Pet Peeves about being in sales - need to vent

[UofTOrange]

Prospecting is the exact reason why I ran sales teams and didn't want to be the sales person myself anymore. I was always very good at the cold call both in person and over the phone, I could teach it. What I sucked at was making myself enjoy/do the cold call. Absolutely hate it. Getting up every day to be hung up on, not called back or getting cussed out in person (very rarely, but still) was not my idea of fun. Some people have it, just wasn't for me long term.

[Snacks]

I haven't personally "suffered" in terms of compensation/ownership, so "touchy" is a bit of stretch. I do think the opportunity for salespeople to hit compensation home runs while engineers are lucky to leg out a double is extremely inequitable. I don't think the differences in compensation accurately reflect the importance to most companies.

Wall Street / stockholders expect growth. Salespeople get paid to grow the revenue of the company, which is why salespeople get paid so much. If your patented technology "sold itself" you'd be hitting grand slams on your own - at every at bat. IBM has thousands upon thousands of patents and spends millions and billions on R&D, but "Smarter Planets" do not sell themselves, even if they are technologically kick-ass.

I am an odd bird... I love hunting/prospecting/finding new avenues for business. Any success that I have is a direct result of creative and thorough prospecting.

I also realized early on this is one of the components that is totally in my control. Being able to manage/control this process allows me to hold my self accountable for the desired results that I want to achieve.

I know a few people like this. They love to "call into" and they hate to walk the deal and be strategically customer-focused. It's weird. Sometimes I wish I could hire someone to be my personal inside sales force and pay them purely on quality meetings booked. Instead, I have inside sales people who don't get paid unless they close the deal on their own. Which is valuable to an extent, but I have to "wait" for their campaign to end.

Prospecting is the exact reason why I ran sales teams and didn't want to be the sales person myself anymore. I was always very good at the cold call both in person and over the phone, I could teach it. What I sucked at was making myself enjoy/do the cold call. Absolutely hate it. Getting up every day to be hung up on, not called back or getting cussed out in person (very rarely, but still) was not my idea of fun. Some people have it, just wasn't for me long term.

My first sales manager was never a sales person prior to managing the sales team. He had the best job. Make $200k to motivate the team, work deals with the team, advocate for the team, report to management for the team, tell the team to prospect...

My current sales manager still prospects (he's been manager about a year and our territory has 3 reps, all who've been in territory a year or less..)

When you know your value prop and your sales methodology, prospecting isn't so bad. Right now, I'm new to the industry, the solution, the customer set, my company, everything... I'm struggling to even know what the hell I'm talking about on some days, and when I think I have it figured out, something (or someone) changes.

Whatever. Don't get outsold.

[jimmyjazz]

Wall Street / stockholders expect growth. Salespeople get paid to grow the revenue of the company, which is why salespeople get paid so much. If your patented technology "sold itself" you'd be hitting grand slams on your own - at every at bat. IBM has thousands upon thousands of patents and spends millions and billions on R&D, but "Smarter Planets" do not sell themselves, even if they are technologically kick-ass.

I understand the rationalization. I don't agree with it. I will never agree with it. You and every other salesperson who has tried to convince me otherwise has (and will) fail. The system puts a disproportionate emphasis on certain roles, and the people involved like to tell themselves this is so because they possess a highly differentiated, rare skillset. I completely disagree. Furthermore, they like to tell themselves that certain technology skills are not only not rare but incredibly common, and this is also not the case.

[texasdago]

I am an odd bird... I love hunting/prospecting/finding new avenues for business. Any success that I have is a direct result of creative and thorough prospecting.

I don't know that I love it but it's hard not to enjoy the potential reward. I just lined up an appointment at MTV/Nickolodeon to at least get conversations going with them. It's cool to be able to start laying the groundwork for a potential client like that. Nothing has closed - the opportunity isn't even defined but at least I'm on the radar. Besides, maybe I can go hang out with Pauly D.

