. minus the condescension.Originally Posted by linux
I suppose the hipster comment deserved the condescension in your response, but I don't feel that it is completely lacking in validity.
rigidity =/= excitement. I don't need to be unable to make changes to my character to pay attention and look under the hood.
flexibility and an ability to tinker and experiment = excitement and more enjoyable game play
If you honestly think that there is less customization in D3 then you have not given appropriate attention to all of the new game's systems. They are different games. D2 was just a more complex D1. They were released only 3.5 years apart. It's been 12 years since D2, and thus D3 is more evolved from the other two.
You see the automatic stat point allocation and think "zomg teh new system is teh suxxzorz, i'm too 1337 for that". You assume that the game has been reduced to only 5 "builds" because you haven't taken the time to look at the total changes to the game.
1/4 of the stats were basically useless in D2. Even if you were any kind of casting class the general rule was "just enough in str & dex to use your gear and then the rest in vit. None in energy. How is that a good system? Energy was completely scrapped for D3 and replaced with intelligence that adds spell damage and +to all resistances.
The stat point system has been tuned to make all stats beneficial in some way to every class. The automatic allocation of stat points gives each class a baseline stat level. Customization has been exported from the allocation stat point system to being customized via gemcrafting. Stat point customization has been moved, not removed.
Example:In D2 the highest level gem gave +10 to stat, and only on helms and armor (2 & 4 respectively). So you're looking at a total of +60.Radiant Star Topaz
Other: +58 Intelligence
Helm: 31% Better Chance of Finding Magical Items
Weapon: Melee attackers take 1800 damage per hit.
In D3 the highest level gem currently gives +58 to stat and 1 socket amulet, 2 socket belt, 2 socket bracers, 6 socket armor = 638.
D3 level 2 (of 14) gems give stat points equal to a perfect D2 gem.
Again, stat point customization has been moved, not removed. With all 4 stat points now being made viable for all classes the customization just as it applies to stat points has improved not disappeared.
When you take that into account along with each class having 22 active skills, each with 5 rune modifiers to give 132 active skills and 16 passive skills, and blizzard claiming it all scales properly to keep all skills viable at endgame the lack of customization argument becomes beyond ridiculous.
I do not care who plays the same games as me. It doesn't bother me that blizzard attempts to make games as accessible as possible on the low end, it doesn't affect me.
In the end the leet will be leet because they will take the time to do the theorycrafting and run the numbers and understand why X is better than Y. I'm all for a game that will allow me to do that and tinker with my char and try different play styles without having to start at level 1 every time.
I think the game will be an awesome addition to an awesome series.
TLDR D3 IS TEH ROXXORZ
longer, complete explanation of stats/customization/new systems - great read if you want to know the changes from D2 to D3
My wife used to make fun of me 10 years ago and say "I am overburdened" when I would crawl into bed at 4am an try and get some sex.
/csb
I am sure this will be similar.
Also, I obviously meant picking it up. Not living.
Don't worry my condescencion had no trigger.
I agree that D2 is a more complex game than D1 and that is why I thought it was better after replaying D1 mechanics wise.If you honestly think that there is less customization in D3 then you have not given appropriate attention to all of the new game's systems. They are different games. D2 was just a more complex D1. They were released only 3.5 years apart. It's been 12 years since D2, and thus D3 is more evolved from the other two.
D3 is a devolution, in gameplay you can only really create 5 characters, any illusion of customization is just the equivalent of changing skills on the fly basically. The skills, the runes, hell even the gear since you have a bottomless inv screen, everything can be chosen just as long you meet the level cap, and hell it would not surprise me that they will eventually allow yout level 40 Barbarian turn into a level 40 witch doctor reducing the true build to just one character, would you support such a move as well? afterall by doing this your customization math gets factored x 5.
