Joined: 04 Dec 2008 Posts: 1719 Location: Breaking the law...ville
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject:
I've heard JJ echoe the same sentiments, but Nirvana was huge before Cobain's suicide. MTV was Madonna and hairbands before Smells Like Teen Spirit entered rotation, and almost all grunge afterwards, within a matter of weeks.
I think Nirvana would have tracked the same career arc as Pearl Jam -- megastars to comfortable experimentalists. And I would have loved to hear it. I feel ripped off, but certainly not so much as his daughter and his loathesome wife.
Courtney Love murdered Kurt Cobain. No doubt in my mind. The amount of shit in his body, he couldn't pick up a pencil much less a shotgun.
Had he not been killed or eventually die by his hands (i.e. drugs), Nirvana would have been a modern day Beatles. Incredible song writer and awesome performer. Wish list of shows; Nirvana Unplugged.
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 7476 Location: Raising the Schlong Army
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:53 am Post subject:
The only good thing to come from Cobain was Dave Grohl and thus, the Foo Fighters. Otherwise, grunge is one of the worst forms of rock to come about and I'm glad it didn't last long.
Good video, Mike_Tyson. Eddie Vedder never did that. Cobain sang with the heart of a classic blues/folk singer, but he had the pop instincts of Lennon & McCartney, and the ear of a punk.
Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 3097 Location: BCS purgatory
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:38 am Post subject:
jtk1519 wrote:
The only good thing to come from Cobain was Dave Grohl and thus, the Foo Fighters. Otherwise, grunge is one of the worst forms of rock to come about and I'm glad it didn't last long.
Haha. Thats a good one. For a minute I thought you actually think the Foo Fighters are better than Nirvana. You had me there.
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 3815 Location: Not watching the Texans on KEYE
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:51 am Post subject:
It was 1990 give or take I don't remember
when the news of revolution hit the air
The girls hadn't even started taking down our posters
when the boys started cutting off their hair
The radio stations all decided angst was finally old enough
it ought to have a proper home
Dead fat or rich nobody's left to bitch
about the goings' on in self destructive zones
I don't know that they could have kept it up, but from a purely selfish standpoint, I'll take what Dave Grohl has done with the Foo Fighters over what Cobain could have done with Nirvana.
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 9900 Location: dirty souf austin
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:18 am Post subject:
drew corleone wrote:
I don't know that they could have kept it up, but from a purely selfish standpoint, I'll take what Dave Grohl has done with the Foo Fighters over what Cobain could have done with Nirvana.
this is honestly crazy talk to me. grohl's lyrics are pedantic. his song structures are boring and repetitive. i honestly cannot believe how many people actually LIKE the foo fighters who are actual fans of music and not 101x slaves. it boggles the mind. grohl is a talented musician, and a very, very, VERY fucking very mediocre song writer. my hero? BAH. you have got to be kidding me.
as for impact on music, nirvana is unparalleled. i voted in the "seattle band" thread for pearl jam, because at the time, they were the band with which i identified. now, i'm not so sure.
nirvana's frenetic energy, need, brashness, defiance, arrogance, and a trait i call "go-fuck-yourself-if-you-don't-like-us..." these things made nirvana. and ultimately, they made the foo fighters, who are a shell of the artists that were part of nirvana.
kobain reminds me a lot of cash. don't laugh. he had a simple, solid, bassy, song structure, strong lyrics, and a devil may care attitude that transcends generations.
if cobain went sober, i can only hope he followed the arc of cash as opposed to weiland. the problem was courtney love. she was such a fucking enabler as opposed to saint june carter cash, who wouldn't put up with any of that shit.
such a shame to lose someone so fucking special. i mocked his death at the time, and i mocked the (primarily manufactured) grief at the time.
but as i grow older, his influence on music is undeniable. and his legend is no doubt influenced by "what could have been," but nonetheless, what he did at the time he did it was remarkable.
The only good thing to come from Cobain was Dave Grohl and thus, the Foo Fighters. Otherwise, grunge is one of the worst forms of rock to come about and I'm glad it didn't last long.
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 10231 Location: Scranton, Pennsylvania
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:30 am Post subject:
hayden_horn wrote:
this is honestly crazy talk to me. grohl's lyrics are pedantic. his song structures are boring and repetitive. i honestly cannot believe how many people actually LIKE the foo fighters who are actual fans of music and not 101x slaves. it boggles the mind. grohl is a talented musician, and a very, very, VERY fucking very mediocre song writer. my hero? BAH. you have got to be kidding me.
as for impact on music, nirvana is unparalleled. i voted in the "seattle band" thread for pearl jam, because at the time, they were the band with which i identified. now, i'm not so sure.
nirvana's frenetic energy, need, brashness, defiance, arrogance, and a trait i call "go-fuck-yourself-if-you-don't-like-us..." these things made nirvana. and ultimately, they made the foo fighters, who are a shell of the artists that were part of nirvana.
kobain reminds me a lot of cash. don't laugh. he had a simple, solid, bassy, song structure, strong lyrics, and a devil may care attitude that transcends generations.
if cobain went sober, i can only hope he followed the arc of cash as opposed to weiland. the problem was courtney love. she was such a fucking enabler as opposed to saint june carter cash, who wouldn't put up with any of that shit.
such a shame to lose someone so fucking special. i mocked his death at the time, and i mocked the (primarily manufactured) grief at the time.
but as i grow older, his influence on music is undeniable. and his legend is no doubt influenced by "what could have been," but nonetheless, what he did at the time he did it was remarkable.
truly an icon.
foo fighters. bah. grohl. gavin says hi.