[Gardner Barnes]

I understand the rationalization. I don't agree with it. I will never agree with it. You and every other salesperson who has tried to convince me otherwise has (and will) fail. The system puts a disproportionate emphasis on certain roles, and the people involved like to tell themselves this is so because they possess a highly differentiated, rare skillset. I completely disagree. Furthermore, they like to tell themselves that certain technology skills are not only not rare but incredibly common, and this is also not the case.

It may suck but as a business owner you can pay the going rate for proven talent with skins on the wall or do it yourself.

Remember that you can always outsource R&D, engineering, and other non relationship activities to India.

Not sure you can outsource what we do and until you find a way to do so, the rate for sales will always trump the rate for engineers and product development.

[Hellraiser97]

I understand the rationalization. I don't agree with it. I will never agree with it. You and every other salesperson who has tried to convince me otherwise has (and will) fail. The system puts a disproportionate emphasis on certain roles, and the people involved like to tell themselves this is so because they possess a highly differentiated, rare skillset. I completely disagree. Furthermore, they like to tell themselves that certain technology skills are not only not rare but incredibly common, and this is also not the case.

It comes down to this difference:

Great engineering team + mediocre sales = bankrupt
mediocre engineering team + great sales team = massive profit.

It may not be fair, but that is the way the world works.

[Snacks]

I understand the rationalization. I don't agree with it. I will never agree with it. You and every other salesperson who has tried to convince me otherwise has (and will) fail. The system puts a disproportionate emphasis on certain roles, and the people involved like to tell themselves this is so because they possess a highly differentiated, rare skillset. I completely disagree. Furthermore, they like to tell themselves that certain technology skills are not only not rare but incredibly common, and this is also not the case.

I'm not even trying to convince you... just making the point of how the perception (whether correct or not) has become the reality. Technology skills are much more rare than sales skills, but in the world of profit, that's not how the ball bounces (as you're aware.)

[jimmyjazz]

Remember that you can always outsource R&D, engineering, and other non relationship activities to India.

Not always you can't. It's exactly this sort of generalization that is offensive to those whom you see as essentially a commodity.

[Gardner Barnes]

Not always you can't. It's exactly this sort of generalization that is offensive to those whom you see as essentially a commodity.

Ok. Well the fact remains that you can't outsource AE type sales effectively so until you find a way to do that you are not going to see sales salary arbitrage like you see in the nerdery.

Those of us who know what we are doing are justifiably paid for it. If you don't pay me, I'll take my talents and your contacts elsewhere.

[jimmyjazz]

It comes down to this difference:

Great engineering team + mediocre sales = bankrupt
mediocre engineering team + great sales team = massive profit.

It may not be fair, but that is the way the world works.

I don't agree with this at all. In fact, I doubt you can prove it without resorting to random anecdotal examples (Microsoft, GM, VHS over Beta) that hardly exist in a vacuum. In general, the better the product, the higher the profit.

Tell me this: why do certain Sales organizations routinely lean on Engineering or Applications Engineering to customize their way into an order, and yet they don't share the commission? If I SPECIFICALLY help your ass bank $20K, how about a reach-around? You want to talk about "driving revenue" yet it's funny how the salesman gets all the compensation for orders he couldn't book without the help of other people in the organization.

[Fico]

What I've learned from this thread today:


Engineers:









Salesmen:

[Gardner Barnes]

I don't agree with this at all. In fact, I doubt you can prove it without resorting to random anecdotal examples (Microsoft, GM, VHS over Beta) that hardly exist in a vacuum. In general, the better the product, the higher the profit.

Tell me this: why do certain Sales organizations routinely lean on Engineering or Applications Engineering to customize their way into an order, and yet they don't share the commission? If I SPECIFICALLY help your ass bank $20K, how about a reach-around? You want to talk about "driving revenue" yet it's funny how the salesman gets all the compensation for orders he couldn't book without the help of other people in the organization.

First of all, in my business you get fired for kickback $#@! (see point 3 below, though)

2nd if I don't sell, I am out of a job. You aren't.

3rd, I take care of my SCs - I just bought one a fuxking Kimber super carry pro under the table. OTOH, the product dev and marketing people are usually $#@!ing idiots who slow the process down.