Look I am in complete agreement that Attributes are broken in the Diablo games, you have to understand that they took a system belonging to roguelikes, where dex helps stealth and lockpick, intelligence with conversation options and alternate solutions, vitality with surviving etc. I get that they gutted the extra options because it is a combat RPG 100% I get that... However, instead of fixing this system that was incomplete in D1 and D2 they decided to get rid of it its only in D3 as an illusion since its unchangeable might as well get rid of it completely.You see the automatic stat point allocation and think "zomg teh new system is teh suxxzorz, i'm too 1337 for that". You assume that the game has been reduced to only 5 "builds" because you haven't taken the time to look at the total changes to the game.
1/4 of the stats were basically useless in D2. Even if you were any kind of casting class the general rule was "just enough in str & dex to use your gear and then the rest in vit. None in energy. How is that a good system? Energy was completely scrapped for D3 and replaced with intelligence that adds spell damage and +to all resistances.
This is the point I am trying to get to, instead of creating a system where they inovate, they think how they can make Str, dex, int and vit interesting, by creating consequences in Str limiting your int, or dex helping with vit, things that can make the game MORE than just a min-max spreadsheet (which I am not against). They just remove it from the game entirely. That is the biggest problem in gaming today streamlining is seen as inovation when it really is the opposite, its lazyness, a systemis too complex? then cut it don't fix it.
A baseline level that is illusionary, a level 5 demon hunter is exactly equal to all level 5 demon hunters in the game, item crafting creates wearable kit which is the only thing differentiating level 5 demon hunters, however you have a HUGE inventory screen. You can set up your ranged DH or your close combat DH on the fly, when in D1 and D2 both characters should have been a completely different build, with stat and skill choices from the very begining, something you would have had to pay attention to get to. Now somebody can turn off their brain for 90% of the game, get good kit in the end and he has maximized his character, that is my main criticism.The stat point system has been tuned to make all stats beneficial in some way to every class. The automatic allocation of stat points gives each class a baseline stat level. Customization has been exported from the allocation stat point system to being customized via gemcrafting. Stat point customization has been moved, not removed.
Again like I asked before, if you can change classes on the fly you multiply ridiculous x5, would you want a game like that? Honestly?When you take that into account along with each class having 22 active skills, each with 5 rune modifiers to give 132 active skills and 16 passive skills, and blizzard claiming it all scales properly to keep all skills viable at endgame the lack of customization argument becomes beyond ridiculous.
It does, resources are limited just like them splurging on cinematics damages the game due to limited resources, so does streamlining games for frat boys.I do not care who plays the same games as me. It doesn't bother me that blizzard attempts to make games as accessible as possible on the low end, it doesn't affect me.
Will it really matter though? why not carry both X and Y (and W and Z and Omega) and be done with it? D3 allowes this, D1 allowed infinite stash in town, and D2 perfected limited inventory. I still get nightmares in deciding what to pick up or drop.In the end the leet will be leet because they will take the time to do the theorycrafting and run the numbers and understand why X is better than Y. I'm all for a game that will allow me to do that and tinker with my char and try different play styles without having to start at level 1 every time.
compared to Diablo 2, DIablo 3's skill tree looks like its gonna suck some serious balls.
half the fun of d2 was making new and different and interesting builds of the same character.
The stat point system was broken, we agree on that but little else. If the old system is broken, why are you upset that it has been changed? Even for a fury barb the rule was "enough str/dex to use your gear, everything else in vit". The only class where it wasn't "enough str to use your gear and everything else into vitality" was a bowazon since you had to balance dex and vit. Intelligence was useless to every class. That is no longer the case.
The stat point system has not been removed. I said this several times in my post and you ignored it. It has been moved to gemcrafting. In D3 a player will fine tune their desired stat points via gems.
I don't understand why you insist permanence is good. Why should I have to take the time to level a new char just to test a different build? Why should it be a grind to change my play style? How is that good game design.
You will be able to make new and different builds without having to grind multiple characters.
Compare bone wall in D2 and wall of zombies in D3.
Bone wall was a barely mildly useful crowd control spell. It's only real use was for the buff it gave bone spirit.
Now we are given wall of zombies:
a crowd control spell at it's base, but also does damage. With runes it can be modified in the following ways:
SKILL RUNE
Barricade
Increases the width of the Wall of Zombies. The zombies will attack for 80% weapon damage as Physical.