SPLAPPA.
if you never posted on or read a game thread, Splappa is a term that Scott Van Pelt (I believe) coined, and it is a mixture of funny and retarded, much like HOLLA! Also much like HOLLA! I used it often when AJ or Damion would nail a 3. In this case, just picture AJ coming off of a screen, turning, firing, and watching ass the ball goes on a heat-seeking-missle-like path towards and through the bottom of the net. Splappa. This post, above mine: Splappa. He nailed it.
go fuck yourself. if you disagree, at least have the stones to come up with SOMETHING, as opposed to this ridiculous retort.
Whatever. Your perspective would be so much more enjoyable to read if it wasn't wrapped up in so much self-righteous bullshit. I'm not going to apologize for liking Dave Grohl's music, now do I feel the need to defend your assertion that he's a pedantic songwriter.
You compare Grohl to Gavin Rosdale, call Foo Fighters' fans "101X slaves," and then call my retort "ridiculous"? Get the fuck over yourself.
this is honestly crazy talk to me. grohl's lyrics are pedantic. his song structures are boring and repetitive. i honestly cannot believe how many people actually LIKE the foo fighters who are actual fans of music and not 101x slaves. it boggles the mind. grohl is a talented musician, and a very, very, VERY fucking very mediocre song writer. my hero? BAH. you have got to be kidding me.
I don't think it has to be either/or. Certainly Grohl's lyrics aren't in the same league as Cobain's, but Grohl has an interesting (and different) ear for melody and harmony I find almost as interesting. And, as a player, he runs rings around Cobain, even on guitar.
But yes, Cobain is Neil Young to Dave Grohl's Phil Collins. I just happen to like Phil Collins. (Not as much as I like Dave Grohl, but it's late, and you get the point.)
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 9900 Location: dirty souf austin
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:58 am Post subject:
drew corleone wrote:
Whatever. Your perspective would be so much more enjoyable to read if it wasn't wrapped up in so much self-righteous bullshit. I'm not going to apologize for liking Dave Grohl's music, now do I feel the need to defend your assertion that he's a pedantic songwriter.
You compare Grohl to Gavin Rosdale, call Foo Fighters' fans "101X slaves," and then call my retort "ridiculous"? Get the fuck over yourself.
there's nothing wrong with pedantic songwriters. i like me some jimmy buffet. i won't apologize for that, but i won't claim it is some kind of advancement for music.
my hero is a bad song. i'm picking on it for a reason. it is terrible. it has ten or twelve refrains. maybe more. i've not counted, because i usually get bored and change the channel.
melody? harmony? whatever? musically it is an interesting song. lyrically, it is shit.
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 7476 Location: Raising the Schlong Army
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:04 am Post subject:
hobbes2702 wrote:
I don't like Foo or Nirvana very much but damn was that a stupid statement. Cobain changed music as we know it and the Foo Fighters just blow
Barry Bonds changed baseball as we know it... doesn't mean that change was a good one. I'll give Cobain credit for being a decent and original songwriter, but his efforts almost single-handedly gave rise to an insufferable wave of marginally talented, emo idiots in flannel. Ergo, Cobain's contributions to music are positive in that he helped bring to an end the retarded glam-metal days which were only slightly more unoriginal and generic than grunge rock, but his contributions are negative in that he brought about grunge rock... one of the darkest eras (figuratively and literally) in rock history.
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 9900 Location: dirty souf austin
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:01 am Post subject:
jtk1519 wrote:
Barry Bonds changed baseball as we know it... doesn't mean that change was a good one. I'll give Cobain credit for being a decent and original songwriter, but his efforts almost single-handedly gave rise to an insufferable wave of marginally talented, emo idiots in flannel. Ergo, Cobain's contributions to music are positive in that he helped bring to an end the retarded glam-metal days which were only slightly more unoriginal and generic than grunge rock, but his contributions are negative in that he brought about grunge rock... one of the darkest eras (figuratively and literally) in rock history.
what are you fucking kidding?
grunge was the effective bridge that was necessary.
as for your reference to emo idiots in flannel? come on. of course they were emo, and of course they wore the costume. there's always the costume.
but grunge rock was not a dark time in history. the glam metal time was. grunge was a renaissance, because it burned bright, did what it could in a short amount of time, and allowed for other influences to grab onto its inertian and hang on for dear life until the felt bold enough to jump off.
grunge was never meant to stay. but it was what needed to happen. and it was glorious. to deride that is folly.
Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 11614 Location: The nurturing biosphere of the mothership.
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:31 am Post subject:
there are only a handful of moments that changed the course and direction of rock and roll music. seminal, defining moments. Beatles on Sullivan. Hendrix at Monterey. the release of Never Mind The Bullocks. the first time Teen Spirit hit the airwaves.
there's no use comparing Nirvana and Pearl Jam. it's like comparing the Beatles and the Stones. there isn't a comparison. sure, you can argue over who was better musically. but when it comes to which band is more import, it's always the Beatles, and it's always Nirvana. they were game-changers.
and for those who can't stand grunge, i just wonder if you were around when it happened. were you an 18 year old kid in 1991 when Teen Spirit was first played on the radio? did you endure the 80s music scene? grunge hit you in the face like a ton of bricks compared to the crap that was popular at the time. it's hard to explain it to somebody who wasn't there.
the most memorable concert in the history of Dallas:
Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 2141 Location: Altar of sacrifice
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:08 am Post subject:
Cobain was a genius when it came to writing pop songs and singing them genuinely in a punk band. Nirvana is definitely a top three band for me.
As I said on the best grunge thread, a friend and I broke the album Nevermind for Austin when we were late-night djs at KTSB. Got it in the press package, opened it up when it was just laying there at 1:00 am, and played it nonstop for the entire show.
Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 2141 Location: Altar of sacrifice
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:13 am Post subject:
Mike_Tyson wrote:
Courtney Love murdered Kurt Cobain. No doubt in my mind. The amount of shit in his body, he couldn't pick up a pencil much less a shotgun.
Had he not been killed or eventually die by his hands (i.e. drugs), Nirvana would have been a modern day Beatles. Incredible song writer and awesome performer. Wish list of shows; Nirvana Unplugged.
Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 5718 Location: Tarrytown, in a Mercedes
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:33 am Post subject:
I was too young to go to this concert.
Jive Turkey wrote:
there are only a handful of moments that changed the course and direction of rock and roll music. seminal, defining moments. Beatles on Sullivan. Hendrix at Monterey. the release of Never Mind The Bullocks. the first time Teen Spirit hit the airwaves.
there's no use comparing Nirvana and Pearl Jam. it's like comparing the Beatles and the Stones. there isn't a comparison. sure, you can argue over who was better musically. but when it comes to which band is more import, it's always the Beatles, and it's always Nirvana. they were game-changers.
and for those who can't stand grunge, i just wonder if you were around when it happened. were you an 18 year old kid in 1991 when Teen Spirit was first played on the radio? did you endure the 80s music scene? grunge hit you in the face like a ton of bricks compared to the crap that was popular at the time. it's hard to explain it to somebody who wasn't there.
the most memorable concert in the history of Dallas:
there's nothing wrong with pedantic songwriters. i like me some jimmy buffet. i won't apologize for that, but i won't claim it is some kind of advancement for music.
my hero is a bad song. i'm picking on it for a reason. it is terrible. it has ten or twelve refrains. maybe more. i've not counted, because i usually get bored and change the channel.
melody? harmony? whatever? musically it is an interesting song. lyrically, it is shit.
I'll agree that My Hero is one of his weaker offerings.
I think Nirvana was going to break up. It looked like it was headed that way before Kurt died. I think he would have done some solo stuff for a while, maybe collaborated with a few artists he respected (J Mascis, Mark Lanegan, etc) for some one-off stuff. He was planning to work with Michael Stipe, but that never happened obviously. Maybe a few years later he would have started another band, but I think it would have had a softer sound than Nirvana...nothing that took the music world by storm like Nirvana did. I just think he was about finished with making radio rock music.
As for the Foo Fighters, I think the first two albums were great, but they got horrible quick. I'm kind of glad Dave wasn't able to contribute much creatively to Nirvana after seeing the direction he's taken the Foo Fighters.
Joined: 13 Jan 2008 Posts: 4402 Location: scenic Addison, TX
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject:
Soul Glo wrote:
I love Nirvana and Foo Fighters. And I don't give a fucking fuck if anyone else does or not.
This. They've got some crappy songs, just like every band does. But overall I like them and if that makes me a troglodyte, so be it.
And I've also heard that Nirvana was close to breakup/hiatus when Cobain died. I think there was a story where a couple guys raped a girl while singing "Polly" and he started to get really disillusioned with their success and fan base. Maybe that's an urban legend, I dunno.
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 2705 Location: knoxville
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject:
I agree with Hayden regarding the Foo Fighters. 'Down in the Park' is the only song I like by them, the rest of their music is mediocre IMO.
I think Nirvana would have had a Dylan type career in the longterm (or rather Cobain).
I also recall hearing Cobain describing his 'sound' as a copy of the Pixies.
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