[jimmyjazz]

First of all, on my business you get fired for that $#@!.

What $#@!? You'd get fired if your company instituted a plan to distribute commissions to everyone who directly enabled an order? What, is that illegal?

[Gardner Barnes]

What $#@!? You'd get fired if your company instituted a plan to distribute commissions to everyone who directly enabled an order? What, is that illegal?

No. But if the plan is not there, kickbacks and side letters are very very verboten

The plan is never there.

Perhaps engineering is bringing value, however, at the end of the day this is a numbers and performance world and the most obvious bringer of those numbers is the sales team.

TL/DR summary: u mad?

[Gardner Barnes]

Finally if I was required to share commissions there is no $#@!ing way I would take that job.

Your talent pool would diminish greatly and you would be stuck with a bunch of IBM leftover C talent.

[jimmyjazz]

Perhaps engineering is bringing value

"Perhaps"? Ha. $#@! you.

at the end of the day this is a numbers and performer world and the most obvious bring of those numbers is the sales team.

There are a lot of things in this world which exist or existed for far too long "because that's just the way it is". I'll cite racism and hazing as 2 examples. Your attitude is hardly new.

Like I said, I have been handsomely rewarded for my contributions. Others haven't been. I tire of seeing them bust ass to help the sales team out and then get absolutely no reward for their work. Please, continue with the tired meme in retort.

[Gardner Barnes]

"Perhaps"? Ha. $#@! you.




There are a lot of things in this world which exist or existed for far too long "because that's just the way it is". I'll cite racism and hazing as 2 examples. Your attitude is hardly new.

Like I said, I have been handsomely rewarded for my contributions. Others haven't been. I tire of seeing them bust ass to help the sales team out and then get absolutely no reward for their work. Please, continue with the tired meme in retort.

Tell them to get into sales and quit bitching.

[jimmyjazz]

Tell them to get into sales and quit bitching.

They'd sell far better than most salesmen could develop product.

[Gardner Barnes]

They'd sell far better than most salesmen could develop product.

I look forward to an influx of product guys into my business. Can't wait to see it.

Although you would think that such "smart" people should have seen where the money is long ago.

[Hellraiser97]

I don't agree with this at all. In fact, I doubt you can prove it without resorting to random anecdotal examples (Microsoft, GM, VHS over Beta) that hardly exist in a vacuum. In general, the better the product, the higher the profit.

Tell me this: why do certain Sales organizations routinely lean on Engineering or Applications Engineering to customize their way into an order, and yet they don't share the commission? If I SPECIFICALLY help your ass bank $20K, how about a reach-around? You want to talk about "driving revenue" yet it's funny how the salesman gets all the compensation for orders he couldn't book without the help of other people in the organization.

Of course you have to lean on Engineering to customize and order. THAT'S PART OF THE SALES JOB. No one said that engineers weren't important, you wouldn't have a product without them, nor did I say that the engineers shouldn't be compensated for going that extra mile when it helps a sale.

You are completely wrong about 'In general, the better the product, the higher the profit.' A better product most certainly will make the job easier for sales, but a great sales person with an average product is going beat an average sales person with a mediocre product most of the time. And I include marketing in this generic 'sales.' We can could probably fill up and crash shaggy's servers with lists of superior products that lost out to lesser competition due to sales and marketing.

[jimmyjazz]

In all honesty, I believe there are aspects of sales that justify somewhat higher compensation relative to the value realized, and they're mostly related to travel and lifestyle. I wouldn't take that kind of job for anything less than a 50% raise over what I make now, if even that. I don't see how guys with families do it.

[housious]

What I've learned from this thread today:


Engineers:









Salesmen:

This x's 10

[ousuxndallas]

I'll jump in since I'm not an engineer or a salesperson, but deal with both every day.

The engineer shouldn't get the commission. They are salaried. Some sort of profit sharing, maybe.

Good salesmen earn $0 salary and 100% commission (eat what they kill). If they don't sell, they have no income.

Risk should be rewarded. Salesmen take huge risk, engineers do not.