Unrelenting Grip
Your Wall of Zombies will Slow the movement of enemies by 60% for 5 seconds.
Creepers
Up to 3 zombies will emerge from the ground and attack nearby enemies for 25% of your weapon damage as Physical per attack.
Pile On
Summon a tower of zombies that falls over, dealing 765% weapon damage as Physical to any enemies it hits and knocks them back.
Dead Rush
Zombies crawl out of the ground and run in all directions, dealing 445% weapon damage as Physical to nearby enemies.
So the options are to increase the crowd control aspect, or turn it into a focused dmg spell or an aoe dmg spell.
Now look at fetish army, a spell that would be in a different tree than wall of zombies in D2:
and it's modifiers:
SKILL RUNE
Fetish Ambush
Each Fetish deals 250% weapon damage as Physical to any nearby enemy as it is summoned.
Devoted Following
Decreases the cooldown of Fetish Army to 90 seconds.
Legion of Daggers
Increases number of dagger-wielding Fetishes summoned by 3.
Tiki Torchers
Summon an additional 2 Fetish casters who breathe fire in a cone in front of them that deals 15% of your weapon damage as Fire.
Head Hunters
Summon an additional 2 Hunter Fetishes that shoot blowdarts at enemies, dealing 20% of your weapon damage as Poison.
So if i'm using wall of zombies as crowd control, I can modify fetish army to be a ranged attack. If i'm using wall of zombies as physical damage, I can modify fetish army to do physical damage. Or if I'm not using wall of zombies at all and instead using acid cloud, I can modify fetish army to do fire damage or poison.
All three of those combinations would benefit from different stat point allocation.
Last edited by heso; 04-18-2012 at 10:51 AM.
I am not upset it was changed, I would welcome change... for the better, what they did however was remove it, more insulting they kept it there as an illusion.
How can you make it better? int does not need to be a proxy to mana, it could provide a quicker upgrade path to better skills, vitality could affect cooldowns, strength can increase damage but hurt your aiming, high dexterity could increase the standard deviation of attacks a 10-20 weapon could be more likely to do damage 10 or 20 than 15.
In short there is an insane number of ways it could have been better, there is an insane amount of RPG where to draw inspiration, instead they gutted the attribute system in favor of...
Items, they gutted the character in favor items, why? selling characters is not envisioned but items are. That is the crux of the matter appealing to WoW players instead of old Diablo players. The auction house will maximize profit or else.The stat point system has not been removed. I said this several times in my post and you ignored it. It has been moved to gemcrafting. In D3 a player will fine tune their desired stat points via gems.
Look I am not a fan of grind, D2 suffers from this and quite frankly I did not devote my time to this after beating Diablo. What I liked about Diablo? hardcore a roguelike feature that makes your death permanent, do you think this is a bad thing? why should you start over if you die? because-it-is-fun.I don't understand why you insist permanence is good. Why should I have to take the time to level a new char just to test a different build? Why should it be a grind to change my play style? How is that good game design.
Grind sucks, I don't like it but it is not like Diablo 3 fixes it hell it makes it worse in a way, instead of slightly more interesting grind to level up, its grind for farming, you are a farmer in Diablo 3 while in theory you could grind for levels in Diablo 2 (although you could still farm in D2 and most had their own special runs)
In short why is permanence more interesting? because it forces you to pay attention throught the game, and paying attention is more fun, why is hardcore mode fun? because it forces you to pay attention throught the game AND creates tension, its fun. Sleepwalking to level 60 with the foreknowledge that you can just switch kit and move to a bowazon to a javazon brainlessly. Its-less-fun.
Oh and hardcore mode sucks in D3, since its always online, there is no single player at all which means that if I lose my conection my character is alive for 10 seconds before despawn basically permanently killing him.
The only thing that is mildly interesting about D3 and its $#@!ing DRM will undoubtedly force me to rage quit once a playthrough because my internet conection is not perfect.
The end result, as it affects me is that the character has not been gutted. The stat points have been moved to gems, which will facilitate me trying different play styles. This is an improvement to the game design that also benefits the auction house (which i don't really care about).