If engineers don't like it, change professions or start your own company where you can make the rules. I understand salesmen can be douches and never say "no" to a customer, make their engineers jump through hoops, etc. But that's what engineers get paid a SALARY to do: solve problems, R&D, etc.

Finally, there are countless examples of companies with great products that fail because they don't execute the right sales strategy. So, a company's success is not 100% reliant on the quality of the product.

There's my $0.02 from a finance guy.

[jimmyjazz]

Good salesmen earn $0 salary and 100% commission

Really? Not in my world. In my industry the salesmen have a base salary roughly equal to that of an engineer 10 years out of school.

If engineers don't like it, change professions or start your own company where you can make the rules.

You forgot "lie back and enjoy it." God forbid someone state the opinion that the status quo is $#@!ed up.

So, a company's success is not 100% reliant on the quality of the product.

Never said it was.

[Fico]

Really? Not in my world. In my industry the salesmen have a base salary roughly equal to that of an engineer 10 years out of school

Can I come work sales for your company? Six figure salary and its not tied directly to sales performance. Where do I sign up? Seriously.

I would change industries in a heart beat.

[drew corleone]

I am an odd bird... I love hunting/prospecting/finding new avenues for business. Any success that I have is a direct result of creative and thorough prospecting.

I also realized early on this is one of the components that is totally in my control. Being able to manage/control this process allows me to hold my self accountable for the desired results that I want to achieve.

As an account director for a company that does b-to-b lead gen/sales support, I wish I could get my employees to buy into/understand this.

[Gardner Barnes]

Can I come work sales for your company? Six figure salary and its not tied directly to sales performance. Where do I sign up? Seriously.

I would change industries in a heart beat.

Only if you are a product guy.

[jimmyjazz]

Six figure? No. But not insubstantial.

[CutTheCrackJack]

I'll jump in since I'm not an engineer or a salesperson, but deal with both every day.

The engineer shouldn't get the commission. They are salaried. Some sort of profit sharing, maybe.

Good salesmen earn $0 salary and 100% commission (eat what they kill). If they don't sell, they have no income.

Risk should be rewarded. Salesmen take huge risk, engineers do not.

If engineers don't like it, change professions or start your own company where you can make the rules. I understand salesmen can be douches and never say "no" to a customer, make their engineers jump through hoops, etc. But that's what engineers get paid a SALARY to do: solve problems, R&D, etc.

Finally, there are countless examples of companies with great products that fail because they don't execute the right sales strategy. So, a company's success is not 100% reliant on the quality of the product.

There's my $0.02 from a finance guy.

I'm not sure, maybe someone else can answer, but I've never heard of a sales job worth it's salt that didn't have a base salary associated with it.

But my personal opinion is that you are right about the risk thing. A mentor of mine told me a long time ago- you earn the real money when you put the "X" on your back. Every sales guy (including EVP of Sales) from the first day they walk into a company has an X on their back and an expiration date.

[Gardner Barnes]

Six figure? No. But not insubstantial.

Wondering why 75000 was changed to not insubstantial.

[jimmyjazz]

Wondering why 75000 was changed to not insubstantial.

Because I realized my information is several years old.

[Hellraiser97]

I'm not sure, maybe someone else can answer, but I've never heard of a sales job worth it's salt that didn't have a base salary associated with it.

Stockbroker. At least after the first year, 100% commission where I worked.

[Gardner Barnes]

Stockbroker. At least after the first year, 100% commission where I worked.

Most CRE also

[riloh05]

I'll jump in since I'm not an engineer or a salesperson, but deal with both every day.

The engineer shouldn't get the commission. They are salaried. Some sort of profit sharing, maybe.

Good salesmen earn $0 salary and 100% commission (eat what they kill). If they don't sell, they have no income.

Risk should be rewarded. Salesmen take huge risk, engineers do not.

If engineers don't like it, change professions or start your own company where you can make the rules. I understand salesmen can be douches and never say "no" to a customer, make their engineers jump through hoops, etc. But that's what engineers get paid a SALARY to do: solve problems, R&D, etc.