Most endgamers are not grinding levels in D2 for fun, they are grinding levels in D2 for a different build to use in the endgame. For me, endgame content in D3 will be MUCH more enjoyable when I can grind for gear to max out build A while trying play styles B, C, D, E... without having to level up 5 characters to max level to see if I like it in endgame, or to see if it is better suited to endgame than A.
In that area D3 is a great improvment for me over D2, because I don't care about having to grind multiple chars for different play styles making the game less accessible for other people.
There are more play styles per class in D3 than there were in D2. That is not debatable. The change is that each play style does not need a custom rolled character. I can't understand how this is a bad thing. They still take their own gear to maximize. Also, I have less time than I did when I was playing D1 and D2, so only having to level 5 characters to end game instead of many many more, is another vast improvement.
The players that you say will mindlessly grind to 60 and switch gear to maximize their playstyle were mindlessly grinding levels in D2 and alt+tabbing to see where they need to put a the stat points and skill point they just earned. That doesn't affect me and has no change in my enjoyment level of the game.
My enjoyment of a game has absolutely nothing to do with how many other people play it or how accessible/inaccessible it is for a new gamer to get into.
As it sits right now I am having difficulty finding an aspect of D3 that isn't a push or an improvement with D2, but I haven't played the full game yet so I can't make that call yet. More options for play styles, not having to roll a new char to try a different play style, easier to experiment and fine tune a character to my specific desired play style at that moment.
If inaccessibility for other people and strict roguelikes are your thing, then go play Moria.
What about just one class? one you can change at will during gametime? would you consider THAT an improvement?Most endgamers are not grinding levels in D2 for fun, they are grinding levels in D2 for a different build to use in the endgame. For me, endgame content in D3 will be MUCH more enjoyable when I can grind for gear to max out build A while trying play styles B, C, D, E... without having to level up 5 characters to max level to see if I like it in endgame, or to see if it is better suited to endgame than A.
In that area D3 is a great improvment for me over D2, because I don't care about having to grind multiple chars for different play styles making the game less accessible for other people.
There are more play styles per class in D3 than there were in D2. That is not debatable. The change is that each play style does not need a custom rolled character. I can't understand how this is a bad thing. They still take their own gear to maximize. Also, I have less time than I did when I was playing D1 and D2, so only having to level 5 characters to end game instead of many many more, is another vast improvement.
Its D3 grinding / 5
And for the record I hate grind too, games that rely on grind suck balls and are basically work, D1 beat D2 in that that grind was small, hell it was also a short game. But some people love to work in their games for little or no reward, just random trash, they suck.
D3 did not need to grind, just make the xp curve manageable, but you can't have the lottery farm without grinding... Hell a gameplay improvement is working on the encounter design make the mob interesting and smart instead of just a trash mob, in D1 just a combination of two enemies made me think ahead. Oh I forgot streamliners loathe kiters...
What makes me angry is not that D2 was perfect, hell it was not even close, the problem is that they treat their audience like children, something too difficult? then cut it, something in the way of the auction house? then cut it, a pirate or two? put in always online draconian DRM.
That is ActivisionBlizzard nowadays.
Last edited by linux; 04-18-2012 at 03:44 PM.
Diablo III Open Beta Weekend
Open beta for the battle.net stress test, Noon PST today until Noon monday.
Its going to be extremely painfully laggy though.
Agreed, but that's the point of the stress test. Gotta make sure that first 24 hours after launch can handle it.
don't care, still gonna play
Played for a bit
I feel old or something because I have no clue what this game has become. I feel like Torchlight is a better representation of Diablo than Diablo 3 is.
This is coming from someone who played Diablo 1 and 2 for an embarrassing amount of time growing up
Enjoyed it.... barb was a.pretty easy play through. Working on the mage. It seems lite diwblo lite but all and all I enjoyed the $#@! out of it.
Jesus $#@!ing christ, linux, don't play the game if you don't like it. Seriously, though, please don't play it just to attempt to ruin other people's experiences by $#@!ting all over it while playing it. I hate when people do that.
I am not playing the game anymore nor probably will again, but why do you think I am ruining it for you? don't you think that maybe you see something wrong in the game? and I just lay it bare?
I want a great Diablo sequel, I did not get it so I am voicing my disappointment with facts and evidence, video games really do have the most rabid fans, but fanboism is unhealthy for any entertainment industry. A discerning audience is what the industry needs first and foremost.
It actually was fine last night for me.
Lots of fun, too.
Linux, you are insufferable.
Played the Witch Doctor this AM. Really enjoyed playing with this class. It is kind of a combo of the best of the necro and Druid from D2 but with better casting ability.
No, no. The ruining part comes from playing with people like you. You'll bitch and moan about every single thing. You're disdain and overall miserable mood brings everyone else down. Not because there are flaws but because a $#@!ty, downtrodden mood is contagious. It's similar to having a anger management needing $#@! on you COD team, or riding in a car with a road rager. Just $#@!s your whole day up.
See, I can play a game that has flaws. I am easy to please. All I want from D3 is a smooth game that gives me a $#@! ton of loot, a challenge, and a lot of replayability. From reading up on the game, it sounds like that is what I'm going to get. By the time I start to get bored of it, Borderlands 2 will come out and will offer the same parameters. So I'm golden for a while.
Last edited by boknowstecmo; 04-21-2012 at 10:05 PM.
There is no doubt that i'm starting with the witch doctor first at launch. I love the style of how he plays.
Look this is the typical relationship between critic and those that read them, by that logic film critics should be stopped because they are downers when they criticize blockbusters, you just want a popcorn movie etc. I love games that I can replay because they have choices and consequences, the ability to decide what I want to do and how that affects the world, Diablo franchise only had one type of C&C and that was leveling up and I argue that it was taken away. To me games is not relaxed escapism, something to tide me over until the next AAA comes out, but artistic entertainment worthy of replaying over and over because it has value in doing so.
In the end I am not stopping you from playing it or enjoying it, unless you kinda agree with me in the end. There are things I like that are critically panned, and I still like them, but that would mostly be my opinion.
Nothing like losing your battle.net authenticator on open beta weekend...
All I know is my preorder is in and I can't wait... also might be time to build a new gaming pc.
Yeah. I played it this weekend with the witch doctor and monk and enjoyed it very much. Also messed around with crafting, a bit, and various spells.
What I found interesting is that unlike a d2 clickfest you have to actually balance your skill usage. For example, when using the Monk one spell drains "spirit" while the other revives it. There are no mana bottles. The difficulty comes into play because it is much harder to kill monsters with only the primary skill and thus you need to learn to use the larger attributes of the character.
No more level 30 frozen orb screen clears - which will be nice. Plus, it will be interesting to play and learn how to master skill combos.
Looking forward to 5/15.
played monk, witch doctor, and barb. enjoyed the monk a lot as well as barb. witch doctor not so much. definitely found the charge and drain mechanic (spirit, monk; fury, barb) interesting.
Now for those that think my negativity is bringing you down, here is a positive development, not that it was difficult but gosh darnit it is an improvement (even if it is easy to implement)
http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/6...ng-than-in-d2/
http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/6...ng-than-in-d2/For some of the most masochistic gamers, playing Diablo II in Hardcore mode was the only way to play. And although death was permanent, the items upon your character could be salvaged provided you had a friend with you during your adventures, who could recover your goods.
The same can't be said for Diablo III, for when your character dies, the items you had equipped are also gone for good. This development prompted some amount of discussion on the official Battle.net forums. Blizzard's Micah Whipple, known as Bashiok on the forums, chimed in on the matter:
I will only play D3 hardcore when somebody cracks the draconian always on DRM. By that time it will probably be free.
1 week. 3am EST will be rough with work at 9 but a good buddy of mine has to fly to atlanta for a week the morning of the 15th and expects me to play from launch until his flight leaves with him.
heso#1616 is my battle.net id. come find me and we'll kill $#@!.
witch doctor, possibly Dr. Feelgood or Doc Holliday, but I know those will be so over used so I might go elsewhere.
I think I start with the Monk and see how I like it. I found it to be much more of a challenge when playing the beta.
Bring it.