Finally, there are countless examples of companies with great products that fail because they don't execute the right sales strategy. So, a company's success is not 100% reliant on the quality of the product.

There's my $0.02 from a finance guy.

Going to be difficult to hire a successful sales guy with that line of thought. A 6 figure base salary is just a way to ease my pain sliding over to a new organization and starting from scratch. Hate to be an ass, but when closing millions of dollars in revenue your 100k salary offer still means I have a lot of work a head of me.

I have stated there are many layers to sales positions and not are created equal...
0 salary 100% commish, roofing sales, window sales, insurance sales, real estate, etc...
24k-40k salary- churn and burn sales-- local telcom, advertising(living social, reach local, etc)- 1 call 2 call close monthly quota biz, small medium size biz
45-65k salary decent sales gig good opportunity for a career building position- longer sales cycle 90-120 days
65k-85k ok salary, career salesmen, seperate the pretenders to performers, longer sales cycle, intermidiate on complex solution, proven track record
100k salary- large deals, long sales sales cycle, complex solution, different buyers, proven performer

This is not totally accurate but a quick breakdown of the different level of sales.

[texasdago]

The engineer shouldn't get the commission. They are salaried. Some sort of profit sharing, maybe.

Good salesmen earn $0 salary and 100% commission (eat what they kill). If they don't sell, they have no income.

Risk should be rewarded. Salesmen take huge risk, engineers do not.

uh... yup! I have a bad month, quarter, whatever... I'll "feel" it.

As for the comment, " I've never heard of a sales job worth it's salt that didn't have a base salary associated with it." well, look carefully. I'm 100% commission. I take the risk and I am pretty comfortable.

[Gardner Barnes]

I'd add telesales to the 65-85 list.

Most 10+ year/billion total rev (verifiable) IT Sales guys can get 175-200 base including car allowance.

That puts OTE at 350 usually.

Consulting BizDev guys with 10 years experience and a Rolodex usually run in the 200-250 and 500 OTE.

[texasdago]

I have stated there are many layers to sales positions and not are created equal...
0 salary 100% commish, roofing sales, window sales, insurance sales, real estate, etc...
24k-40k salary- churn and burn sales-- local telcom, advertising(living social, reach local, etc)- 1 call 2 call close monthly quota biz, small medium size biz
45-65k salary decent sales gig good opportunity for a career building position- longer sales cycle 90-120 days
65k-85k ok salary, career salesmen, seperate the pretenders to performers, longer sales cycle, intermidiate on complex solution, proven track record
100k salary- large deals, long sales sales cycle, complex solution, different buyers, proven performer

Broad brush, there.

I'm 100% commission - I'm not selling roofing or some insurance products to Viacom, Bloomberg, the WSJ or The Economist. Readjust your line of thinking.

[riloh05]

Broad brush, there.

I'm 100% commission - I'm not selling roofing or some insurance products to Viacom, Bloomberg, the WSJ or The Economist. Readjust your line of thinking.

Yes I was being very vague/quick with that description. I have followed your postings and do not doubt that you could pull down a six figure salary if you chose to go in that direction. I am sure you knew what you were doing when it came to your comp plan and $$ discussions. However, if you got to any of the online job boards you will probably find the 100% commish jobs to be the exact opposite of what you are doing.

[pescado_rojo]

uh... yup! I have a bad month, quarter, whatever... I'll "feel" it.

As for the comment, " I've never heard of a sales job worth it's salt that didn't have a base salary associated with it." well, look carefully. I'm 100% commission. I take the risk and I am pretty comfortable.

When I was on the OEM side of the telecom business, I had a couple of big business partners who had guys pulling down $500K plus, and they were on a 100% commission, margin leveraged comp plan. Most of them had started out early smiling and dialing, and had built their own book of business. Business which just about all of them would have taken with them to a compeating VAR if they ever got pissed or got a substantially better offer.

[Gardner Barnes]

Yes I was being very vague/quick with that description. I have followed your postings and do not doubt that you could pull down a six figure salary if you chose to go in that direction. I am sure you knew what you were doing when it came to your comp plan and $$ discussions. However, if you got to any of the online job boards you will probably find the 100% commish jobs to be the exact opposite of what you are doing.

I want to hire dago to be my latex salesman.

[texasdago]

Yes I was being very vague/quick with that description. I have followed your postings and do not doubt that you could pull down a six figure salary if you chose to go in that direction. I am sure you knew what you were doing when it came to your comp plan and $$ discussions. However, if you got to any of the online job boards you will probably find the 100% commish jobs to be the exact opposite of what you are doing.

...and don't get me wrong... I wouldn't mind a six figure base + comp to get me to beyond where I am. At the same time, I really enjoy my job and I have a vested interest in staying. Besides, my hours are fairly flexible and I rarely have to wear anything nice than workout gear unless I'm meeting a client locally or flying somewhere to meet with several clients. My job allows me to go overseas for 3 weeks of a working vacation and that's something that most of those six figure base jobs wouldn't allow.

[ldogg53]

Going to be difficult to hire a successful sales guy with that line of thought. A 6 figure base salary is just a way to ease my pain sliding over to a new organization and starting from scratch. Hate to be an ass, but when closing millions of dollars in revenue your 100k salary offer still means I have a lot of work a head of me.

I have stated there are many layers to sales positions and not are created equal...
0 salary 100% commish, roofing sales, window sales, insurance sales, real estate, etc...
24k-40k salary- churn and burn sales-- local telcom, advertising(living social, reach local, etc)- 1 call 2 call close monthly quota biz, small medium size biz
45-65k salary decent sales gig good opportunity for a career building position- longer sales cycle 90-120 days
65k-85k ok salary, career salesmen, seperate the pretenders to performers, longer sales cycle, intermidiate on complex solution, proven track record
100k salary- large deals, long sales sales cycle, complex solution, different buyers, proven performer

This is not totally accurate but a quick breakdown of the different level of sales.

pretty accurate though...

I can remember having these sorts of discussions when I was at UT. I had a lot of buddies that were in engineering and the would act superior to us in the Business School. They were all hyped up on earning $45-55k salaries when graduating when only accounting or finance could hope to get that in biz school. I used to tell them that their ceilings were way lower than those of us in business. Sure for the first 3-5 years out of school they'd earn more, but after that the opportunities in business greatly outweighed engineering.

[riloh05]

...and don't get me wrong... I wouldn't mind a six figure base + comp to get me to beyond where I am. At the same time, I really enjoy my job and I have a vested interest in staying. Besides, my hours are fairly flexible and I rarely have to wear anything nice than workout gear unless I'm meeting a client locally or flying somewhere to meet with several clients. My job allows me to go overseas for 3 weeks of a working vacation and that's something that most of those six figure base jobs wouldn't allow.

You would be surprised what some high level sales jobs would be willing to do. I do not wear a suit nor have I in 2.5 years. My fancy wear is slacks and a polo. If I cant close in slacks and a polo, I do not know if I want them as a client lol. In the office now in shorts, shirt, and some tennis shoes.

[CutTheCrackJack]

If you are 100% commission are W4 or 1099? I would think that would be like an independent contractor or independent sales rep. Again, I'm not nearly as seasoned as most of you guys.

[Gardner Barnes]

If you are 100% commission are W4 or 1099? I would think that would be like an independent contractor or independent sales rep. Again, I'm not nearly as seasoned as most of you guys.

I don't think so. Most of the 0/100 guys I know still get benefits and commissions have withholding, although I am sure you can opt out of that.

[Gardner Barnes]

You would be surprised what some high level sales jobs would be willing to do. I do not wear a suit nor have I in 2.5 years. My fancy wear is slacks and a polo. If I cant close in slacks and a polo, I do not know if I want them as a client lol. In the office now in shorts, shirt, and some tennis shoes.

I unfortunately wear suits. Company culture on the East side of the Mississippi.

[Snacks]

Can I come work sales for your company? Six figure salary and its not tied directly to sales performance. Where do I sign up? Seriously.

I would change industries in a heart beat.

Yeah... but you better sell something - quick. Trust me.