GardnerBarn#1669
Prob use something like Chimay or St Bernardus or some other Trappist beer nerd name
I have a feeling I'm going to be really tired on Tuesday. I'll probably start with the monk or the wizard.
What the $#@! is this 2003?
I have a question, as I've never played a diablo game before.
When I complete the story in normal mode for instance, does that experience, character, gold, or anything to do with that play through carry over to my future play throughs on harder difficulties? The reason I ask is because I obviously want to "progress" and get to "end game" stuff some what quickly, and I feel it would be counter productive to smash every barrel on normal mode unless it would benefit me later on.
Edit - I might have answered my own question after doing some reading.
So my demon hunter will be level whatever after finishing normal difficulty. I'll take that level whatever demon hunter and start the next difficulty? I was originally under the impression you always started at level 1, and $#@! was just harder. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Last edited by SLOTH; 05-09-2012 at 10:39 AM.
From my experience in the first two and the little time I spent on the beta, no you don't need to smash everything.
You will finish normal mode at level ~30 at a normal progression rate. Then start nightmare at level 30ish with all of your gear and skills.
Your character will not have all of the skills/runes/passive abilities unlocked until level 60, which should be about the time you finish hell difficulty.
To enter inferno difficulty you will need to be level 60 - this is the max level for your character. In act 1 of inferno the monsters will be level 61, in act 2 they will be 62, and in acts 3 & 4 the monsters will be level 63, making it very difficult.
The way the item drops work in the diablo series is that every barrel you break and every monster you kill can drop almost any item, but bosses/rare monsters have a higher probability of dropping better gear. It's been referred to as the "loot slot machine", not only because what drops from a monster/barrel is randomized, but most of the stats on the items are randomized. So when I break that barrel I may have a 1 in 1,000,000 of it dropping a rare ax. When I kill a boss monster I might have a 1 in 4 chance of a rare ax dropping.
Last edited by heso; 05-09-2012 at 12:47 PM.
During the beta the skeleton king dropped a rare item the first death but never again, or at least it was exceedingly difficult. Making the skeletons before him the preferred run for the lottery gamers. They kill them then reload, kill the skeletons then reload ad infinity.
The skeleton king was set to drop at least one rare (i think specific to the class, it seemed to be when I was playing) on the first kill, and then extremely rarely after that. It is difficult to believe that bosses will almost never drop rare items after the beta. The probabilities I used were completely made up to illustrate my point.
Last edited by heso; 05-09-2012 at 12:58 PM.
Also, the unique items that drop have ranges of values for their stats. Items that are "Perfect", as in the absolute highest value on every stat possible for that Unique were worth 20-100x the value of the same unique with lower stats in D2. It's a slot machine, within a slot machine, within a slot... etc. SIX DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have avoided the D3 Beta. Having read over the class descriptions, a question: I played Paladin in DII, so what should I play in DIII? I liked the adaptable play style of the paladin and it seems most of the new classes are more locked in style wise. So what...barbarian? Demon hunter? Monk?
Monk most likely since they heal and are melee. But they aren't heavily armored like a paladin and rely on dodging attacks. So it depends on what aspect of a paladin you want - team player that heals, or melee brute? Team player that heals = monk, brute = barbarian.
I broke down and pre-ordered today. I'm afraid this might make me absolutely worthless for awhile.
You can download and install but it get's activated May 15?
I'm going back and forth between Witch Doctor and Wizard. I haven't plaid Diablo II in over ten years, so I don't remember most of what made it tick. Just remember being up all night in my dorm room telling myself "I just want to finish this last part". 10 hours alter I'd collapse from exhaustion.
I think I'm leaning more toward Wizard. The videos make the wizard look pretty, pretty, pretty good. But I played a necromancer in D2, so I might go that route.
That's my reading from the website, but I bought it instead of Amazon as I prefer having a physical copy to sell when I'm tired of it or my click fingers get arthritis.
You can download it now. The install will unlock the 14th at 8am PST. You will be able to log in to play at 12:01am PST on the 15th
I for one will be standing in line at Game Stop around 11pm on Monday with a 6 pack of beer.
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