I'm not sure, maybe someone else can answer, but I've never heard of a sales job worth it's salt that didn't have a base salary associated with it.

But my personal opinion is that you are right about the risk thing. A mentor of mine told me a long time ago- you earn the real money when you put the "X" on your back. Every sales guy (including EVP of Sales) from the first day they walk into a company has an X on their back and an expiration date.

X = $

Going to be difficult to hire a successful sales guy with that line of thought. A 6 figure base salary is just a way to ease my pain sliding over to a new organization and starting from scratch. Hate to be an ass, but when closing millions of dollars in revenue your 100k salary offer still means I have a lot of work a head of me.

I have stated there are many layers to sales positions and not are created equal...
0 salary 100% commish, roofing sales, window sales, insurance sales, real estate, etc...
24k-40k salary- churn and burn sales-- local telcom, advertising(living social, reach local, etc)- 1 call 2 call close monthly quota biz, small medium size biz
45-65k salary decent sales gig good opportunity for a career building position- longer sales cycle 90-120 days
65k-85k ok salary, career salesmen, seperate the pretenders to performers, longer sales cycle, intermidiate on complex solution, proven track record
100k salary- large deals, long sales sales cycle, complex solution, different buyers, proven performer

This is not totally accurate but a quick breakdown of the different level of sales.

I'm trying to jump from this...

Most 10+ year/billion total rev (verifiable) IT Sales guys can get 175-200 base including car allowance.

That puts OTE at 350 usually.

Consulting BizDev guys with 10 years experience and a Rolodex usually run in the 200-250 and 500 OTE.

To this... I get the car allowance, but I don't have 10 years of sales...

GB and I are looking at it from the IT industry, mostly. Yes, you will have a base salary of $100k+ to sell enterprise software. Your on target is going to be anywhere from $200k to $250k. And it's not "easy". Just like developing a one-of-a-kind technology isn't easy. But guess, what? In sales, when you bust your balls to make the number for this year, you get to celebrate for about 38 minutes, then you realize you're going to have a larger quota next year... or a new territory... or maybe a new job or promotion... whatever the case, you're starting back at zero. It's not rocket surgery, but it feels like it sometimes.

Like I said, when I got my MBA, I was coming from the technical side of software... I did the executive MBA and the smartest people in the room were the sales people... I went from thinking salespeople are slick $#@! willies used car sellers to wanting to be one.

and I like to wear suits... i've always worn one in front of a customer - even before i was a slick $#@! willie*.







*not to be confused with Sweet $#@! Willie

[Snacks]

My (current) real issue is a non-existent rolodex in my territory and vertical. Thus the prospecting rant... which has turned into a Sales v. R&D discussion.

[jimmyjazz]

Yeah... but you better sell something - quick. Trust me.

Somebody needs to sell something.

[Gardner Barnes]

you get to celebrate for about 38 minutes, then you realize you're going to have a larger quota next year... or a new territory... or maybe a new job or promotion... whatever the case, you're starting back at zero

I don't think people understand this point. Especially if they have not experienced it.

In 2009 I did a 1.1 billion dollar all you can eat deal (3 year ELA) on a 150MM quota with my sole customer.

This basically meant the company was sold out until 2012.

My 2010 quota? 750 MM.

Seriously.

$#@!. That and $#@! you IBM. Thanks for nothing, $#@!s.

Right now I am on a plane to Tampa. I will be on this business trip till Friday afternoon. 2 weeks from now I will be on another business trip while missing my daughters birthday to take customers to the TPC in Jacksonville.

So to whiny engineers I say $#@! you. I earn every penny I make and then some - in fact I am underpaid.

When you are home in your biscuit I am taking our bitch ass customers to a dinner in some god forsaken Florida $#@!hole and listening to them bitch about why our products ( that you developed) dont perform as well as company Xs products and negotiating with them to not to buy into company Xs sales bull$#@! and leave a multi-million dollar annual maintenance stream that I get NO credit on.

I grant that you built this $#@!.

I also grant that you have no $#@!ing idea what you are talking about as it pertains to the job of the people on this thread.